Living Abroad - Share your experiences

Sorry in advance for the novel. Continuation from the following thread

Motorsports abroad thread

With apologies for the delay, I wanted to start a thread where folks can either share their experiences living in a country different from their place of birth (wording to accommodate our non-US friends) , or ask questions about locations they might like to move someday. Extra emphasis and appreciation for first-hand experience, rather than repetition of internet rumors.

My own example (written mostly stream of consciousness):

I lived in Australia just prior to entering high school. This was around 20 years ago, so my apologies for anything that is out of date. I try to keep up with a few friends in Perth and Melbourne, but have not been back in a while.

Our living situation: My dad was asked to go over for a new project startup for his international company. He was basically overseeing construction and startup, and training his Aussie counterpart. His visa was good for the amount of time that required, once the Australian contingent was trained, he was expected to head home. We were able to briefly extend this (I think for 1 month) for the sake of taking a holiday to Port Douglas/Cairns and Sydney. We had a condo in Melbourne, with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, and a small living room/kitchen combo. Our family car was a Ford Escort hatchback that my dad took to work everyday. The condo was semi-fancy, the equivalent of any number of US young professional buildings with workout center, and a small pool on the roof, which we all thought was neat. I split a small-ish bedroom with my two sisters, but our family is pretty practical and get along well, so everyone made it work. Big difference from a USA house with individual bedrooms for everybody and mountains of space. We had just enough to feel luxurious, because we had options: if someone was watching tv or hanging our in the living room, you could go to a bedroom, if a bathroom was occupied, you had a spare at least. It was about 1/4-1/3 the size of our US home.

It took about a week and a half to fully adjust to the time change. We spent a lot of nights up watching Letterman and Leno re-runs at 2am, which in hindsight may not be good for young kids. After that, it was fine.

We walked. Everywhere. Miles and miles and miles. It was quite enjoyable once everyone got used to it, but it is odd to go and shop for a full grocery order without a car. Which leads to our first cultural disconnect: My mom had walked us all to the grocery store while my dad was at work, and we had 8-10 bags to stock up the new apartment, with the plan being we'd all carry 2-3 home. The cashier asked if we'd like our groceries delivered. "Um, sure....how does that work?" Well, you leave a key, and a runner will drop the lot off to your house. We left a key and continued our day, while a random stranger let themselves in, put the dry goods on the counter, put the milk in the fridge, left the key on the table, and locked the door behind themselves. At the time that was earth-shattering, but we grew to accept most people were downright honest. It's not just that it's OK to do. It's the thought of a stranger stealing something or messing with your home being utterly absurd to the folks we talked to that really started us appreciating the culture shift. Jim Jeffries does a bit on airport security from an Aussie perspective that sums this up pretty well, I wish I could play it on constant repeat in Philly airport TSA lines. This also translated over to personal responsibility....there was VASTLY less litigation and liability risk, so you could do awesome things. The playground I took my sisters to had a feature called a "Flying Fox", basically a 200' zipline that you climbed a pole, grabbed the handlebars, and were off. "What if you fall?????" Don't let go, you won't fall, will you? "What if I drop and hurt my leg?" Best get to the hospital then. "What if someone got killed????" Well, they probably won't ride it again. Completely inconceivable in the US these days. I think this is starting to change to something more similar to the US these days from what my friends tell, which is too bad. Another case of personal responsibility (admittedly pre-911 days): We were flying Quantas from Melbourne to Sydney on a 737, and the crew realized we were the only kids on the flight. The captain invited us up to check out the cockpit, my sisters weren't that interested, but I was completely captivated. I got to ride in the flight engineer's jumpseat for landing, AND got to shut down the plane. (If there's a chance that can be traced back to anyone and they get in trouble, then I made the whole thing up as a child's wacky story). So to sum up: more honesty, less litigation, fantastic combo.

That being said, things were much more expensive over there. For a given salary, it was all about twice as expensive (real estate, meals, blue jeans, legos-ha! the things you remember). If you're relocating from the US, you don't really realize how far our salaries go in this country.

