Lordstown, OH GM Plant Closing

aircooled said:

It's weird.  I just saw a promotion of Volvo's new vehicles.  4 or so cars, a wagon and an SUV.  I am not sure if Volvo is just not focused on the US market, or they have a different plan (or just don't care).

For some reason, a lot of people seem to think this has something to do with tariffs.   It seems to have nothing to do with tariffs as far as I can see.

I feel like (without looking up anything) the luxury cars are taking the entire car market. Seriously, what is the difference in msrp between the 3 series and the impala? 

Volvo is not quite Mercedes or BMW, but it would be similar.

The Detroit-Hamtramck plant closing is a huge deal. This is a plant that Detroit bulldozed an entire working class neighborhood (Poletown) to build back in the 1980s using eminent domain, and gave millions in incentives to get the plant built. Think Amazon HQ2. Now here we are a couple decades later. Thousands of working-class jobs lost.

The EV/Autonomous excuse is really lame given they are cancelling the Volt, I agree. More likely this is trade related- the plants are all the lowest-margin vehicles and built along the Canadian border. If tarriffs have hurt the bottom line (GM says it has) then it makes sense to concentrate on high-margin trucks and SUVs.

Erich said:

The Detroit-Hamtramck plant closing is a huge deal. This is a plant that Detroit bulldozed an entire working class neighborhood (Poletown) to build back in the 1980s using eminent domain, and gave millions in incentives to get the plant built. Think Amazon HQ2. Now here we are a couple decades later. Thousands of working-class jobs lost.

 

The EV/Autonomous excuse is really lame given they are cancelling the Volt, I agree. More likely this is trade related- the plants are all the lowest-margin vehicles and built along the Canadian border. If tarriffs have hurt the bottom line (GM says it has) then it makes sense to concentrate on high-margin trucks and SUVs.

One wonders if cities will look at this and not be so eager to offer tax and property incentives to bring companies in.  This would not be the first time a company left without a city realizing all of the benefits that the company was supposed to provide the community..... 

In reply to alfadriver :

I would hope so but who knows. The greed of local government is easily corrupted .

The Poletown plant got the equivalent of $1.2 Billion inflation adjusted incentives from Detroit and Michigan.

My in-laws live less than 5 miles from the Lordstown plant.  Even though nobody in their family has a job with GM, I'm sure it's going to affect them indirectly.

My heart goes out to the families that got the news that the plant closing will make them lose their jobs. Just before Christmas. Piss poor timing. 

In reply to STM317 :

They are killing to Volt because of the Bolt.  The Volt was released when charging stations were few and far between, so hybrids made sense.  Going forward, all-electric will be the norm now that there is a massive, high-speed electric charging infrastructure in place with only one type of connection used.  (oh wait) 

Erich said:

The Detroit-Hamtramck plant closing is a huge deal. This is a plant that Detroit bulldozed an entire working class neighborhood (Poletown) to build back in the 1980s using eminent domain, and gave millions in incentives to get the plant built. Think Amazon HQ2. Now here we are a couple decades later. Thousands of working-class jobs lost.

Yeah, I remember it being a big deal. They bulldozed an existing auto plant (Dodge Main) and a bunch of houses to build that place. Another downside, though way down the list behind people losing their jobs, is that it's a pretty good autocross site that's been the home of the Corvette Club of Michigan for years now.

Jalopnik did an article on the Poletown/ Hamtramck plant and the neighborhood "restructuring":

https://jalopnik.com/a-part-of-detroit-was-destroyed-in-the-1980s-so-gm-coul-1830666242

GM is floundering.  Closing plants may make some sense, and be necessary, but, other than BOF vehicles, there just isn't anything they do well.  The cars are either critically acclaimed (Impala, whatever the Caddy sedan is that no one buys other than my parents) and sales flops, or marginally-competitive vehicles that exist because there's a segment and GM's got to have a product in every segment *cough* Cruze *cough*

A co-worker of mine bought a Bolt.  It's a thoroughly decent car, but man, there is no way to justify it's price tag, even after the tax incentives.  

The thing is, they could actually turn the tables around now on the competition.  I just got a new Corolla sedan as a rental and if you took the badges off of it and asked me to guess who made it, probably the last company I'd guess would be Toyota.  It's not terrible, but its sure not anything I'd even consider buying in that segment.  I recently test drove a Cruze and I'd honesty put it on par with the 'Rolla.  If GM made the car a) even a little bit superior, and b) kicked quality into top gear the Cruze would eat the 'Rolla for lunch.

