Michigan State Police not riding Harleys???

ST_ZX2 wrote:

yamaha wrote: I mean, a Suzuki Boulevard has more innovation in it than harley does, and pending the model, up to 1/4 the price.

Define "innovation". As for price: 2012 Yamaha Royal Star Venture $20190 2012 Kawasaki Voyager $18999 2012 Suzuki "Dresser"--Oh wait--they don't make one. 2012 H-D Electra Glide Classic $19499 2012 H-D Electra Glide Ultra Classic $21499 Now lets see what they are worth when they are 3 years old; Harley cruiser and touring bikes are priced very much in line with the rest of the market--please don't spew forth any more ignorance.

Don't do the "what they are worth when they are 3 years old" thing... there is always somebody willing to pay top dollar for a harley.

It would be interesting to see what the three year values of a harley and a bmw are.

Personally, I am not surprised.. Atlantic City cops moved to BMWs years ago

jrw1621 wrote:

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: If some overseas car company made a hellacious reliable car that was great for police duty and was cheaper than our offerings from the Big 3, then I would imagine it would be taken into consideration. I guarantee some police force would buy it.

Will rebadged Holden's fall into this "overseas" category?

It could, but it doesn't seem like its preferred over the Taurus or Charger.

Type Q wrote: When did the Michigan State Police get motorcycles? In the all the years I lived there, I never saw one. Seems like a big expenditure for a vehicle you can patrol with maybe five months per year.

There is usually a pack, 4-6, of them on I-275 south of 8 mile to Michigan Ave, mid morning.

I've seen state cops on bikes in April, and as late as October. My math makes that look like 7 months give or take a handfull of days.

Don't do the "what they are worth when they are 3 years old" thing... there is always somebody willing to pay top dollar for a harley. It would be interesting to see what the three year values of a harley and a bmw are. Personally, I am not surprised.. Atlantic City cops moved to BMWs years ago

That is exactly my point. You don't know what something truly costs until you go to sell it.

Harleys are what they are--and I am sure that the BMWs are very nice, and nice performing bikes. I just get sick of hearing that new Harleys are too expensive.

16vCorey wrote: Here in Evansville our cops have Harleys, BMWs, and even a few Hondas. I really have no idea how they came to that decision, and why we have so many different police bikes. I'm guessing they were all purchased at different times for different reasons, but who knows.

Maybe is it personal (lifestyle?) choice of the officers. In Houston, they own their own and receive a reimbursement from the City for its use. There are subsequently a number of different bikes in use out there-- mostly HD's and Hondas, I understand.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:

jrw1621 wrote:

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: If some overseas car company made a hellacious reliable car that was great for police duty and was cheaper than our offerings from the Big 3, then I would imagine it would be taken into consideration. I guarantee some police force would buy it.

Will rebadged Holden's fall into this "overseas" category?

It could, but it doesn't seem like its preferred over the Taurus or Charger.

I heard it had a great top speed. Unfortunately thats all she had.

ST_ZX2 wrote:

Don't do the "what they are worth when they are 3 years old" thing... there is always somebody willing to pay top dollar for a harley. It would be interesting to see what the three year values of a harley and a bmw are. Personally, I am not surprised.. Atlantic City cops moved to BMWs years ago

That is exactly my point. You don't know what something truly costs until you go to sell it. Harleys are what they are--and I am sure that the BMWs are very nice, and nice performing bikes. I just get sick of hearing that new Harleys are too expensive.

Perhaps he meant that it is overpriced for the quality you get. I agree that the entry fee is similar but for those of us in "the Know" it seems a silly choice when literally anything else is built better with some engineering behind it. 45 degree twin... really?

Owning a Harley is kind of like being Amish. In the ignoring technology kind of way.

My only issues with Harleys is their owners. My business partner has a nice one.. he keeps it stock and just rides the piss out of it all year... not your typical harley rider. Around here the typical rider is the asshat who comes down my road everyday at 7:30 am.. gunning it up to redline on straight pipes just so he can let and coast down so he can do it again, and again, and again.

I am a fairly patient and non-aggressive person.. but he is making me want to string a rope across the road at chest height

mad_machine wrote: Around here the typical rider is the asshat who comes down my road everyday at 7:30 am.. gunning it up to redline on straight pipes just so he can let and coast down so he can do it again, and again, and again.

Right after you get the kids down to bed.

Yeah, the H-D riders are the only ones I notice that just keep having to gun the throttle while at a red light. Will the engines really not idle without constant attention? Maybe they just like the vibration on the, special places?

Honestly I could see how a harley isn't really a great cop bike just being so big and heavy and not very manueverable. They also shake and rattle like something else but that isn't that big of a deal.

The whole argument that harley is stuck in the past and is lousy because of it while there are other companies like motoguzzi who use dated designs, but I guess the Italians get a pass for quirky design right? A lot of hipster elitism is what I see.

ST_ZX2 wrote: A full-dress Harley will run a 1/4 mile in the mid-13s at nearly 100; the 31 second figure is complete bullE36 M3.

Add cop gear to it and that number changes.

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, the H-D riders are the only ones I notice that just keep having to gun the throttle while at a red light. Will the engines really not idle without constant attention? Maybe they just like the vibration on the, special places?

Personally, I think they all have parkinsons.....and thats why they're doing that.

Now onto the bashfest

singleslammer wrote:

ST_ZX2 wrote:

Don't do the "what they are worth when they are 3 years old" thing... there is always somebody willing to pay top dollar for a harley. It would be interesting to see what the three year values of a harley and a bmw are. Personally, I am not surprised.. Atlantic City cops moved to BMWs years ago

That is exactly my point. You don't know what something truly costs until you go to sell it. Harleys are what they are--and I am sure that the BMWs are very nice, and nice performing bikes. I just get sick of hearing that new Harleys are too expensive.