Regarding the things that people believe on the internet:

-The entirety of the country's wildlife is not trying to kill you. If you avoid the Outback, you'll miss 90% of it. That being said, when we were in Sydney, there were days the beaches were closed because 20-30' saltwater crocs had been spotted. They put out LOTS of notice to that fact. If you don't want to get eaten it's pretty easy to avoid, but being willfully ignorant can bite you pretty hard. Literally . We went to other places besides the beach those days and it was fine.

-In the US, either Democrats or Republicans will joke about fleeing the country to Canada or Australia for some reason if their candidate loses. Neither country is USA-lite, or particularly a paradise to our country's right or left. There are things that will drive both crazy. If you're a lefty, their immigration policy is quite strict. They are currently in the news for maintaining an offshore prison for people coming to the country illegally. Imagine if the US did that to Cuban refugees. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying it is different. When I was there it was certain outspoken Muslim Imams (or Caliphs, I can't remember Sunni or Shia). There was talk of making Sharia law supreme over Australian law in large Muslim communities, as has happened elsewhere, as well as certain other radical proclamations. In a couple of cases, the offenders had dual citizenship (the one that comes to mind was Aussie/Saudi I believe?), and they were politely but firmly told to leave the country. More recently, there has been a push to automatically renounce the citizenship of any Australian joining radical groups abroad. If you're a righty, don't take the above as tacit endorsement of Republican platforms...after Port Arthur, gun rights were CONSIDERABLY restricted. And rather quickly. You can still purchase and keep a bolt-action rifle, particularly if you live on a farm or have another valid reason (see again, Outback, things trying to eat you, etc.), but keeping your AR15 in your closet for protection downtown is not going to happen. The common theme seems to be that when there is a crisis, they take action. Right or wrong, things get dealt with. Again, no judgement from me on its validity, but it is a BIG change. If you're whining about your political candidate not winning on Facebook (D or R!) as reason to leave the country, I can 100% guarantee they wouldn't want you anyway.

-Population. This is a population map of the US and Australia (319 million people vs. 23 million people, on a similar sized landmass), note the scale differences:

It's a little easier to spread out and not feel the crush of humanity. For someone who idolizes NYC as the center of the universe, stick to Melbourne, Perth, or Sydney. For someone who enjoys owning some acreage in the US Midwest and not being on top of your neighbors...well, there's the rest of the country.

Apologies for all the rambling. I've had a couple beers after a stressful couple of weeks at work. If anyone has any questions about things I've missed, happy to post a follow-up. As I briefly mentioned in the motorsports thread, I actually looked into going back after I was out of college and on my own. .
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To continue the discussion, would someone care to chime in on living in the United Kingdom? I've spent probably ~8 weeks total there, and would love to take a 2-3 year work assignment if I could talk my employer into it to more fully experience the country. Of particular appeal to me during my limited stay was:

-Civility (or at least the veneer of such). My experience going to the pub with work colleagues was we'd all argue quite emphatically, but no one was trying to talk over one another either. It was an honest to god, back and forth, give and take, DISCUSSION!!!

-Most people know how to drive, and how to walk. As a speeder in both cases, I appreciate this. I about died laughing while riding the escalator out of a deep Metro station, and while all the locals kept a very clear avenue for those in a rush, the tourists didn't. I witnessed a rather self absorbed group of tourists get asked to move over to let faster folks by, and after they said, "No, we're fine here, mind your own business!" the entire crowd around them chimed in to let them know the rules applied to everyone. This should be implemented world-wide tomorrow.

-My general impression of costs is that everything costs the same (decent pub meal is $10 in the US, 10 pounds in the UK), but the conversion means it's really 40-50% more...is that others experience? Wages also seem to be a bit lower.

Ahh how times have changed in Australia, unfortunately. Over the years alot of the trust and honesty has disappeared, and we've done our best to try and become a pack of litigious wankers...

