LM: turntable and associated audio equipment

I'm ready to get back into vinyl. So I want a turntable, speakers and receiver (amplifier?). I will want a CD player too, as I still own a ton of those. I'd also like to have the ability to push TV audio through the same system, and include a center channel for dialogue.

I am not looking to spend tens of thousands of dollars but would like to assemble some nice pieces. Happy to buy used too, meaning I'm fine perusing FBMP and other sites to keep an eye out for deals.

To start, my focus is on turntable and speakers. What would be a good turntable? And what do I connect that too? And what would be a pair of good speakers?

More important is going to be making sure that the receiver has a phono input, or the record player has a phono preamp built in. Alternatively, get a separate phono preamp. 
 

Recent-ish relevant threads: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/so-we-ve-had-a-few-discussions-regarding-music-on-vinyl-but-what-about-schiit-audio/260296/page1/

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/help-me-get-started-with-vinyl/187731/page1/
 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/record-player-for-daughter-what-to-buy/248333/page1/

For speakers, build your own!

Or keep an eye out for B&W, Thiel, Magnepan if you have the space to let them breathe, Mission, Martin Logan, Monitor Audio, Phase Tech, Canton...

This is by no means an exhaustive list, and many will be expensive, but if you're watching FBMP for awhile you'll come across some deals.

Polk Audio and Klipsch range from mass produced and OK to vintage gold to modern and really pretty decent. Same with Infinity.

Oh, avoid Bang and Olufsen turntables. Proprietary cartridge (needle) that is worth more than the entire turntable. 

If you're on a college student budget, be sure to hit your local thrift stores.  My son (in whom I seem to have inflicted a passion for vintage audio) has scored a decent pair of JBL speakers, a Denon CD player, and an Onkyo receiver (old enough to have a "phono" input) for less than 30 bucks each purchase.  The stuff looks and sounds very nice.  Not exactly Magnepan or B & O quality, but very listenable.

Most other sources of vintage audio will charge considerably higher prices.  The downside with thrift stores is that you will have to shop around and be patient.  The better stuff doesn't come in that often and won't stick around very long.

Edit:  The Overnight Sensations speaker kit that mtn references above really do sound good for the money.  This is how mine turned out:

Thanks for the input so far. I'm catching up on the threads mtn shared and learning a lot already!

I'm assuming you want good value/$$. But where on that curve do you want to fall? Low budget that is still quality (~$600)? Highest quality before you start running into diminishing returns (up to $5k)? Somewhere in the middle? Roughly, what is your budget range?

How audiophile do you want to get vs just having tunes?

Are there any special features that are important to you? E.g. - Auto changing sources, remote control, wireless play, etc.?

Couple universal thoughts:

Being able to play TV and CD through a stereo is easy and will not cost much (or any) extra. It just requires a receiver, which you want anyway.

Speaker placement and acoustic treatment are one of the biggest factors in sound quality. A mid budget setup well laid out will blow the pants off of the most expensive equipment laid out poorly in a bad room. For that reason, drop your desire for a center channel. It's either a wasteful gimmick, or a crutch to make up for a poorly laid out setup.

I strongly recommend a 2.1 (or 2 +1) setup - A pair of stereo mains with a good quality subwoofer. The mains give you a full stereo sound image. Bass is not perceived as directional. Offloading bass production to a dedicated sub also makes it easier for your mains to produce clearer mids and highs. There is merit in a 2.2 setup (2 mains and 2 subs), but the second sub mostly makes accoustic tuning/balancing simpler and easier, but doesn't really improve sound production.

Any more speakers than that (including a center channel) is like adding more adjustable suspension components to a car. If you know what you're doing and take the time, you *can* get something that performs at its peak. But if you don't, you're more likely to adjust things wrong and make it handle worse. Certainly starting off, you're better with fewer variables to worry about. Properly positioning a pair of stereo mains is the equivalent of getting a good alignment on a car.

Similarly for turntables, proper balancing and alignment of the arm and cartridge are important and not terribly difficult.

