My turn to ask for insurance advice - To claim or not to claim

Due to a combination of slick roads, chronic low temperatures, single-digit overnight temps, and lack of experience, my daughter had a chance to introduce the Saab to a guardrail this morning.  There are no injuries, but the car did take a bit of a hit:

It was in a spot where there was no opportunity to get it off of the road so that I could come back with the trailer to winch it up myself and the radiator and oil cooler were both punctured, so driving it wasn't going to be an option.  The police had it towed to a local shop where I'll deal with it on Monday.

I've got collision coverage on it with a $1,000 deductible but no rental car coverage on this particular vehicle.  What's the smart move here?

a) Just call the insurance company and let them do their thing?

b) Have the shop do an estimate and then call the insurance company?

c) Pay the shop for their towing services and then trailer it back to the shop and try to repair myself?  (even if it means not fixing the crunched-up fender)

As I understand it, that fender that's all crunched up is welded on and, thus, difficult to repair.  I wasn't able to really get a good look at the car at that point to see if it's "just a bumper" or if there's something really tweaked.  I don't yet know how fast she was going so I don't have any real scale for how much impact there was, but I can tell you that there was no way to tell where she hit the guardrail unless you followed the oil trail from the car and looked at the various plastic bits on the ground.  I don't know how insurance companies decide values on things, but kbb doesn't go back to 1990 but both Edmunds and NADA/JD Power put the "average retail" value at around $6k.  There is a police report out there, so I don't know how that effects future rates versus making a claim.

I don't see the insurance company as some evil entity out to screw me, but at the same time I don't want to inject myself into their processes unless I'll get a net benefit out of the deal.  I'd hate to make a claim to find out that I'm going to get zero dollars after my deductible, no car, and raised rates.  Financially-speaking, I can walk away from the car without having to worry about how I'm going to feed the family or pay the mortgage.  All told, I'm into the car for right around $2,000 at this stage.  I do, however, like the car - as does my daughter - so I wouldn't mind being able to keep it.  I just don't know what the smart play is here.

To me the math doesn't work for a claim. You're into the car for $2k. Between the deductible and the (assumed) raised rates, that $2k will be eaten up quick. I think based on the age and parts availability it's a total loss to them, so you're ending up without the car anyway. I'd do option C, but probably just look for another SAAB and be done. She took a good hit and no injuries, that's worth $2k, it owes you nothing. 

Unfortunately the car is going to considered a total loss in the eyes of the insurance company.  So start from there.  Do you want to let the insurance company have it and pay you for the value, do you want to buy it back from them or would you rather just try to deal with it yourself?  From the photos, I would not recommend the last option simply because I think there's more damage than you think.

So let's say you're going through insurance.  Call them right away so they can get started.  They will move the car to the salvage company they use (Copart or IAA), so make sure you clean the car out now.  From there they will work on the value.  98% of insurance companies use a third party electronic evaluation tool, with CCC being the biggest.  They are pretty darn good at valuing a 2015 Honda Accord or 2019 Nissan Rogue.  They are not so good at a nearly 35 year old Swedish car.  There simply aren't enough of them around to get a strong value based on their algorithms.  Therefore, I would strongly recommend finding as many comparables as you can.  The more local the better, but in this case there probably aren't many.  Calmly and factually point out the value of the car, using the comps you found.  Remember that the vast majority of adjusters aren't car guys or girls, so you will need to explain it to them.  

At the end of the day, I recommend calling insurance, just have your details ready so that you can show it's true value.  Best of luck and let me know if you need help!  Even though I retired, I am still actively auditing insurance claims... 

Steve_Jones said:

To me the math doesn't work for a claim. You're into the car for $2k. Between the deductible and the (assumed) raised rates, that $2k will be eaten up quick. I think based on the age and parts availability it's a total loss to them, so you're ending up without the car anyway. I'd do option C, but probably just look for another SAAB and be done. She took a good hit and no injuries, that's worth $2k, it owes you nothing. 

Hey, we agree on something!! .   Yes, if he's inclined to just walk away from it and "eat" the $2k he's into it this is the right path.  You could part it out a bit to recoup some money. 

If insurance gave you what you had into it you'd still be out the $1000 deductible so now the car is costing you $1000 to keep.

I go C - fix yourself, sell it or part it out. I wouldn't involve insurance.

Was this your daughter?

Glad to hear she's ok.

When I have a car that drops below about $4k in value, I tend to ditch the comp/collision and do liability only.  That is variable based on the car and its use.  For instance, I have full coverage on my DD work van because it's a chevy, parts are cheap, and it's likely worth 8k.  The chances of it being totaled by an accident are a little smaller, and the loss of utility transport if it were stolen would suck.