Outside of the major cities, its still pretty down to earth and the relaxed aussie Larrikin attitude is still alive and well, for now. Unfortunately, it seems to be considered unfashionable and embarrassing to have that really stereotypical aussie way of speaking and looking at things these days.

All that said, its awesome to hear how outsiders have viewed their time living here, it seems to make a lasting impression on alot of those that have spent time here.

As for the salties closing a Sydney beach?, Sorry mate, I think your recollection may be a tad off. We don't get crocks this far south. It would have been Cairns or Port Douglas. Otherwise it would have been Sharks if it was Sydney.

In reply to Flynlow:

I lived in the U.K. For over a decade. Your impression about the prices is correct, wages are lower and taxes are higher. I liked living there - it felt more like home to me than Germany (where I was born) ever did. I lived in London for a while but the moved away into the country. If I ever go back I'd probably either move to the Southwest (Bristolish) or up to Scotland.

daeman wrote: As for the salties closing a Sydney beach?, Sorry mate, I think your recollection may be a tad off. We don't get crocks this far south. It would have been Cairns or Port Douglas. Otherwise it would have been Sharks if it was Sydney.

Entirely possible. That was our vacation month, and we were on the move constantly. Traveled all up and down the coast. Definitely crocs, not sharks.

And my point stands regarding the warnings. The beach was very well marked. Ignore the warnings at your peril

I spent about 9 months in Saudi Arabia a while back. If you enjoy driving at absurd speeds (no real enforcement of any speed limits as far as I ever saw) and CHEAP gas (something like a nickel a gallon at the time) it was something. OTOH, the close talking locals needed to be taught personal space rules. If you crashed at high speed, they simply left your wreck there in the side of the road as a warning to others.... The gold market was kind of cool. Very few thieves in a country where getting caught stealing meant the loss of a hand (good rule IMHO).

Camels wander everywhere and we're enough of a nuisance that the local authorities put chastity belts on them. That was a little odd.

The scenery could leave a bit to be desired. One day I stood atop my ambulance (101" tall) and scanned the horizon with 9X binoculars. And in a full 360• circuit I didn't see anything. Not a road, stream, hill, shrub, tree, building, animal, fence, human, NOTHING. An ant dropped on a billiard table would at least see the bumpers in the distance. I was in the center of NOTHING.

I've never felt a desire to go back.

Born in Arizona, moved to Puerto Rico at 4, moved to Canada at 14, moved to SD at 23, Moved to Nigeria at 27, moved back to Canada at 32. So between moves and work based travel I have had a pretty good peek at the rock we live in. I learned that I prefer the lesser populated areas. Not the outback, but more like SD or Montana.

The bottom line is that people is people and all trying to do the best they can within the local realities. Those realities tend to be political or environmental. The happiest children I ever saw were in villages deep in the Nigerian delta; those kids did not have a clue that they had nothing, so they had everything.

Even though I am seriously considering giving up my US citizenship due to the annual fee to maintain it, I will mentally be an American for the rest of my life. If I had one wish, it would be that all Americans could step out of the fishbowl and see the nation from the eyes of the rest of the world.

I would like to hear from our Caribbean members. (Gameboy, you listening?)

Born in Japan, lived in Europe (Germany and Britain) while growing up. Been back as a tourist quite a few times.

Boxhead Tim has the UK right-- higher cost of living, lower wages. That's balanced off by lots of social services, though many of those aren't what they used to be because they haven't been sustainable.

When I lived in Europe Americans weren't well liked in many circles and were greeted rudely, if at all. I remember sitting in a French restaurant and having the rudest waiter in the world. He even scraped the plates at the table, which was a huge insult and obviously done because we were American. I can't say that some Americans didn't deserve that sort of treatment because of the attitude they brought with them, but it made it tough for the rest of us. We also made some great friends when there was a mutual effort to get to know one another.

