Macbook Pro?

My wife works for the school system and can get $200 off through work so that makes the refurb thing kind of a push.

I love my MacBook Pro, but there are certainly some downsides that have not been addressed here.

It sounds like there are a lot of people on this board who fall into 2 groups: plug-n-play basic independent users (who don't use secure business networks), or geek types who could conquer their own networking issues if they had them. For these two groups, it's a fine machine.

You either have to be willing to use the thing for the EXACT purpose Steve Jobs wanted you to, or be smart enough to develop your own work-arounds and not care. I am typically one of those non-geeky plug-n-play types.

I love the build quality. I like the feel, the screen quality, the keyboard touch, the touchpad interface, the robust battery life. It is a quality tool, with no drama. I have never had a crash or malware that it was not able to fix itself. Even after 5 years of "unsafe" surfing (on random unsecure networks).

But there are a couple of areas it sucks at.

• It doesn't interface well with older Windows based programs remotely. I had a job for a while which required me to access large Filemaker Pro files remotely through a VPN. It was a nightmare to try to access.

• It doesn't play well with secure networks. If you have to log on or interface with a primarily PC based network, your network admin will have a lot of headaches. In my case, I have no access at work.

• Businesses still don't use Macs very much, and don't want to accommodate them.

• I have a need to run CAD programs. There is not a good CAD program for a Mac (some are almost there). I can't share CAD files with users using conventional CAD programs.

• Don't let anyone tell you PC based programs work fine with a dual boot. They don't, unless you are geeky enough. I have had to abandon thousands of dollars of software that I can't run through the dual boot setup.

• They don't get along with virtual networks.

• Previously mentioned... I-Tunes sucks, and is becoming a bigger and more controlling force.

• If you are in a rural area (as in, NOT near a Mac store), expect to have issues with support. Mac will support you well, but you won't find local help. You will have to ship it off if you need help (though that is rare).

• For the ultra geeky, it may not handle huge graphics or memory challenges well. My son does high definition video editing, and is a Mac fanboi. But the hardware couldn't handle the size of the files he works with. He built a "HackIntosh" to have the power and speed he needed (basically he is running Mac operating system on PC based hardware).

So yes, there are some downfalls.

Because I live in a rural area and have the need to connect to secure networks (and don't have the ability to handle my own IT problems), my next machine will probably be a PC.

If it is, I will miss my Mac terribly.

carguy123 wrote:

The ONLY reason not to move to Mac from a Windows PC is if you're one of those hardcore Excel users whose fingers are curled into shortcuts and macros. The Mac versions of Office have always, and will always suck hardcore. If you've got Office shortcuts hardwired into your fingers, they're not the same on the Mac, and you'll be super frustrated. There! Finally found a reason :)

Why would you use Excel on any computer? Numbers on the Mac (as well as Pages) are so much smaller, faster and easier to use than Excel. Plus you can output to Excel files and open Excel with them. It's true I's not a engineer, but I build some fairly complex spread sheets and do graphing and I've not come close to reaching the limits of Pages & Numbers. Anything to get away from the evil empire MS As far as playing PC games, well the Mac will do that too. Straight from Apple you can boot either in Mac OS or Windoze. If you want to run them both at the same time then Parllels or Fusionware is for you. Soon, very soon that capability will be part of the OS on Mac.

When you're forced to at work in Corporate America, of whom the OVERWHELMING majority use Windows machines.

I 100% could NOT do my job on a Mac, unfortunately.

I am looking at those refurbs, though. I'm due for a replacement. (This bargain basement Windows laptop purchased 6 years ago for $350 brand new could stand to be relegated to tuning status. Still works perfectly, just want something a bit fancier.)

Ugh... after looking at the refurbs, i wish i had the extra cash to throw at one of those things. Not for me. I'm doomed to a few more years of PC-land.

There are various industry standard softwares that will not run on a Mac. For example, the insurance industry uses Xactimate for claims estimating and adjusting almost exclusively. It won't run on a Mac. There are lots of others.

That's why you can load Windows either in Parallels or on a separate HD partition. It's no different than any other Intel system running multiple operating systems.

I don't know the Mac's are worth the extra price, IMO, but OS-X helps.

I've not ever had any issues with secure networks.

My SIL is the part time IT guy for Macs at his company. They have over 50 Macs & 19 PCs. They have to have a full time PC IT guy.

They also run secure networks with no issues. So many companies use a Mac as the server because (so I'm told) if they have a severe break they can have it up and running again in minutes. Something to do with just going back to an earlier image and the watching it to see what makes it fail. Obviously I've never had to deal with this, but this is the majority of my SIL's time. Sitting there and watching the PCs crash the system.

My point with Numbers is that you can run it much more easily in a mixed system than Excel. Everyone doesn't have to have the exact same version to minimize issues as it is with MS stuff. Same thing is true for Pages vs. Word.

I see Macs at almost every business I enter. More and more people are switching because then they aren't at the mercy of IT guys and all the software upgrades, bugs, viruses, etc. It is a much more secure platform for communicating with the world.

