Modern car controls are idiotic and I hate them.

Thought about posting this to the minor rant thread but this is a major rant.

Drove my mom's BMW 116i a bit yesterday. It really drove home how much I hate the driver interface of new cars and where it all went wrong.

Since the early 1900s cars had been steadily progressing and converging toward useful, straightforward and standardized controls...and then in the last couple of decades we started to throw it all away for new whiz-bang geegaws that do the exact same things in novel ways if you can ever figure them out.

We had a nice system with a key that turns to control power and start the car, stalks that move up and down, forward and back, and twist (with the occasional end-button) in generally uniform ways to control the lights, indicators and wipers. The state of these could be checked by feeling the position of the stalks (or key). Once you knew how to operate those you could pick up & drive any production car easily.

Now we have stupid little keyfobs that you have to stick into the dash and remove somehow, and push-button starters that simply take up more dash space and have literally confused a few people to death. Cars that won't start or give you your goddamn keys back unless you - would you ever guess this? - press the brake pedal. Mechanical stalks replaced with something very much like an arcade game's digital joysticks mounted sideways, which now force you to mentally keep track of the state of your wipers and indicators, and read about or figure out which direction on the "joystick" does what, lest your car look like it's having a seizure with the indicators and wipers going crazy, like what happened to me yesterday. And then there are weird little scroll wheels which again give no ability to check the state of a device by feel and whose function can only be learned by experimentation or RTFMing, like you're trying to learn the arguments of a CLI program.

I'm all for change that makes things better, but this is making things worse. Much like swapping knobs & sliders for touchscreen controls that you can't use without looking away from the road.

The PCA chapter I did the HPDE with goes so far as to include a handy multi-page booklet with your registration. It includes color photos of all the control buttons and describes what they affect and how it pretains to street and to track driving. Even with their help, I couldn't find a single one of them. It's a wonder I didn't die on track.

Preach it, brother. GM was notorious for this in the late '90s / early '00s. Now it seems everybody is lining up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUWVYrpd-3g

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a28121/nhtsa-investigates-jeep-dodge-chrysler-shifters/ http://blog.caranddriver.com/nhtsa-investigating-jeep-grand-cherokee-for-rolling-when-parked/

I totally agree Gameboy.

I went through a Master’s Degree program in Human Factors Engineering years ago…we’re the people that design all of this crap but our core principles tell us it’s going to be horrible.

A fellow HFE named Don Norman wrote a classic book titled “The Design of Everyday Things”. In the book, he specifically used automotive system user interfaces as an example of doing things right (this was in the 90’s) because individual controls only served one purpose and were logically grouped in space by function….find one HVAC control (say fan speed) and you know everything else associated with the HVAC system (say temperature) would be in the same cluster, have the same directionality (right = higher / left = lower), order of operation, etc.

I travel a fair amount for work which puts me in many different rental cars. I don’t want to Berkley around fiddling with the controls or waste time reading the manual…I don’t ask for much, just cool the air, blast some hair metal, and immediately shut up when my girlfriend (Siri) gives me directions.

New cars absolutely suck at satisfying my user needs…just make a bizzilion of these and be done:

+1 to all of this.

Some of the items you mention are done in the name of safety, like ignition interlocks that prevent you from starting a car in gear with no brakes and running someone over or taking the key out at highway speeds and locking the steering wheel. Some "safety" items I really don't understand, and the idea that there is no standard for where lights and wipers go, which direction to pull for a downshift or how to reset the trip meter is crazy.

The thing that really gets me is the freaking clock. One tiny button to set the hour, another to set the minutes. HOW HARD IS THAT? Why do I need to have the car in Park, lights on, left turn signal stalk pulled in, glove door open and then enter a series of carefully coordinated inputs on the seek selector button in hexadecimal code to update my clock for daylights savings?!?!?