I think the trick is to take the people and places as they are-- don't whine about what you are missing from home or how the burgers are so much better and the petrol so much cheaper in the States, or how you bought your first car at 16, blah, blah, blah. I sat in a bar in Austria once on a ski trip that included a LOT of Texans. One of our group was telling a local that foreigners didn't like Americans because they were jealous. And the guy went on and on about his bass boat, his truck, and his 3 bedroom home. I mean, these folks had Mozart, Salzburg, Vienna, for God's sake, and this Texan was bragging about his bass boat.

I took a job straight out of college that based me out of Hong Kong, and allowed me to travel to most of the Southeast Asian Countries as well as Mainland China on corporate dime. I jumped around a lot for 3 years, got to see some amazing places and some extreme poverty stricken places.

It was an unforgettable experience and something that I look back upon fondly, although I do admit that I couldn't live out there long-term. I'd be happy to expand upon my thoughts and feelings throughout, but I'm tied up at the moment with work and don't have enough time for a novel.

I will say though- as a stranger in a foreign country, smiling and the phrase 'thank you' are universal signals that everyone understands. Be courteous, smile a lot, say thank you a lot, keep an open mind. If you do those things, you will almost be guaranteed to have an enjoyable experience regardless of circumstance.

In reply to NOHOME:

Was it your career that took you around the world as an adult? What did you parents do that they could move you from Arizona to Puerto Rico to Canada?

In reply to golfduke:

What did you do as a recent college grad that allowed you to travel around Asia for work?

If you haven't noticed, I'm more interested in what people do that allows them to travel than I am in what they experience while they travel, as everyone experiences something different.

I've only been to Mexico and Canada, and only lived in Pennsylvania and Arizona. I'd love to live in the Caribbean some day (Puerto Rico) but I have no idea what kind of work I would do there.

I used to live at the beach over the summers during college. I recommend it to all you youngsters out there.

So that I don't have to repeat myself you can hear about the motorsports and economic aspects of living in Barbados in the originally referenced thread.

To finish covering those topics I'd like to make clear that while most things are quite expensive, automotive things are stupidly expensive. Car parts are typically around 2x US retail and new cars are at least 2x US retail for the cheapest ones. Electronics not strictly related to general-purpose computing suffer from similarly punishing duties. And to pay for all this? If you can make $20k a year around here you're doing well, if you can pull $30k you're doing REALLY well. Especially if you're only working one job. Real estate is pretty expensive, a 2-storey American-style house with a modest yard would run $250k-$500k, a 1-storey flat would be about half of that.

To cover street driving, most of the streets off the main highways are thin pothole-ridden messes but the main highways are in decent shape and speeding enforcement is very light. Of course if there's any traffic to hold you up you won't have the opportunity to drive fast, because the average local drives slow as hell and they love to buddy up and cruise next to each other whenever there's an opportunity to hold up multi-lane highways. Unfortunately drunk driving is even more lightly enforced. Traffic is generally heavy, took me more than an hour to get to work this morning, roughly 7 miles driving distance.

Now onto other things.

People: Nice and friendly and crime is pretty low, but the national pasttime is partying, socializing, and getting wasted (sometimes while watching a sport), so if you're not into that you'll be the odd one out.

Society is sharply stratified. Hyper-rich local large business owners at the top (mostly British-looking white, who are rare anywhere else), then hyper-rich foreigners, small somewhat racially diverse rich upper class, mostly-black middle & lower classes (politicians come from upper and middle class), then poor white-ish people ("redlegs," that's a socially acceptable term but there are others) and Rastas at the bottom (because apparently no society can go without a group to systematically discriminate against). A quick backstory, the large business owners filled the vacuum left by plantation owners when almost all of them left on emancipation, the black population is descended from slaves and the redlegs are descended from indentured servants. Inequality is severe, again not as bad as Jamaica, but bad and getting noticeably worse in the last few years. Mostly everyone gets along pretty well.