Yes, there are some old time programs that won't run on a Mac like the Insurance's program. I have one in my industry too. I own only 1 PC and when it dies I won't replace it. I run that one program on several Macs and it's more stable. I spend more time keeping my 1 PC running than I do with all my Macs (15).

I have a job. I want to do that job. Any downtime is counter productive, hence the Macs.

You usually find dinosaurs like that in industries where the software people have a cash cow from the support & upgrades of that program and they will resist changing because they would lose business. Fortunately those types of scenarios are getting fewer & fewer as people wise up to the scam.

Unfortunately those types of systems have usually become so complex it will take a large commitment in time & money to replace it so they survive, for now.

I don't think Macs are expensive. They are the cheapest thing I have to operate. Definitely cheaper than any of my cars.

Wonkothesane wrote: I'm not downing Macs, but I've never figured out what problems people are having with their windows systems that make them so happy to be "trouble free?" Seriously, other than OS updates/patches, does anyone reboot or have blue screens anymore or anything? I'm not even sure when the last time my desktop or laptop computers have been shut down, and I know the last time they've had to be rebooted because of a problem. Never...

It's not necessarily major problems like BSOD, but minor annoyances all the time. Things just don't quite fit. Registry problems if an install fails. Driver hassles. Runaway processes. A lot of it is the result of the fact that the hardware will vary dramatically between machines. The fact that Apple controls their hardware (to the chagrin of some) is a big contributor to why it's so stable, I think. I still use a Windows machine at work and it's just a little tiny bit clunky. You don't want to hear the hassles my coworker went through today trying to install some software on his new PC, including a corrupted registry when the older software couldn't deal with the Windows 7 file naming structure. Fun times.

It's like the difference between a Snap-On tool and a HF one in a lot of ways.

Keith's comparison is pretty good. All the developers in my team have Macs under their desks even though we are running Windows in them. We habe far fewer hardware issue than we had when we bought Dell workstations.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

I think I have just made my decision...

Woody - bottom line is - the mac is a want not a need unless you work for Apple. There are plenty of reasons for and against. Unless you have specific software that you HAVE to use then any platform will do. Refurb makes it less painful to go with one, but you are still spending. Get what you want and don't try to justify the cost. Some people like them better but it is an emotional thing like buying a car. Some guys want a SAAB. Who knows what the hell is going thru their twisted minds... but they swear by them :)

carguy123 wrote: I've not ever had any issues with secure networks. My SIL is the part time IT guy for Macs at his company. They have over 50 Macs & 19 PCs. They have to have a full time PC IT guy. They also run secure networks with no issues. So many companies use a Mac as the server because (so I'm told) if they have a severe break they can have it up and running again in minutes. Something to do with just going back to an earlier image and the watching it to see what makes it fail. Obviously I've never had to deal with this, but this is the majority of my SIL's time. Sitting there and watching the PCs crash the system. My point with Numbers is that you can run it much more easily in a mixed system than Excel. Everyone doesn't have to have the exact same version to minimize issues as it is with MS stuff. Same thing is true for Pages vs. Word. I see Macs at almost every business I enter. More and more people are switching because then they aren't at the mercy of IT guys and all the software upgrades, bugs, viruses, etc. It is a much more secure platform for communicating with the world. Yes, there are some old time programs that won't run on a Mac like the Insurance's program. I have one in my industry too. I own only 1 PC and when it dies I won't replace it. I run that one program on several Macs and it's more stable. I spend more time keeping my 1 PC running than I do with all my Macs (15). I have a job. I want to do that job. Any downtime is counter productive, hence the Macs. You usually find dinosaurs like that in industries where the software people have a cash cow from the support & upgrades of that program and they will resist changing because they would lose business. Fortunately those types of scenarios are getting fewer & fewer as people wise up to the scam. Unfortunately those types of systems have usually become so complex it will take a large commitment in time & money to replace it so they survive, for now. I don't think Macs are expensive. They are the cheapest thing I have to operate. Definitely cheaper than any of my cars.

Lol. I think your attitude about Windows machines is the dinosaur here. Most companies do not use Mac servers, and a lot of the ones that do are moving away from them. I'll go further and say that they WERE more secure because they were in the minority. You've got to remember that they're just computers, and that the components are pretty much the same. You're paying for a logo and the ability to run OS X legally.

Woody - bottom line is - the Mac has proven to be the superior platform and there are a lot of testaments here to back that up. When I took a new job 2.5 years ago, they offered me a Mac. With the cost issue out of the way, I decided to give it a try. I was a PC fanboi, but it didn't take long to convince me to never buy another PC as long as I live. I have never had to restart, have never seen a blue screen of death, have never had to reinstall anything, never gotten weird error messages or virus issues. It just fires up and works all day, every day.

I agree that you have to use it as Steve Jobs intended, and if you move from Microsoft to Apple products (Numbers, Mail, etc) your life will be easier. I also agree that they are curiously expensive, but definitely worth the outlay. At work, all of the management use Macs, so our IT department has had to accomodate us. The only issue that I have ever seen is that the network requires you to reset your password every few months. It is not as easy to accomplish on the Mac as on a PC. Other than that, seamless.

