Keith Tanner said:Also, the CT seems to occupy a lot of real estate in people's heads - like a guy who's willing to sit by the side of the road and hold a sign stating how much it bothers him that someone bought a vehicle he doesn't like. And other people celebrate him for it!
As has been pointed out, this wasn't a kid sat by the side of a random road. This was during the biggest automotive event in the world. There's every type of car, bike, truck, from stock to race, to custom, to hot rod etc. Outside of a very few (and shrinking by the year) Boomers who consider anything built after 1970 or outside of the big three as crap, people are loving, cheering and accepting of every vehicle, with the exception of the WankPanzer. I didn't see it this year, but most other years there's been a parade of Hummer electric truck doing their crab walk in a line, people love it. The only vehicles I've ever seen jeered and booed are the Cyberturd and the occasional religious wack job driving up and down with totally inappropriate signage on a trailer.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:P.S. I'm not an electric car hater, I like a lot of small EV's, can't wait to try the new Mini SE, electric Boxster etc.
I'm curious how good the new Mini SE is, because the outgoing Mini SE was an absolutely brilliant little car to drive, other than the pretty short range. I had the experience of autocrossing one twice, once on factory tires and again on RT-615K+s, and it was a blast both times.
In reply to NickD :
Harry Metcalf dropped a review on Youtube over the weekend. HEavy, expensive, but a great hot hatch was his take.
NickD said:Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:
We passed him when his count was only 3, but saw a Wankpanzer go past him when we were on the other side of Woodward. He was a popular kid.
When was the last time a vehicle was so hated on? Even the Aztec was only hated on for it's looks, not every single thing about it.
I saw one on Saturday, except this one was vinyl wrapped dark green on the body and black on the roofline. Which had the effect of making it look even more like a rolling dumpster.
WHERE'S THIS ONE, HUH??? GREATER THAN ALL OF THEM
or for the others of us...
--granted, that one was a little de- tuned, but still
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
The Whistlindiesel vids (I hate that guy) really opened my eyes to how bad the CT actually is.
P3PPY said:NickD said:Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:
We passed him when his count was only 3, but saw a Wankpanzer go past him when we were on the other side of Woodward. He was a popular kid.
When was the last time a vehicle was so hated on? Even the Aztec was only hated on for it's looks, not every single thing about it.
I saw one on Saturday, except this one was vinyl wrapped dark green on the body and black on the roofline. Which had the effect of making it look even more like a rolling dumpster.
WHERE'S THIS ONE, HUH??? GREATER THAN ALL OF THEM
or for the others of us...
--granted, that one was a little de- tuned, but still
Pffft. This one above all other X's
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:
We passed him when his count was only 3, but saw a Wankpanzer go past him when we were on the other side of Woodward. He was a popular kid.
When was the last time a vehicle was so hated on? Even the Aztec was only hated on for it's looks, not every single thing about it.
David Tracy and co did take their Aztec to Monterey, it was apparently quite well received
https://www.theautopian.com/the-most-popular-car-in-monterey-is-our-3600-pontiac-aztek/
In reply to P3PPY :
Today I learned that the Microsoft Excel Logo was originally an X over an L.
Huh...
Memes, boys. Memes.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:The difference between the Cybertruck and the Aztek is that the Aztek was totally unremarkable other than being ugly. It was basically a minivan with a different hat. The CT actually has some very cool engineering in it and will hopefully pay for the R&D of those new technologies so they show up in other vehicles. It's not very practical or cheap and it looks dumb but you can say the same about a new dually pickup that's been lifted by a foot and is rolling around on mud tires :)
Yes, the Aztec was unremarkable other than being ugly, but it was actually a decent vehicle that did it's intended job well, as proven by other versions of the platform for other divisions of GM. The WankPanzer is a useless POS, that can't even be sold in most of the world as its dangerous to users and pedestrians, and that's just the exterior, let alone the interior with such a lack of actual buttons so it's dangerous to drive as you need to look away so much. A lot of it's great new tech is not fully developed, is proving glitchy, has build quality that would make a Lada factory circa 1975 shut down to sort out the E36 M3. Also any vehicle that has multiple reports, photo's etc. of people being cut, hurt, injured by it's stupid and dangerous shapr edges curves, etc.. It's larger and less capable than it's intended competition, it's the size of SuperDuty type trucks with the real world capability of compact Tucks. Unlike Tesla 'cars' which are E36 M3ty soulless POS's, they are at least decent usable devises for people who don't care about driving.