Dating scene: Abysmal IMO. People get married in their mid-20s at the latest. Most local guys dig fat chicks and most women set their goals to suit. It's a small society and not a culturally or ethnically diverse place so there's not much variety out there. If you swing the other way, keep that on the down-low 'cuz Barbados is no more LGBT-friendly than a small town in the South. It's certainly not Jamaica but if you come entirely out of the closet, you'll be discriminated against by most of society and maybe hate-crimed if the wrong person catches you in a dark alley.

Politics: Fiscally further left than Bernie Sanders, socially about as far right as the Republicans...well, the Republicans of a couple years ago at least. Two big parties that are ideologically almost on top of each other (the bigger differences are in who benefits) and a few also-ran third parties, but a surprisingly partisan population anyway, it's kind of funny. Typical small island politics where the politicians do crooked things and everyone knows about it but nothing happens.

Climate/environment: Nice if you can stand the heat and humidity - I can barely tolerate it, if I'm at rest, in front of a fan. Great beaches everywhere and a good bit of nature tourism opportunities. But also a lot of biting insects and the exotic tropical diseases they bring.

Lifestyle/entertainment: All the partying you could want and a decent selection of restaurants. Good scenes for madly expensive sports like motorsports, watersports/sailing, golf, polo, and horse racing. Decent amateur futbol, cycling and cricket scenes. Plenty of local music & arts stuff. We get international racing events and music shows sometimes. But otherwise pretty damn boring.

pheller wrote: In reply to golfduke: What did you do as a recent college grad that allowed you to travel around Asia for work?

Loaded question, haha. A combination of good grades, a weird degree, and 'right place, right time' circumstances really. I graduated with a biochemistry degree, and my school required a senior thesis as part of the program. My thesis was on spectrophometry and how chemical composition determines light wavelength, but also how individual genetics play a much larger role in spectrum visualization than chemical composition.

It turned out that it was a pretty important realization and I was asked to cross-present my thesis at a lunch for fine art students. Through a wierd and convoluted chain of events, my presentation ended up in the hands of the color development lab at The Limited Brands, and a week and 2 trips to Ohio later I was offered a job overseas working for their subsidiary and doing end-line Quality control for their garment dying facilities.

That sort of morphed into full-garment QC, to workforce compliance, and at the end of the whole banana, I was quality director of the Victoria's Secret intimates line. It was a pretty amazing job, but it required unhealthy amounts of travel and work. My lifestyle became destructive due to the stress I put on myself, and I promptly burnt out. They offered me a very lucrative contract to stay, but I just couldn't do it anymore. It's great to say though, that pretty much every article with a VS tag that was produced from 2005-2007 was inspected by me in some way, shape, or form.

Not overseas, but another country... I spent a little over 6 months working down in Chihuahua (city), Chihuahua (state), Mexico. Its an interesting place.

• There was basically zero traffic enforcement.
• Big trucks/buses would often make a left turn from the right-most lane or vice versa. With no warning.
• Speed bumps were not things people slow down for. They were also gigantic. I saw more than one car become airborne when hitting one.
• Vehicle condition ranged from the U.S. equivalent of "beater" (old, but generally working) to much much much worse.
• The standard repair for almost anything was essentially whatever you'd expect from thereifixedit.com. I saw a Jetta driving next to me one morning with the entire exhaust dragging on the ground. I was sure it would break off at any moment, but he dragged it a solid 3 miles before I turned into work and he kept on going. Another morning I saw a pickup truck with no steering wheel and vice grips clamped on the end of the steering shaft. A plant worker bought a Dodge Stratus for like $300, paid a very small amount for repairs on it, and was very happy with it. The B pillar on the left side was noticeably further inboard than it should be, and there was about 300 lbs of bondo on the left side of the car, causing it to squat lower.
• Similarly, preventative maintenance was not really a thing there. The company car I had was proof of that. When some other guys I worked with arrived from U.S., the brake pads were completely gone. The backing plates were almost worn through. Sparks shot everywhere whenever you tried to stop.
• Drinks were all bottled (no cans), and they were all pop-top (no twist off). People there could open a twist off with anything. Lighter, seatbelt, coin, etc. I never got the hang of this.
• Drinking while driving was legal. Drunk driving was not, but I think their standard for "drunk" is basically "passed out". Also see point no. 1.
• The hot dogs were berkeleying amazing. No idea what's in them. Bacon wrapped, steamed buns, great toppings. Mmm. I still top my hot dogs with Parmesan cheese to this day, and people often look at me funny.
• Names for restaurants were interesting. You always knew what you were getting. Literal translation of some to English would result in this: "Tommy's tacos", "Pork Sandwich", "Charcoal grilled hamburger"
• People there had a strong interest in UFOs
• The class divide was large. The plant CEO where I worked was building his new house which was on par with your typical metro area McMansion for around 500-600k. I think he was paying cash (financing there was a nightmare). Workers in his plant were making 80 pesos/day for a 12 hour shift, which was around $7.50.