A word of warning however; I now own iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple TV and a large-screen Apple monitor. If they release the iBackscratcher, I will probably buy it. Apple is more addictive and expensive than Crack.

If only this were as easy as fixing Porsches...

Woody wrote: If only this were as easy as fixing Porsches...

Similar emotional attachment and cost justification as the P-cars. It is just a computer. I built my own pc from specs I found at tonymacx86.com (after reading a thread on here from a staffer), put OS-X Snow Leopard on it because I liked the OS but didn't like the price. I drive a 23yr old 911 as a daily driver. I'm wearing pants I bought in the airport. I might not be the key demographic you are looking for for an opinion but I'll give you one anyway....

Buy the macbook. Use it for 30 days. If it still irritates you, sell the macbook. /thread

My current desktop

I am an acmt so I will tell you they are worth the money. I fix dozens of HP PCs at work for every Mac I have to work on.

I'm in IT/software development (I've got 2 hats currently at my job.) We've basically got a Windows only shop (locked into the MS development sphere... IIS, MS SQL Server, .NET, etc.).

I've got 2 Macs at home, a Mac Mini for web browsing/Netflix/youtube/email, and a 6 year old Macbook that I picked up for free and resurrected with a new HDD. The Macbook replaced a Linux desktop. If you discount the difficulties associated with the nearly dead optical drive on the Macbook, I installed a new HDD, RAM, OS X, OS updates, iTunes library, updated to a newer version of OS X (when I realized certain features weren't available on the initial version I installed), its OS updates, Chrome, and setup VPN and remote desktop within 6 hours.

I probably had been fiddling with the Linux box for twice as long, and wasn't really satisfied with everything. And it couldn't do Netflix or use my iTunes library.

If I'd have installed windows 7 on the same computer, I estimate that it would have taken a little longer and been quite more fiddly in terms of drivers. Setting up the VPN would've taken longer, and is generally less easy to get to. I'd also have to have gone through product activation and product key crud. The last time I used iTunes on Windows, it was a bloated mess. It has always seemed less so on Macs.

In short, it has less crap getting in my way. I don't know the performance differential on the same hardware; I've never bothered to find out.

This post has been written on a Linux virtual machine which is side-by-side with a Windows 7 virtual machine with a Windows 7 host. I sometimes also run an XP virtual machine as well on this box.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Woody - bottom line is - the mac is a want not a need unless you work for Apple. There are plenty of reasons for and against. Unless you have specific software that you HAVE to use then any platform will do.

Actually, in most publishing/graphics arts departments, a Mac is often a requirement. Although the big boys are cross platform, eg Photoshop, a lot of the little tools, applets, plugins and workflow bits are not.

In reply to EricM:

I have 10.6.8 running on a quad core 3.3GHz i7 in 64 bit, with 16G of ram, AMD Radeon HD 6850 video, 3 6g/s 1TB drives and all the magic works. Total cost: $880 (not including case and power supply which I already owned). It has never failed or even faltered - if it does - newegg instead of Apple Store. My wife has had the same positive experience with her "purchased from Apple" workstation ($5k) and macbook pro ($2k) only my "fake" one lays absolute waste to either in terms of performance at 1/6th the cost. You pay a lot for that silver paint and little logo. Not all of it is in direct relation to actual value.

It does not have to be an either/or. You just have to choose the right hardware and buy the OS for $29.

I went to a 17" Macbook Pro 3 1/2 years ago after several windows based laptops. In that time it has only failed to respond upon opening twice. Once after sittting for 2 weeks in standby and once when it overheated because I had it jammed between the couch cushions.

It has never said it had to shut down, it never locked up, it never needed a driver, etc.

It was UBERexpensive, but I have had NO regrets. (and much less aggravation)

T

PS - The first program I added was parrallels so I could run Windows, but found I almost never did except to run 1 old windows specific program (a suspension analyzer).

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Work paid for my E36 M3. I know you can hakcintosh a pretty good system for little money, but like I said, work pays for my stuff, also, I have an i7, 8GB air I tote around with me :-)

OH, all macs have Boot Camp built in, so if you want to run windows, you can. It takes about two hours to set up. I have boot camped macs joined to our Active Directory Domain (we also join the mac to the AD domain for authentication, access to SMB Shares, etc, works great).

So really, if you can stand spending the money, go ahead and get a Mac.

Once, for grins and giggles, I joined an OS X machine to active directory. This was 4-5 years ago. At the time, it was one of the few OS X things that wasn't really for the faint of heart. I'm not sure how well it plays with AD now.

What's the difference between a Mac and a Hackintosh running same specs besides price?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: What's the difference between a Mac and a Hackintosh running same specs besides price?

You are your own support. It does not come with the OS installed so a bit more of a hassle to get it installed initially. You need to follow some instructions, that is pretty much it.

Depends on the hackintosh. If it's a laptop, the Mac will probably have better build quality - just go to your local Best Buy and open the screens to feel it. I doubt that's as big a deal on a desktop , as they tend to live easier lives. You might also have some driver difficulties with a hackintosh as Apple expects you to be using a specific hardware set - but I've never tried to do it, so I can't say for sure.