But no one buys sedans anymore.   Ford's already made that acknowledgement and GM isn't far behind.  So they need to do what I just described, but on the Rav4/Highlander/whatever Lexus is peddling as their upper-middle-class female status symbol.

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

Storz said:

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

That's why you guys need to actually buy NEW cars. 

z31maniac said:

Storz said:

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

That's why you guys need to actually buy NEW cars. 

I bought a new Silverado 2 weeks ago ;)

This thing (and the ridiculous Amazon HQ2 search) has me wondering if there should be some sort of federal law against tax (and other) incentives to draw in or keep businesses.  Communities should stand or fall on their current tax and zoning laws, so if some business is getting incentives to build there, all the pre-existing businesses and residents should get the same bonus, ie. enact tax cuts for all.

The Interstate Commerce Clause has been stretched so far that this should easily fall in Federal jurisdiction. 

Edit:  oh yeah, I did buy a new car this year, just not GM.

Storz said:

z31maniac said:

Storz said:

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

That's why you guys need to actually buy NEW cars. 

I bought a new Silverado 2 weeks ago ;)

 

 

Truck != car

Try again. 

Dusterbd13-michael said:

My heart goes out to the families that got the news that the plant closing will make them lose their jobs. Just before Christmas. Piss poor timing. 

This is the one year notice that's required in the UAW contracts. Still sucks, but it's a year until that plants close if my reading is right. 

I don't feel any company should get incentives, period.  That comes out of all of our hides.  I'm especially pissed off when the city does this for a sports team.  Which is owned by a *billionaire*!!  They certainly can afford to provide a place for their team to perform, which they charge people to see.  Why should the city pay for that, only to have the team then charge the city residents for entry into the building they own?

docwyte said:

I don't feel any company should get incentives, period.  That comes out of all of our hides.  I'm especially pissed off when the city does this for a sports team.  Which is owned by a *billionaire*!!  They certainly can afford to provide a place for their team to perform, which they charge people to see.  Why should the city pay for that, only to have the team then charge the city residents for entry into the building they own?

St Louis is a good case study for that.  They built a stadium in the hopes of getting an expansion team, didn’t get it, lured the Rams there, then lost them.  And are still paying on a bond issue for a now empty stadium.

In reply to pinchvalve :

Also interesting is the emphasis placed on autonomous driving in the future, and then GM axes the CT6, which is the only model to feature their semi-autonomous "Super Cruise" tech.

They might have to undo those US closures real quick, or else.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/27/business/gm-trump-subsidies/index.html

GameboyRMH said:

They might have to undo those US closures real quick, or else.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/27/business/gm-trump-subsidies/index.html

Well, when you take money from the feds, this is what happens. GM should be able to run their business as they see fit, in theory, but my sympathy for them in this matter is vanishingly small.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Can't really see how that affects GM.  They should be able to run their company as they see fit.  If anything, since his tweet negatively affected their stock price, they'll be cutting those factories and jobs even more so. 

This is classic corporate maneuvering, taking advantage wherever they can, which I have to point out, private citizen Trump has done many times.

In reply to docwyte :

When the Feds bail your ass out of a deep enough hole, they can make a claim to owning a piece of it  

Storz said:

z31maniac said:

Storz said:

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

That's why you guys need to actually buy NEW cars. 

I bought a new Silverado 2 weeks ago ;)

 

 

Then you're part of the problem, aren't you?

Knurled. said:

Storz said:

z31maniac said:

Storz said:

Our hobby and being a driving enthusiast is a dying thing. Kiss it goodbye for "normal" people, driving yourself will be relegated to tracks only once the insurance companies rate hike us out of existence. 

That's why you guys need to actually buy NEW cars. 

I bought a new Silverado 2 weeks ago ;)

 

 

Then you're part of the problem, aren't you?

Eh - car doesn't fit the lifestyle and outside of the Corvette and Camaro and some very expensive V series stuff GM doesn't make a single car that has my interest. 

Yep, pretty much.  Test drove a Cruze myself before buying a 3.  The Cruze just didn't match up at all.  It didn't help that the Cruze hatch was Hecho en Mexico anyway.  So even if I had bought it, it wouldn't have helped Lordstown one bit.  

I later talked to an ex-GM tech (who worked for the Mazda service department where I bought my 3) and he said they'd had tons of issues with the 2nd Gen Cruzes.