pheller wrote: In reply to NOHOME: Was it your career that took you around the world as an adult? What did you parents do that they could move you from Arizona to Puerto Rico to Canada?

We moved a lot as kids. Born in Arizona. Moved out at two weeks old. Puerto Rico was house move #11 at age 4. Dad worked for an international company called EcoLab and was in charge of the Caribbean and south American territory. Then Canada and Alaska then Europe.

My stint in Nigeria was after doing an engineering degree in South Dakota. Ironic, but moving to SD was very much like living in a foreign country for me since I had no USA experience! All my American friends consider me a Canadian.

The Nigerian job was doodlebugging for 7 weeks in the swamp and 3 weeks break to anywhere in the world we wanted to go. So I got around a bit. Rio is interesting after 7 weeks in a swamp!

The current job has seen me all over Asia; mostly Japan and China. Also a lot of Europe although I got a bunch of that Euro travel bug out of my system after dad was transferred to run the European office in 1980.

Edit: If you are looking for a future that involves travel, it is out there, you just need to go looking. Truth is that it wears thin and companies are always looking for the next person to run through the gristmill of foreign travel. Since I am fluent in Spanish, I am starting to think the next career should involve South America in some capacity.

I lived in Hungary for 4-years.

Compared to my experiences in the US

• Cost of gas is double, but cost of living is about half

• wages are lower there but people tend to value what they have more

• Much greater feeling of community (like "Cheers" but for a whole city. Complete with wine and gulyas festivals a few times a year)

• much much slower pace of life. Less emphasis on being as successful as possible, and more about being happy with a decent living wage.

• lots more walking (see slower pace of life)

• way way way less violent crime, and more of a feeling of security (I'll never forget when I ran into a group of rebellious looking teens drinking/sneaking beers in a dark alley. They said "excuse me, sir" and made room for me and my wife to walk through)

• corruption in government and laziness in dealing with law enforcement etc was much higher.

• quality of medical care was a lower, but wasn't so bad I'd was ever concerned with the care we were getting (plus we made enough to have access to private care)

I miss it a lot and have made a few attempts at going back. My wife and I are determined to move back to Europe again, and even have a 10year plan/binder that should allow us to buy a place overseas and take up residence.

Regardless of location, if you get the chance to move overseas for work I strongly suggest going. I consider my time in Hungary to be some of the best times of my life

Cheers!

Lived in Berlin, Germany for 7 months for brewing school. I can't speak to what wages were like. I was rather surprised at how comparable cost of living was to Sacramento, CA where I'd recently been. Like eating out was, take the cost it would be in Sacramento, and just make that Euros ($10 meal? 10eu meal), but then you don't have to pay tax or gratuity. Things were a tad more expensive than Sacramento, but significantly less expensive than they'd be in a swanky, hip city like San Francisco, LA, New York, etc.

Cost of gas was more, but except for a 1-week vacation, I just got around everywhere on trains. I loved being able to grab a beer at the corner shop and drink it on the train on my way to wherever I was going. Then drink as much as I felt like and take the train home.

City was cleaner and felt a lot safer than I have in U.S. cities.