Or just let the clock set itself via GPS, easier yet

I looked at how to stop the new Miata using the stop-start button when driving. Answer: multiple rapid pushes or one long push. ie, exactly what you would do if you were freaking out.

Interestingly, there's no indication that the car has a steering lock.

pinchvalve wrote: Some of the items you mention are done in the name of safety, like ignition interlocks that prevent you from starting a car in gear with no brakes and running someone over or taking the key out at highway speeds and locking the steering wheel.

Those ideas could make sense if done in a different way. The ignition interlock could run off the VSS system instead of requiring the brake pedal to be pressed - I'd think it would be more foolproof that way as well. If VSS isn't zero, key stays in ignition, and if any part fails you'll still be free to pull the key out.

As for preventing the car from being started in gear, I thought cars had neutral switches for that. Personally I'd like to have the option of cranking the starter in gear in case of a breakdown or emergency. Again a neutral switch would be more foolproof - you can probably press the brake pedal just enough to trigger the switch without slowing the car down at all (similar to the "towing regen" trick you can do with EVs).

I'm all for the death of mechanical keys. As far as I'm concerned, the less of this E36 M3 that I have to carry around in my skinny jeans pocket, the better.

Keith Tanner wrote: Interestingly, there's no indication that the car has a steering lock.

My Mazda2 didn't have a steering lock. It was nice.

GameboyRMH wrote: whiz-bang geegaws

RX Reven' wrote:

Funny - perhaps one of the worst control layouts for the 80s - i.e. wipers on a stalk - unless you want delayed wipe, that's a tiny rocker switch under the dash. Interior lights are a little potentiometer wheel under the dash, nowhere near the other light controls, ignition key on the left, floor hinged pedals, part of the hvac system are levers by the seat, other parts are on the dash and some controls are in the console... Don't get me wrong - would sell body parts for another one, and other than switchgear, is very intuitive - just a funny example to throw out as an example of decent design compared to new stuff.

I don't get the hate for bmw's i-drive. It's really easy to use. I am surprised how much I like being able to walk up to my car, touch the door handle and it unlocks, hop in, hit the button and it's running. The turn signals and wipers are infuriating.

I recently had my old BMW in the shop and was given a newer 5 series as a loaner, so I had to figure out how to use the iDrive knob on the console to adjust the heater and radio.

For ages and ages, the radio in every car had one knob to adjust the volume and one knob to change the channel, and the heater in every car had one knob (or slider) to set the temperature and one knob to adjust the blower speed. You could get in any car and you could adjust those things without looking away from the road. They shouldn't require having to page through multiple screens.

Just went thru this with SWMBO - she and my MIL (dont get me started on her, I have to go to her house to put the batteries in her smoke alarm) needed to take the Cruze on a day trip out of town. On the way back, as its starting to get dark, I had to help her make sure the headlights were on

"They come on automatically, dont touch anything" I say
"I think I fiddled with some things"
"what did you mess with? theres a small round knob on the dash, turn it all the way to the right"
"my right, or your right?"
"what...just turn it clockwise till it stops"
"how do you know theyre on?" ...went on for 5 minutes...ridiculous

but its for the children?!?

Jay wrote: my skinny jeans pocket

Jay wrote: I'm all for the death of mechanical keys. As far as I'm concerned, the less of this E36 M3 that I have to carry around in my skinny jeans pocket, the better.

My mechanical key is probably 1/4 the size of a modern keyfob.

oldtin wrote:

RX Reven' wrote:

Funny - perhaps one of the worst control layouts for the 80s - i.e. wipers on a stalk - unless you want delayed wipe, that's a tiny rocker switch under the dash. Interior lights are a little potentiometer wheel under the dash, nowhere near the other light controls, ignition key on the left, floor hinged pedals, part of the hvac system are levers by the seat, other parts are on the dash and some controls are in the console... Don't get me wrong - would sell body parts for another one, and other than switchgear, is very intuitive - just a funny example to throw out as an example of decent design compared to new stuff. I don't get the hate for bmw's i-drive. It's really easy to use. I am surprised how much I like being able to walk up to my car, touch the door handle and it unlocks, hop in, hit the button and it's running. The turn signals and wipers are infuriating.

