I've not spent much time on bikes on road in the USA. But man, driving the Vespa in traffic in Rome was probably the most fun I've had on the road. Second only to maybe touring Rome at 2:00 AM on the Vespa. My wife, riding on back, wasn't having quite as much fun though.
Hope you don't have any issues getting your car fixed.
There are conventions to lane splitting that make it easier to see riders. For example, 99% of the time, they are traveling between the 1 and 2 lane. The extent of my inconvenience is that I need to shift to one side of the lane or other for 1 second, simply as a courtesy. Not so bad.
They split lanes on the Merritt Parkway in CT, even in construction zones with lanes that are barely wide enough to contain a vehicle. I find it very dangerous, as most people in traffic never check their rear view mirror.
novaderrik wrote: why do people on 2 wheels get special privileges that people in 4 wheels don't? y'all can wait in line like everyone else..
Because they actually relieve congestion. A bike splitting lanes is essentially a car that is not in rush hour traffic. Lane splitting doesn't slow anyone else down.
Think of it like a giant morning line at a coffee shop where everyone is trying to order some fancy ass espresso drink. Then one person walks to the side of the line, goes strait to the counter to the side of someone ordering, slaps exact change down, grabs a paper cup, and walks over to the drip coffee station against the wall and serves themselves out of the carafe. People might get angry that he was served before them, but he hasn't actually slowed them down. Then three more people who were waiting in line wise up, step out of line, and do the exact same thing. Now everyone behind them gets their fancy espresso drink faster.
Beer Baron wrote: Because they actually relieve congestion. A bike splitting lanes is essentially a car that is *not* in rush hour traffic. Lane splitting doesn't slow anyone else down.
Spoiler alert: nobody gives the slllllliiiiiigggghhhhhhhtttttteeeessssstttttt E36 M3 about that.
Especially when at the end of the day, most riders I've ever saw try to attempt it do it in as dangerous of a manner as possible. Luckily, its not legal up here, and I don't know how wide your lanes are, but if two trucks are side by side there just isn't enough room to safely do this. Additionally, it is inherently dangerous as it puts you directly in people's blind spots with no room to maneuver out of the way.
Basically, your arguments are invalid. And if people started riding motorcycles en mass, I can tell you people would be even more pissed when 10 bikes "filtered" their way to the front of the line which would cause a berkeleying commotion and disaster at a set of lights.
But you won't understand this with your blinders on after having drank the koolaid so hard that motorcyclists somehow deserve to have rules that everyone else don't.
In reply to HiTempguy:
Actually, every study done says that lane splitting is either no more dangerous, or less dangerous than staying line during traffic.
American Motorcycle Association is in favor.
UC Berkeley study finds lower risk of injury for lane-splitting.
Studies conducted in California show it is no more dangerous.
Yes, people being dicks and zipping between cars at speed is dangerous, but that's not what we're talking about. There are situations where people can't or shouldn't lane split. It is not something you do all the time. It is an option you should be able to use when the situation calls for it.
You only see lane splitters as irresponsible dicks who don't care about the law because it isn't legal where you live. The people willing to lane split already don't care about laws and etiquette. Where lane splitting is legal, most riders who lane split are the relatively responsible ones. When lane splitting is against the rules, only people who don't care about rules lane split. Your laws against lane splitting don't prevent irresponsible riders from riding irresponsibly, they only limit the options responsible riders have.
Or maybe I'm just libertarian. If my actions don't harm others, I should be able to do what I want. The burden of proof should be on the person who wants to limit my actions to explain why it is a problem, not on me to explain why it is beneficial. (Yes, I realize the OP get some body damage to their car because of a motorcycle lane-splitting, and was thus harmed, but the probability of that is no higher than any other shiny happy person on the road doing body damage, and the probability of a lane-splitting motorcycle causing someone else serious injury is even lower.)
So, by that rational, I should just sit at a light for minute after minute after minute because the light sensor doesn't trip, even though I'm allowed to run the red after 120 seconds of wait? Because you can't?
Nope.
yamaha wrote: In reply to aircooled: Nova has been sounding more and more like he is cut from the same cloth as the guy in TX that ended up in witness protection for saying he'd hit motorcycles for "Not looking out for him"
nope.. quite the opposite, actually. i don't ride, but i grew up around motorcycle riders- the old school dirtball Harley riders that everyone tries to emulate every weekend.
i just want everyone to follow the same rules that i have to follow when i'm on the road in my "cage"- i don't get to skip around everyone else at lights and i don't get to drive side by side in packs of 50, so why should they?
i don't know why everyone that rides something with less than 4 wheels on public highways thinks they own the freakin road and everyone has to accommodate them just because they chose to ride something that is smaller than everything else. we all own the road equally so we all have to share equally.
