Look out, Florida residents: Crazy-ass murderer on the loose!

To Katie: I hope you realize this about firearms. The magic "shot in the knee" simply isn't a viable option. I'm a combat veteran and at one time the third best shot in the state of Kentucky. I'll throw in that at 5'9" and 185 I'm not a tiny guy. But if some belligerent hostile is coming at me in my own property I'm sure as berkeley NOT going to allow him the opportunity of a "fair fight". And you don't shoot once and wait for the result, you put two in his chest and one is his head. Having ended a clear/perceived threat honestly I'd be very wary of the remaining members of the hostiles truck.

(Notice, I'm not referring to the dead guy as a "victim". He is a "hostile" until his intentions are clarified and any possible threat to my and mine has been neutralized)

Toyman01 wrote:

aircooled wrote: Guns make stupid more stupider.

Not more stupider, just more permanent. You can also replace the word gun, with all kinds of things.

Guns are nothin' more than power tools.

A power tool, of course, is like a regular tool except it makes it much easier to berkeley things up.

In reply to Knurled:

I learned that lesson with an orbital sander on the side of slab sided car. It made quick work of stripping the paint, but had to spend another two days with a block sander fixing the results of that quick removal.

KyAllroad wrote: To Katie: I hope you realize this about firearms. The magic "shot in the knee" simply isn't a viable option. I'm a combat veteran and at one time the third best shot in the state of Kentucky. I'll throw in that at 5'9" and 185 I'm not a tiny guy. But if some belligerent hostile is coming at me in my own property I'm sure as berkeley NOT going to allow him the opportunity of a "fair fight". And you don't shoot once and wait for the result, you put two in his chest and one is his head. Having ended a clear/perceived threat honestly I'd be very wary of the remaining members of the hostiles truck. (Notice, I'm not referring to the dead guy as a "victim". He is a "hostile" until his intentions are clarified and any possible threat to my and mine has been neutralized)

This. TV and movies always show the bad guys being wounded; in real life it's not that way. If both parties were armed (as in this case) it would be just plain dumb to shoot at the guy's knees. He can still shoot with a blown out knee, assuming the first shooter got lucky enough to actually hit something.

The guy who followed the homeowner was just plain stupid, and stupid hurts. I'm sorry his kids had to see this; as far as the legality? As mentioned that's what the court system is for.

As I think further, the homeowner was under no obligation to do this but it all might have worked out a lot better had he driven to the nearest police station.

In reply to Curmudgeon: I learned that from Woody Woodpecker: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54fyv_bunco-busters_creation

Wally wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: I learned that from Woody Woodpecker: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54fyv_bunco-busters_creation

Yep.

KyAllroad wrote: (Notice, I'm not referring to the dead guy as a "victim". He is a "hostile" until his intentions are clarified and any possible threat to my and mine has been neutralized)

Here it is again, the approaching guy is a "hostile" Maybe he just wanted to talk? Again it was certainly dumb but nowhere near a justification for being killed! If he didn't actually charge the shooter, he wasn't acting too differently than a Jehovah's Witness on a Saturday morning.

In fact one could have driven to the shooter's home behind him by chance, got out of the car in front of the shooter's house, and then walked up to the nearest house first to hand him a copy of The Watchtower and been shot to death in front of his family exactly the same way. Do you see why I consider the shooter to be a dangerous nutbag?

BTW, I haven't seen any source saying the dead guy was armed. Although I agree that shooting to wound doesn't work.

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW, I haven't seen any source saying the dead guy was armed.

But you also have not seen any source saying he wasn't armed either.

Split second decision. Shooter had to decide if there was a risk, and had no knowledge whether or not the crazy guy on his lawn was armed.

You sure you want to take that risk?

GameboyRMH wrote: The shooter is insane and prone to deadly violence...

How did you come to THAT conclusion??

Has a doctor examined him for his sanity? When were the previous incidents that determine the proclivity toward deadly violence?

I respect your passion on this, and understand you have strong feelings, but you are coming to very irrational conclusions based on a biased news article with almost no information in it.

So creepy road rage stalker guy follows you home and charges you. Your wife is in the house and you are not going to send his ass to Hell on a shingle? Guy didn't know if the attacker was armed or not, but who is going to wait to find out. Hell yes he told 911 that he was going to get his gun probably to get the cops to step it up so he didn't have to shoot the dumb bastard. Was hostile attacker guy trying to impress his wife and kids? To me this looks like a clear case of stand your ground. FYI in Colorado he would need to be coming through the front door for a legal.

The horribly biased reporting once again pisses me off.

• Headline: "Road rage victim..." Who says she's not better described as the assailant's wife, or even accomplice?

• Sweet pictures of the nice smiling Hispanic man wearing a tie (who might be a creepy stalker) and his family, compared to mug shots of the man who may have been protecting himself from a stalker on his property.

• "...his wife called 911 claiming that 51 year old Robert Doyle was quote driving like an idiot". That's not true. She didn't say that. She didn't know his age, nor his name, so she certainly didn't say that to the 911 operator.

• "This is the man who shot him, 51 year old Robert Doyle" (or might have been protecting himself from him)

• "When Gonzalez tells 911 he's heading to Doyle's house..." Of course he didn't say that- how would he have known his name?

• At least 3 different 911 calls cleverly edited for maximum effect...