Perhaps he meant that it is overpriced for the quality you get. I agree that the entry fee is similar but for those of us in "the Know" it seems a silly choice when literally anything else is built better with some engineering behind it. 45 degree twin... really?

Precisely my point, you can get a C50 Suzuki which is nicer than a sportster, for about 6k.....it's just as quick, more reliable, more engineering into it, etc. HD is honestly a fashion accessory. They're not the best for the price by any means, people buy them to either look cool or due to brand loyalty.

Also, the bmw open road bikes truly only have one competitor, and thats the goldwing(which I believe costs more yet)

benzbaronDaryn wrote: The whole argument that harley is stuck in the past and is lousy because of it while there are other companies like motoguzzi who use dated designs, but I guess the Italians get a pass for quirky design right? A lot of hipster elitism is what I see.

No, no, and no. Harley has had every damn chance to modernize and they have always killed it either through no marketing, gaudy E36 M3ty designs, or listening to the bearded old farts saying they will never buy another if they change.

Curmudgeon wrote: When BMW opened their plant here in SC, the SC Highway Patrol got two 750il's and 2 BMW bikes as part of the deal, alll painted up in Highway Patrol silver/stripes.

It was a couple BMW M5 patrol cars, if I remember correctly.

edit: as far as foreign brands of motorcycles go, besides BMW and Kawasaki, Triumph and Moto Guzzi bikes were used in the past (go back and watch the Dirty Harry movie Magnum Force), as well as 450cc and 750cc Hondas.

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, the H-D riders are the only ones I notice that just keep having to gun the throttle while at a red light. Will the engines really not idle without constant attention? Maybe they just like the vibration on the, special places?

maybe they think the bikes are still being built by AMF?

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, the H-D riders are the only ones I notice that just keep having to gun the throttle while at a red light. Will the engines really not idle without constant attention? Maybe they just like the vibration on the, special places?

Ingrained habit from the old carb days. Even back then, the posers couldn't jet a carb right, so the throttle blip ensued. Once you had the carb right, as long as you had a breeze over the jugs, it could run all day long without loading up.

I've actually yelled at Harley owners "it's not carb'ed, stop revving!"

Usually they just revved more.

My XS650 is carbed and kick-only and I still hate to rev it at stop lights.

Cops should ride Buells or supermotos.

The thing about Guzzi is, the 90 degree v-twin is so much smoother than a 45 degree that they don't have an issue, in fact just about anything they'd do would make the motor worse from a balance stand-point. The most recent Guzzi's also have four valves per cylinder, EFI, etc. They're nothing to sneeze at from an engineering standpoint.

H-D does have the V-Rod and the "Porsche motor" but they try so hard to minimize the chance of anyone knowing those sorts of details, and it's still got that stupid v-angle, it's hard to respect them for that bike. And that's what a lot of the backlash is about, I think, when talking about the company; they're slow to change and when they do, it's almost at the risk of scaring off posers. The guys that do 10K, 20K, etc mileages a year? They want a bike that will let them do that 20K a year and would buy an H-D that didn't shake paint (I hear at they're extremely smooth when at cruise), contain modern engineering that is reliable, etc.

But really I don't think anyone would care if most of the actual H-D owners weren't so eager to get attention for non-civil displays. This is about as nicely as I could word it. I really wish a good 90% of H-D riders would hang it up and go off to other hobbies, they give motorcycle riders a bad name, and every time I get asked by someone new if I ride a Harley I explain that I wanted a motorcycle, not a new lifestyle.

My name is David, my handle is pres589, and my ride is an Interceptor.

yamaha wrote: Precisely my point, you can get a C50 Suzuki which is nicer than a sportster, for about 6k.....it's just as quick, more reliable, more engineering into it, etc. HD is honestly a fashion accessory. They're not the best for the price by any means, people buy them to either look cool or due to brand loyalty.

It would seem as the least expensive C50 is a C50T (800CC) Classic (2012) is $7999 MSRP; maybe they sell them new for $6K...which would really suck if you want to sell a used one. That $7999 price is the same as an 883 Sportster. The Suzuki, which again is an 800, is configured and looks more like a Softail Deluxe, which is a 1690cc and is a few dozen pounds heavier...and a lot more expensive at about $17K. It is a very different bike than a Sportster. I think that for the money they are nice bikes. But there is nothing special or memorable about them. Its a nice first cruiser...

Also, Pres--The Revolution V-Rod engine is a 60* motor. It is still very much state-of-the-art. Please get the facts straight.

Here's how many Harley owners imagine themselves--

and here's reality--

What's interesting to me is the argument for buying Harleys since they are American. What that implies is that it is better for the US if the Michigan State Police (and others for that matter) bought Amercian-made motorcycles as opposed to "foreign" motorcycles. That argument gets a little muddy though when you look at the overall economic impact H-D has had on our country vs. BMW.

As Curmudgeon pointed out, BMW happens to have a pretty large assembly plant in SC. By published accounts, that plant has had a $2.2 billion impact on our country. I'm not sure how many motorcycles H-D has produced over the years, but my gut tells me that BMW USA is more important to our GDP than H-D.

The same argument applies to much in the automotive world now. Honda in Ohio, Mercedes in Alabama, Chevrolet in Canada, etc.

In reply to ST_ZX2:

A different angle that doesn't make sense from an engineering standpoint? Let me guess, "characteristic H-D sound & vibration" edicts from the marketing department?