The biggest culture shock was getting used to not having the background level of people who do customer service being overly friendly. The cashier at the grocery store was not going to engage in casual conversation. They didn't know you and weren't going to become friends with you, so they did not pretend to be your friend. At first this was weird, but I eventually learned to appreciate it. If someone actually was nice, it meant something.

daeman wrote: Ahh how times have changed in Australia, unfortunately. Over the years alot of the trust and honesty has disappeared, and we've done our best to try and become a pack of litigious wankers...

Maaan, I hope not. I've never had a bad time in Australia, and based on those experiences I generally hold Aussies in pretty high regard (plus the women down there are absolutely stunning!)

If it's anything to ya, I didn't see any dishonesty or experience malice of any sort on my last visit to Queensland AND I found some pretty awesome driving roads!

I did find the beer to be a bit expensive though. Can you see about fixing that before my next visit?

Cheers!

Define "Living" abroad. Does being billeted for two weeks in the Hotel Santin in Aviano, Italy count? If so, I have some nifty stories about things that may, or may not, have happened that I and my fellow aircraft weapons troops from the 425th Fighter Squadron may, or may not, have committed, er done.

Hungary Bill wrote:

daeman wrote: Ahh how times have changed in Australia, unfortunately. Over the years alot of the trust and honesty has disappeared, and we've done our best to try and become a pack of litigious wankers...

Maaan, I hope not. I've never had a bad time in Australia, and based on those experiences I generally hold Aussies in pretty high regard (plus the women down there are absolutely stunning!) If it's anything to ya, I didn't see any dishonesty or experience malice of any sort on my last visit to Queensland AND I found some pretty awesome driving roads! I did find the beer to be a bit expensive though. Can you see about fixing that before my next visit? Cheers!

Perhaps its more about perspective? I've grown up here, so subtle changes to how we interact are probably more noticeable and seem like a big deal to me. On the whole it's still awesome, and I don't think there's anywhere else in the world I'd want to call home on a permanent basis.

There's definitely a big difference in attitude between country and city people in terms of attitude, and me being country raised but spending the last decade in Sydney may also contribute to my perceived drop in trust and honesty.

The beer is getting beyond a joke... Or I'm just getting older hahaha. Tell you what, next time you're down here let me know and maybe I can shout you a couple.

I'm living in Western Australia (almost 3 years) near Perth. Crime is high here compared to my experience in my travels around North America.

If you run your car out of fuel and leave it on the side of the road for more than a few hours, you'll be lucky if only all the windows are smashed out. More likely, parts will be stolen off it and then it will be torched.

"King hits" are a problem, where drunk over aggro testosterone fueled men nearly kill each other (in some cases they succeed).

On the other hand, the climate can't be beat, and it seems that heading out of the suburbs gets you to a great culture.

Lots to see, beautiful beaches, and a very obviously relatively young nation in many ways compared to Europe. Over all, not better or worse, but different.

WildScotsRacing wrote: Define "Living" abroad. Does being billeted for two weeks in the Hotel Santin in Aviano, Italy count? ...

Interesting lead in, all of my overseas time was done under military conditions and my interactions with the locals vary wildly.

Lived in Germany for 3 years in the early 90's, mostly on the economy. I was broke all of it and had a great time. I did adapt to the european culture of buying a day's worth of groceries instead of buying in bulk. I tend toward that now but the missus does the shopping. Got to see the Porsche Museum and factory in 1993. In the days before social media and even the internet it was amazing.

Equador near and around Manta for a few months. Limited interaction but great peaple. Hardworking and enterprising. Got to travel to some of the little villages in the hills, breathtaking and the cathedrals are amazing. Most gearhead stuff was just Pep Boys style add ons to personalize their vehicles.