Because motorcycles are not cars. Should you have to wear a helmet in the car because I have to wear one on the bike? Equal is equal.
A seatbelt in not really equivalent to a helmet.
Two mini's side by side in a lane? If they fit, WHY NOT? I really don't get this! How is this affecting you!?!?!
To the OP. Really sorry about your car, that sucks. Amazing that that much damage was caused. You seem to have a good attitude about it though.
Sorry that the thread has gone a different direction.
HiTempguy wrote:ProDarwin wrote: FWIW, it isn't legal here, but I lane split (or "filter") on my bicycle all the time. Id rather try and race the first car through the intersection than go through with traffic doing 20 or 30mph faster than me.You're the shiny happy person that backs up traffic by doing this? Awesome."I'm just going to get my slow ass to the front of the line and then peddle at 30km/h in the 50 zone, sorry everyone, sucks to suck!"
Sitting at the back of the line at a light causes much more of a backup because I'm holding up traffic that hasn't yet had the opportunity to move to the left lane for a left turn or right lane for a right turn. Additionally, when the light turns green, if I'm 15 cars back, I will only be traveling at ~25mph through the intersection where traffic should be doing 40 or 50 (but they won't, because the freak out because biker in intersection). It slows other drivers way the berkeley down. Sitting between the RH lane and the CTR lane at the light holds up nobody. I will beat the first car through the light 99% of the time and there is substantial room to pass once through the intersection.
I view it as courtesy. If I'm biking I will try to inconvenience other drivers as little as possible.
novaderrik wrote: i just want everyone to follow the same rules that i have to follow when i'm on the road in my "cage"- i don't get to skip around everyone else at lights and i don't get to drive side by side in packs of 50, so why should they?
Because a car would impede the flow of traffic and/or block emergency lanes. A bike or two doesn't.
Datsun1500 wrote: It doesn't affect me, and I don't really care that much. I just have the same "why do I need to accommodate you because you decided to drive a vehicle with a greater risk" feeling that the guy you replied to has.
You don't need to accommodate the motorcyclist lane splitting. If they are doing it properly, it should have no impact on your drive whatsoever. All you have to do is not actively try to murder us because you think it's unfair we get to keep moving when everyone else stops.
Although we appreciate people looking for us, we don't expect them to. We expect people to not see us, change lanes suddenly, turn left without looking, and to stop 2' from the rear bumper of the car in front of us.
On topic: man, that sucks about the car. Glad everyone is okay. Hopefully the guy's insurance covers the damages.
ProDarwin wrote:HiTempguy wrote:Sitting at the back of the line at a light causes much more of a backup because I'm holding up traffic that hasn't yet had the opportunity to move to the left lane for a left turn or right lane for a right turn. Additionally, when the light turns green, if I'm 15 cars back, I will only be traveling at ~25mph through the intersection where traffic should be doing 40 or 50 (but they won't, because the *freak out* because biker in intersection). It slows other drivers way the berkeley down. Sitting between the RH lane and the CTR lane at the light holds up nobody. I will beat the first car through the light 99% of the time and there is substantial room to pass once through the intersection. I view it as courtesy. If I'm biking I will try to inconvenience other drivers as little as possible.ProDarwin wrote: FWIW, it isn't legal here, but I lane split (or "filter") on my bicycle all the time. Id rather try and race the first car through the intersection than go through with traffic doing 20 or 30mph faster than me.You're the shiny happy person that backs up traffic by doing this? Awesome.
if you're biking, do everyone a courtesy and find trails or at least do it out in rural areas where there isn't as much traffic..
In reply to novaderrik:
Scratch rural areas for cyclists, I'm tired of taking extendable batons from these pricks.....
I'm trying to illustrate the fact that the motive world is full of inequalities. Should I have to accommodate the guy towing a trailer doing 5 under the limit? Or the semi making wide right turns because he chose to drive a 70 foot long vehicle? I could go on forever, my point is, yes, you have to accommodate dissimilar vehicles.
I am surprised that doesn't happen far more often to be honest. I spend an hour or so a day in 30 mph traffic, and there is a fairly steady stream of harleys and touring bikes with boxes on the back going 60+ between the carpool lane and last lane of normal traffic.