Point Taken.

My dad had two Porsche’s and I remember them having all kinds of dumb stuff….one of the gages (fuel???) even moved to the right as the value went down…doah!

Our 2016 Ford Explorer has the fuel door side indicator (little gas pump icon with a triangle pointer) on the left of the fuel gage with the triangle pointing to the right…doah!

I realize they’re putting the icon next to the empty position on the fuel gage but a triangle is not an arrow so the indication is ambiguous....the icon’s placement suggests left side fuel door but the triangle suggests right side fuel door.

Berk it, I guess I’ll just do a 90 degree E-Brake slid up to the pump to cover all bases.

My one gripe about the ND Miata is they put a stupid "I-Drive" type controller on the center console--- directly where your right elbow rests. Nearly every time I drive the car I inadvertently hit the damn controller and change the radio station. It really pisses me off--- and it's not the sort of thing you'll ever get used to. It's just a bad ergonomic design thrown in to accommodate the gadget / tech loving masses. The rest of the car is absolutely brilliant, but that stupid controller, and the tacked-on screen popping out of the dash are big fails in an otherwise amazing machine.

Don't want the dial to do anything? Either go to the home screen (one button) or just turn the screen off (click, twist, twist, click).

Poor Mazda is getting a lot of grief for that screen. But where else could it go? Making it motorized would have added weight, and it's a small car. Weirdly, there would have been lots of room for it in 1990. With the onset of required backup cameras in 2017, you can't really do without a screen in a modern car.

stuart in mn wrote: I recently had my old BMW in the shop and was given a newer 5 series as a loaner, so I had to figure out how to use the iDrive knob on the console to adjust the heater and radio. For ages and ages, the radio in every car had one knob to adjust the volume and one knob to change the channel, and the heater in every car had one knob (or slider) to set the temperature and one knob to adjust the blower speed. You could get in any car and you could adjust those things without looking away from the road. They shouldn't require having to page through multiple screens.

What 5 series is this? The one at work 2015 535d has knobs both for temperature and radio volume ... no need to go through the idrive.

Keith Tanner wrote: Don't want the dial to do anything? Either go to the home screen (one button) or just turn the screen off (click, twist, twist, click). Poor Mazda is getting a lot of grief for that screen. But where else could it go? Making it motorized would have added weight, and it's a small car. Weirdly, there would have been lots of room for it in 1990. With the onset of required backup cameras in 2017, you can't really do without a screen in a modern car.

Actually, you can. GM has gotten it approved to put the screen in the rear view mirror.

Plus, there are plenty of cars out there with smaller screens than the one in the Miata.

as for the complaint.. funny. This group so much pretends to be tech savvy, and is really more "get off my lawn".

Joe Gearin wrote: stupid "I-Drive" type controller on the center console--- directly where your right elbow rests.

Like, are you actually resting your elbow there and not your forearm? Because that would take some freakishly long arms.

I hate most steering wheel mounted controls, because I have huge hands, and I hit buttons accidentally every time I go around a corner. My XC90 isn't too bad, but I still find myself listening to a different radio station every now and then.

I had some sort of captive Daewoo Chevrolet for a while, and I never- not once- turned a corner without changing something.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I hate most steering wheel mounted controls, because I have huge hands, and I hit buttons accidentally every time I go around a corner. My XC90 isn't too bad, but I still find myself listening to a different radio station every now and then. I had some sort of captive Daewoo Chevrolet for a while, and I never- not once- turned a corner without changing something.

That's the problem designers and product plannets run into. For everything somebody hates there is somebody that likes it. I LOVE steering wheel controls. I use them all the time. I guess if you can make something 51% of people like you are a success.