Eritrea and Ethiopia for 6 months. I never made it to Addis, but saw some of the coastal areas. Mostly painful poverty and the rich were super rich. Very start contrast. The most amazing Itialian food I have ever had, including my time in Europe. I walked by the Fiat Tagliero Building 100 times, I thought it was really cool and I have a stack of pictures buried on an old computer somewhere. But I didn't realize the historical significance of it. In reference to the story about Chihuahua repairs, the repairs of these people was incredible, like Cuba levels of skill and creativity. The nation was on a self-imposed embargo, as they would not allow any funds to leave the country, so parts were rare for anything. I missed it, but there was a race downtown of Fiat 500s once. But outside of the main cities, "roads" was a very loose term.

Not to steal anything from GameboyRMH, but I lived in Curacao twice really, but I was surprised to find a gearhead scene there. There is a NHRA Legal Dragstrip there. Mostly extended wheelbase bikes cruising the island, but on race weekends the hardware was impressive. Some serious JDM and big American stuff. Very inclusive community, they were polite enough if you established a common interest, but you always knew you were an outsider. European attitudes on customer service, which was fine if you expected it and planned accordingly. But you'd still get the whiney Americans used to Chili's levels of attention. Particularly at a coffee shop I frequented, I appreciated being left alone. The wait staff was very good when you got their attention, but they didn't hover. Best seafood I have ever had. Amazing European-levels of cuisine pride prepared with a Caribbean flair. You could spend a lot but didn’t have too. Lots of petty crime, perhaps some of the worst I ever experienced. turn your back on anything for less than a minute and it was gone. Very little violent crime, so I never felt in danger.

United Arab Emirates. One of the best kept secrets on the travel globe. It is not KSA, not even close. Completely different mentality, very open and accepting culture if you were willing to accept certain restrictions on being a westerner. You just don't wear shorts (I did and no one ever said anything, but I could see it made folks uncomfortable so I stopped), practice some modesty and just keep your noise down (also something I learned by gauging reactions nearby). If you want it, like anything, it can be had there, the whole place is stunning. Almost everything is the best, the biggest or the most modern. I stopped snapping pictures of exotic cars after a week because they are so commonplace. When I went to the F1 race, a Veyron parked next to my leased Toyota. Like in one space like a normal car. You can drink and drink well, every hotel has a bar. But if you want great ethnic food, its there too. The trick is to find the local populace of the cuisine of your desire. All of the labor is performed by third country nationals (aka TCNs) so if you want great Indian food, ask them where they go to eat. Tandori House in Abu Dhabi for example. Because the market is laborers, the food at these places is usually affordable. But the racetracks...oh my the racetracks. Autdrome in Dubai and Yas Island in Abu Dhabi. Just amazing places to go. Yas Island would have 5K/10k fun runs on nights they weren't using the track. Lots of local club events, and a dozen arrive and drive series from Little Nissan cup cars to WSRs and everything in between. In a local recreation center, a FIA certified go kart track with rental carts well beyond anything we get here. I was addicted; Daytime run Night run

There was another go kart track at the Autodrome in Dubai and a decent one at Yas Island. Yas Island also had a full NHRA dragstrip as well as a variety of driving experiences from a Drift School to a lead follow AMG Mercedes or open wheel lead follow driving experience. Surrounding the track was any number of high end eateries with a great view or at least cool memrobilia. My favorite was Diablito, because their rooftop patio offered a great view of the back turns of the track and the harbor. Don't forget of course, Ferrari World.

Jordan was surprisingly friendly. They are not blessed with the natural resources you see elsewhere in the region, so they make up for it with a solid work ethic. I was expecting a lot more sparse an experience, but its a beautiful place with incredible history. If you are even remotely religious, take the trip; Moses grave, the Baptisim site, Jordan river, dead sea as well a Petra and a host of other historical sites that will remind you how young America is as a nation and even culture. Really really good roads once you are out of the city. The traffic in the city is exactly what people picture 5 cars fighting for space in room for 3 and the biggest one wins.

Someone made the point earlier, but a smile and open hands are universal. I do believe most gearheads are the same everywhere. I bet the same can be said for stamp collectors or quilters, but once you establish that common interest, most are very friendly.

Looking back this is a very rambling post, I apologize if its too long. I am just off work for a few weeks and killing time.