In reply to Beer Baron :

1. Budget - Somewhere in the middle. I'm okay spending a few thousand on a decent set up. Obviously happy to spend much less too. While I would like quality gear, my ear isn't trained nearly well enough to go crazy.
2. Special features - Not looking for a bunch of bells & whistles. I would like to connect a CD player and would like to be able to send TV audio through the system.
3. Speaker placement - We have a dedicated (relatively small room) with a TV on the wall and a low, long console table underneath it. The gear will live there. And I don't need a center channel for dialogue? I was under the impression that a center channel was desirable.
4. 2.1 system - I like this idea as I love hip hop and rap. Having a good bass source would be great.
   
   I like the idea of buying used/vintage from a reuse perspective but don't know how much good gear would be available locally.

In reply to mtn :

Thanks for the links. I just read all of the threads and found Tuna's help me get started with vinyl especially helpful. 

In reply to dyintorace :

Speakers and phono cartridges have the most impact on sound quality. Receivers/amplifiers tend to have the least.

Any component receiver will let you run the TV and CD player through it. I would look for one with a phono preamp, but you can get a standalone preamp. This is a good place to go used, although you're less likely to get a remote. If buying new, I'd probably look at Sony or any other big name but not "audiophile" brand.

Turntables - lots of options. Look for one with a cuing arm and an adjustable counterweight. I would get something used (preferably belt drive) with the ability to upgrade, and then spend money on a nice new cartridge. I'd want to pay $200+ for that.

Speakers - I'd get a pair of "bookshelf" mains and a 12" sub. Lots of good brands. I'd highly recommend Klipsch, SVS, or KEF (in order of increasing price/quality). If you like Hip Hop, I'd lean strongly in the direction of SVS, particularly for the subwoofer.

If I were doing work and wanted to get the maximum for the most modest price, I'd start with the build-your-own bookshelf speakers linked above paired with an SVS SB-1000, then get a vintage receiver and a nice used turntable of FBMP, and replace the cartridge with probably a ~$200 cartridge like an Ortofon 2m Blue or this Audio-Technica.

Thanks BB! For bookshelf speakers, are the 'build your own' significantly better than these? I saw them linked in one of the other threads.

Beer Baron said:

Any component receiver will let you run the TV and CD player through it.

A lot of TV's these days don't have analog output, and not all receivers and no vintage receivers can process the anything else. There are easy workarounds, but it's something to know. There are also some pretty decent T amps now too, including 2.1 amps with 3 channels, adjustable sub frequency and output. I'd probably go that route before I went vintage unless it's true quality vintage gear

Peabody said:

Beer Baron said:

Any component receiver will let you run the TV and CD player through it.

A lot of TV's these days don't have analog output, and not all receivers and no vintage receivers can process the anything else. There are easy workarounds, but it's something to know. There are also some pretty decent T amps now too, including 2.1 amps with 3 channels, adjustable sub frequency and output. I'd probably go that route before I went vintage unless it's vintage gear

Being entirely uneducated about such things, what would be a good example of a 2.1 amp with 3 channels?

Most of the stuff from these guys is pretty highly rated in reviews, but keep in mind that the power ratings are very optimistic. You would want a preamp to run a turntable

https://fosiaudio.com/collections/2-1-channel-amplifier/products/fosi-audio-bt30d-pro-bluetooth-5-0-2-1-channel-540w-power-amplifier

It's pretty good beginner equipment, and very budget friendly

The Klipsch RP 600M sounds like a nice option too.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/the-klipsch-reference-premiere-600m-is-the-audiophiliac-speaker-of-the-year/

dyintorace said:

Thanks BB! For bookshelf speakers, are the 'build your own' significantly better than these? I saw them linked in one of the other threads.

I don't know the details on those different kits. If I had to guess - they're both kits, and the one you linked here is more expensive, so I would expect it to be better.

The Klipsch you linked would probably be better.