P.S. I'm not an electric car hater, I like a lot of small EV's, can't wait to try the new Mini SE, electric Boxster etc. There's definitely a place for most of the EV's out there, even Tesla, but not the WankPanzer. It's funny, I have friends from all over the political spectrum, and all over the automotive spectrum, but I have yet to find anyone outside of the internet, that has anything but utter total scorn for the Cyberturd and their owners.
And Keith, I know you are a great automotive enthusiast, but also with knowledge and experience, almost no one else has. I also know that you love your Model 3, it's just that in my experience (over 10K miles in an S, probably over 1,000 miles now in model 3's, and a handful of times in a Model X), I have never been impressed by Tesla's design, build, quality, fit finish, driving abilities, NVH etc. They make outstanding daily commuters, but have zero involvement or soul. I'm glad you have a different experience, mine is just different.
I didn't say it was a good vehicle, I said it has some very cool engineering. A 24V electrical system, for example. Drive-by-wire steering. I know it's cool to assume that all Teslas are just hack jobs because some of their high profile features come across that way, but they do some things better than anyone else like actual electric propulsion. I'm hoping that the CT pays for the development of these core technologies so we all benefit from them. I don't care about the YouTube clickbait crap or dismissive names that are trying to sound clever, I'm interested in what the CT means for vehicles 10 years from now.
I've taken cars apart right down to the bare chassis, I have yet to find the soul module in any of them. My Model 3 is really good at what it does. So is my 2500 diesel pickup. So is my V8 Miata track car. None of them have a soul. Some are more involving than others because in some cases, involvement is the point.
This vehicle, however, has a soul. Says so right on the rear hatch :)
Keith Tanner said:...None of them have a soul...
I'm actually surprised to hear you say this. It must be from working in the industry instead of playing in the industry.
It may explain your love of the Teslas.
I have to wonder where the Landcruiser belongs in the grand scheme of things. It pretty much sucks at what it's designed for compared to any modern offering. Why keep it if it has no soul?
Sigh.......
I really don't care about the danged thing but....
The CT was intended from the start to be polarizing and was introduced by an extremely polarizing person who oversold and underdelivered. Being surprised that it causes a reaction seems a almost naive.
Now back to the dang memes!!!
In reply to Trent :
Considering how long it was supposedly in development the abysmal finish is surprising. They know how to assemble cars, but somehow the cybertruck people couldn't figure it out I haven't seen one yet that looked finished, and several already have trim bits missing.
Toyman! said:Keith Tanner said:...None of them have a soul...I'm actually surprised to hear you say this. It must be from working in the industry instead of playing in the industry.
It may explain your love of the Teslas.
I have to wonder where the Landcruiser belongs in the grand scheme of things. It pretty much sucks at what it's designed for compared to any modern offering. Why keep it if it has no soul?
If you mean my old Land Rover, it hasn't moved under its own power for over a decade because there's a XK parked beside it that does everything better. Not because the soul module has given up - which it probably would have due to lack of lubrication. I keep saying "I need to sell it" but haven't been motivated enough to make it happen because the zero effort option is to let it sit. Same with the classic Mini and the blue turbo NA. Anyone interested let me know, the easier you make it the better.
Interesting to drive is a different thing from having a soul, IMO. Some cars don't have to be interesting, they just have to be effective. Nothing wrong with that. But it's okay to be ineffective and interesting.
I think developing the Cybertruck was a terrible choice for Tesla - the Model 2 would have been a much better target for all that time and money both for Tesla and for the market at large. But it may not have allowed the development of some of those more advanced technologies that the high priced CT can bankroll. So I'm hoping we get something out of it.
In light of things discussed in this thread, one of my favorite conversations netween my favorite characters, from my favorite author.
All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.
Hogfather- Terry Pratchett
Sir Terry was brilliant.
I use to work at a dealership when the Soul was introduced. Had a lot of neat little features. Anyways...
Best story I heard was a sister dealership had a black Kia Soul on the lot, local guy came in and test drove it, "liked" it so went through all the work to purchase it.
When signing the final paperwork and taking the keys, he looked straight face at the salesperson and deadpan tells him 'I own your Soul'.
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