• "Doyle then turned the gun on Gonzalez's wife forcing her, and the children, out of the car..." Maybe. Or maybe Doyle held the other occupants out of concern of potential continuing issues (and it wasn't a car- it was a truck towing a trailer).

It is astounding how thoroughly some reporters work at promoting their own agenda and perspective.

Is it possible they are just that inept??

In reply to Datsun1500:

Actually, he said "My gun's already out, it's cocked and locked".

I don't think we know whether it was in the car or the house (although I'm inclined to agree with you).

SVreX wrote: It is astounding how thoroughly some reporters work at promoting their own agenda and perspective. Is it possible they are just that inept??

Well, it's being talked about, here and probably over dinner tables, so I would say that they aren't that inept and know exactly what they are doing. Make of that what you will.

Forcing the other people out of the car at gun point is what will put this guy in jail. i don't think that's legal. What do the armchair lawyers of grm think?

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: I think I Covered that question. Dude with a gun just used it on unknown hostile and wants to secure the other "potential" hostiles until the police arrive. Were he a murderous thug he would have capped them all, but he was a stressed out guy who had just been forced to do one of the worst things anyone can do (take another's life) and doesn't know if any other threats are coming.

Couple of other tidbits I picked up from other news articles (trust them if you care to):

• The gun was being carried lawfully

• It happened at 10:00 PM

• Someone was towing a trailer, but stories vary who (Mr. Shooter Guy, I think)

• One report says hit once in the chest and 3 times in the back, another says hit 3 times in the belly

• House address is on the mailbox in reflective numbers, clearly visible from the street

• Mrs. Follower Guy was quoted on the tape saying, "Somebody needs to smack the crap out of this idiot".

• Mr. Follower Guy has been arrested for reckless driving in the past

• Mr. Shooter Guy allegedly threatened to 'shoot the victim in the head' before his wife says several times, 'put the gun away' and 'don't shoot'

• Police said this is not considered a Stand Your Ground case

You Floridians... What a wild and crazy bunch!

While I'm of the opinion that a person should have the right to defend himself, I question why the shooter led the other guy to his house. I used to get involved in road rage incidents- when I was younger and before I had a family. I didn't instigate them, but I sure didn't hesitate to express my feelings to the road rager. I've been followed multiple times. And NEVER would I lead someone to my house, work, or any other place that I'd want a crazy person to return to. I never had a problem losing a persuer, but if I couldn't, there are plenty of safer places to go. It makes a big difference to me who was towing the trailer. If it was the shooter, I could understand why he couldn't get away and felt he had to stand in fight. If it was the persuer, then the shooter should have easily have gotten away, and likely lured him to the home.

KyAllroad wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: I think I Covered that question. Dude with a gun just used it on unknown hostile and wants to secure the other "potential" hostiles until the police arrive. Were he a murderous thug he would have capped them all, but he was a stressed out guy who had just been forced to do one of the worst things anyone can do (take another's life) and doesn't know if any other threats are coming.

I dont think this is sound legal judgment. You just killed the aggressor. Ordering someone around at gunpoint is a felony I believe.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Forcing the other people out of the car at gun point is what will put this guy in jail. i don't think that's legal. What do the armchair lawyers of grm think?

What got the guy put in jail is second degree MURDER.

spitfirebill wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Forcing the other people out of the car at gun point is what will put this guy in jail. i don't think that's legal. What do the armchair lawyers of grm think?

What got the guy put in jail is second degree MURDER.

That's what he was charged with. There is a good chance it won't stick. Look at the Zimmerman case or many other shootings where prosecuters overcharged allowing the accused to walk away with nothing.

spitfirebill wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Forcing the other people out of the car at gun point is what will put this guy in jail. i don't think that's legal. What do the armchair lawyers of grm think?

What got the guy put in jail is second degree MURDER.

I'm expecting the castle doctorine to unsolve that problem.

My dad always taught me that if someone is following you, lead them to the police station.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Mine taught me to throw it in reverse and back through their radiator first.

Oh man that reminds me of a time when I was 16 and driving my Mom's station wagon home from work. It was like 10:30PM and I cruising at 39 on a 30 mph road. Some early 80s Chevy truck comes right up on my bumper, high beams on and giving me no space. This road is always patrolled by police officers so I stick to my guns and keep it at 39. After a few minutes of getting annoyed by his/her high beams I decided to give the guy a little brake check, mostly in case he didn't realize his high beams were on. Probably not the brightest idea but I did it and the guy got pissed, passed me on a double yellow and just yelled and gave the 1 finger salute as he passed. A little bit later down the road I realized he was pulled over and after I passed him he decided to follow me. He followed me home but instead of pulling into my driveway I pulled into my neighbors. The truckly SLOWLY passed by and then sat idling 50 feet passed the driveway. I hit it in reverse, pulled out and hauled ass the other way (as fast as I6 Mercedes Wagon can go...so like 30). The guy spun around and proceeded to chase. I ended up turning off my headlights so he couldn't see me and eventually I lost him down a few dirt roads.

Good times.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: Actually, he said "My gun's already out, it's cocked and locked". I don't think we know whether it was in the car or the house (although I'm inclined to agree with you).

Actually, right after that, he tells the police dispatcher he'll "be home in about 30 seconds". I assumed that meant the gun was in the car with him.