For amps, again I don't know nitty-gritty on brands, but you probably don't need to worry too much there. Just look for pretty much any "X.1 Channel" amplifier from a brand with a recognizable name (E.g. Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc.). Look at the back for at least as many channel inputs as things you are likely to hook up to it - ideally with a phono input. I'd probably also look for HDMI and Optical inputs.

You could get something like this Sony unit and a separate phono preamp. This is not an endorsement of either of these products as specifically the best models. Pretty much anything in this class will serve you well.

I don't know much about them (my last turntable purchase was in the 1970s) but lately I've read about turntables with USB connections.  They can be connected right to your computer for playback and also to allow for making digital recordings.  Some of them are very reasonably priced and also highly rated for their performance.

and i'm over here happy as berkeley just listening to music on my phone.  when i'm feeling especially rowdy, i bluetooth it to my LG soundbar / sub combo.  :-)

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Congratulations. You have come onto a forum of people discussing how they enjoy collecting, modifying, improving, and driving sportscars to tell us that your automatic Camry is a practical and reliable car.

Beer Baron said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Congratulations. You have come onto a forum of people discussing how they enjoy collecting, modifying, improving, and driving sportscars to tell us that your automatic Camry is a practical and reliable car.

yeah, but sometimes i shift it manually.

In reply to Beer Baron :

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I sent you a PM as well.

There is a reuse store in town so I'm going to make a trip there to see if they have anything that fits the bill.

dyintorace said:

Thanks BB! For bookshelf speakers, are the 'build your own' significantly better than these? I saw them linked in one of the other threads.

Not familiar too much with TTs (but I do have a nice Technics that I cant complain about), however in my living area I am running the Fosi P3 to a Yamaha A100a into some JBL L46 (or 4412a depending on my mood). I am really happy with all the equipment in that setup, and was really impressed with the little Fosi unit for the cost. 

As far as speaker kits, I have had those, and a couple different kits from parts express. They are not bad, but not my favorite. I prefer something using the DA175 woofer with that tweeter, such as in these links. Currently in my office I am running the DA175 and DC28F in a ~2cuft enclosure (I spent a lot of time playing with this setup and can send the crossover specs to you if you want to try it) powered by a Yamaha CR-640 and its perfect for that space.

Building your own can mean a lot of different things, designing your own from scratch is much more difficult, expensive, and time consuming than using and modifying existing (known good) plans. 

http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html

https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/karma-indignia/

Either way, even with a $$$$ budget, the kits will be the best bang for the buck audio quality wise, unless you score something great used. But I would say, if your just getting into it, dont rush out to spend all your budget, start small and decide what you like and dont like, and go from there. Either buy some used speakers or build your own and modify to try different things. A reasonably priced component receiver with phono in is the Denon S760 from costco (on sale in store for $300) is a great start. 

Tangentially, I have been enjoying this guys approach, but have not yet ponied up the $$$ to try any of his builds... 

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm#PAGE_INDEX

I have a Sony GX9es receiver, Pro-ject carbon debut turn table (just Googled, Jeez they've gone up) and until we moved Altec 606 speakers. The seller didn't know what he had and I got them at a great price. I got the receiver a few years ago because it's analog and vintage, etc., with a built in phono pre-amp. I can run everything through it. I wanted a kind of raw/crisp/edgy sound as I listen to mostly 60's-70's rock. The Altecs certainly delivered. I miss'm. They took up too much floor space here though. You might look at vintage audio equipment and find a good deal.

I will admit that a big part of why I'd go vintage on a receiver is just because I love the design and how tactile they are.

I love all the brushed aluminum, the heavy dials, and the switches that give satisfying clicks.

Yeah, there is new stereo equipment that gives a similar sort of experience, but it's all top end stuff that costs thousands and thousands of dollars. If I didn't have one anyway, I'd get a vintage receiver like this just to play with it.

In reply to dyintorace :

I remember seeing some audio stuff there but didn't look too much at it.  Might be able to find a basic receiver that suits your needs.