Appleseed wrote: I'm trying to illustrate the fact that the motive world is full of inequalities. Should I have to accommodate the guy towing a trailer doing 5 under the limit? Or the semi making wide right turns because he chose to drive a 70 foot long vehicle? I could go on forever, my point is, yes, you have to accommodate dissimilar vehicles.
accommodate- yes..
let them do whatever the hell they want and not expect people to get sick of dealing with them- no.
someone pointed out earlier that when they split lanes, the bikes are essentially creating another lane and alleviating traffic... if that's the case, then why don't we move the painted lines around to give them their own lane like they do for people that carpool and what not. charge them extra and let them drive past everyone else without the need to put themselves in an extra dangerous situation... if not, then they can play by the same rules as everyone else..
same goes with bicycles: if they want to drive around on the roads and be a part of traffic, then sell them a damn license like all the motorized vehicles that they share the road with.
ProDarwin wrote: Sitting at the back of the line at a light causes much more of a backup because I'm holding up traffic that hasn't yet had the opportunity to move to the left lane for a left turn or right lane for a right turn. Additionally, when the light turns green, if I'm 15 cars back, I will only be traveling at ~25mph through the intersection where traffic should be doing 40 or 50 (but they won't, because the *freak out* because biker in intersection). It slows other drivers way the berkeley down. Sitting between the RH lane and the CTR lane at the light holds up nobody. I will beat the first car through the light 99% of the time and there is substantial room to pass once through the intersection. I view it as courtesy. If I'm biking I will try to inconvenience other drivers as little as possible.
I'm afraid you are incorrect here, at least with the traffic I ride in. Like I said, I've been doing this for about two years now. I accelerate about as fast as cars do through these types of intersections. Nobody is waiting for me to get through. Usually, I'm waiting for the car in front of me to get going. The exception to this is if I'm first at the light, then I'll stay to the side of the lane in hopes the car will wait next to me (often because we need his weight to trigger the light sensor). Sometimes they're hesitant and I have to actually wave them forward. I do not run red lights and slow for stop signs about the same as cars do.
Roads in Lower Bucks PA are incredibly narrow often with no shoulder at all. So for me, the 4' rule is a bit B.S. But I've been riding in traffic for over 30 years. Not much phases me. It seems to help that drivers around here are used to bikes on the roads, so it's rarely an issue. I did 101 miles last weekend through PA and NJ without an incident. I'll admit over the years I've adjusted the route to avoid heavy traffic roads as much as possible, but for the first 10 miles or so leaving my house and these roads are unavoidable.
Lane splitting is unlawful in Illinois, isn't relevant to me, and I'm done with this thread. I've said my peace. Appleseed out.
Toebra wrote: Camera is facing N on Business 80, which goes roughly N to S and is sort of an extension of 99. On the E St camera, between the H St and 16th St labels, next to the Hwy 50 emblem, center right. Just hover your cursor over it and it gives you a new picture every minute or so, you can see an on ramp on the R side of the freeway, we stopped where the shoulder on the L goes away from the lanes on the R. It is right were it goes from 4 lanes to 3, with on ramps at J St and E St where it does that. He hit me right about where the on ramp merges.
I have no idea what the significance of that picture is supposed to be.
Appleseed wrote: Woah! That's a big assed dent. Way worse than I expected.
He was going pretty fast
Beer Baron wrote: Yes, people being dicks and zipping between cars at speed is dangerous, but that's not what we're talking about.
Actually, that is exactly the subject here, if you look at the pictures and read the story.
Travis_K wrote: I am surprised that doesn't happen far more often to be honest. I spend an hour or so a day in 30 mph traffic, and there is a fairly steady stream of harleys and touring bikes with boxes on the back going 60+ between the carpool lane and last lane of normal traffic.
Those guys are doing it wrong.
If you look closely at the pictures I posted, you can see where the rear quarter is buckled behind the point where the foot peg struck the car. Have to be a pretty good impact to do that. I am VERY cognizant of lane splitters and this guy got me anyway. I wish I had video of it, because it was truly astounding that the guy did not go down
The Ti Gray curse strikes again. Glad you are ok and uninjured. My MSM is Lava Orange and so far has escaped being hit by anything - hopefully it stays that way.
novaderrik wrote: why do people on 2 wheels get special privileges that people in 4 wheels don't? y'all can wait in line like everyone else..
It's none of your concern, really. You can't fit in that hole.
Do you get mad at people who can reach the top shelf when you can't? Or are strong enough to open the pickle jar and you have to ask for help? Do you get pissed off at people in jeeps that can drive down dirt shortcuts? Would it bother you if someone with better tools could fix a car faster than you?
Why do you care if I get there before you if I'm not slowing you down in the process?
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