The Lincoln I only paid $3k for.  Parts are becoming unobtanium, so full coverage doesn't help me since it would get totaled by just a broken HID headlight and a bumper.  That doesn't help me retain the car, it just means it disappears or gets an R title if I make a claim.  I figure why should I pay an extra $83 every six months when I can just save that money and buy the parts to fix it myself.  Theft is super-rare around here, especially for a 97 Lincoln, so I figure just get liability to be legal.  It's all a gamble.

I agree that your Saab will get written off, unless that vintage of Saab is particlarly valuable and I didn't know it.  I would find some used body panels and bolt them on, take a sledge to re-adjust the radiator core, and drive it.

I also am VERY glad that everyone is ok.  Sorry about the car.

Hope your daughter is OK.

I'm pretty much in agreement with SKJSS - that's going to be totaled if you claim on the insurance. I don't like the way the front bumper looks so if you were to look into repairing it, there might be more damage than is feasible to fix. Not to mention the OK but not great spares situation for old SAABs.

I'm not sure it's worth claiming. I have similar deductibles on most of my vehicles, and taking the hit on the insurance rates for what might be a $1k payout (but maybe more) might not be worth it depending on your situation.

Check with your agent and have them ask underwriting about rates.  I'm a claims guy so not a foremost expert on rating, however my understanding is that if you report the claim but then withdrawal it there's no impact on rates.  If that's the case, you can start down insurance and see what they offer you. 

Was she sited?  Violation?  

If yes, in no way would I speak with insurance company.  You don't want to tip them off to a young driver with a violation.  Rate increase will ensue.  The rates still may go up but at least wait for the InsCo to find that themselves rather than proactively alerting them.  

Get the car back to your property asap.  Towing elsewhere will also tack on storage fees. 

Agree with everyone else, leave insurance out of it. Likely not worth a DIY repair either, unless you have a parts car sitting in your driveway currently

Thanks for the input, and of course keep it coming!

My daughters are both fine.  The eldest, who was driving, kept apologizing to me for runing the car, but I've been reassuring her that I don't really care about it and that considering she and her sister are unhurt, no one else was hurt, and another car wasn't coming the other direction at the time, she has bought herself some cheap experience.

I cannot imagine that the car wouldn't be totaled out if/when insurance got a hold of it.  Even if you assumed that it had the highest valuation that NADA gives for it - $8000 - there's no way that a shop would have less than $6k into the repair.  That fender is welded on so very labor-intensive and parts availability is difficult at best.  Even if I only needed to replace the bumper, oil cooler, radiator, headlight, under-bumper-plastic-section, and grille, we're talking about around $1,500, best case.  And I'm not even sure if there is a fender out there.

As far as I am aware, Kentucky doesn't do citations for accidents unless the officer is there and sees it happen.  I found that very strange about Ohio many moons ago when I slid while trying to make a right turn, downhill, on wet pavement and understeered into a car that was waiting to turn left off of that street.  I walked away from that with a ticket for failure to maintain control which seemed kind of stupid, but whatever.  At any rate, in this incident my daughter was given reassurances and empathy from the officers, not a ticket.

Oh, and perhaps I should clarify what I mean by "fix".  If I were to pull this into the shop and work on it, my goal would be more "return to service" as opposed to "fix".  I'd need to look at it first, of course, but I'd be replacing the radiator and oil cooler so that more of the fluids would remain captive, bend the fender back enough to be able to try to mount [a|the] bumper with enough clearance to be able to get the headlights re-attached.

I suppose what drives the insurance question, though, is how extreme will my rate increase be?  A check for $1k today that means that I need to pay them an extra $1k a year isn't worth it.  But $3k now for $500/yr might be a slightly less bad idea, right?  Am I right in thinking that the question of turning it into the insurance company (Safeco, if that matters) is a decision made based on where I think they'd value the car versus how much they'd raise my rates?

No way to really tell how much the rates will go up, but it seems like rates are going up with no issues, why give them an excuse? I'd also think if something else happens in the next 2 years that is bad enough to claim, do I want that to be the first, or second claim on a younger driver?

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

Check with your agent and have them ask underwriting about rates.  I'm a claims guy so not a foremost expert on rating, however my understanding is that if you report the claim but then withdrawal it there's no impact on rates.  If that's the case, you can start down insurance and see what they offer you. 

It's been a while, but when I worked for State Farm, even a denied claim still stayed on your record as a claim. 

There was no such thing as "withdrawing a claim." Technically you can't get a legally binding answer without filing a claim, although we could tell the agents what was going to be covered before filiing a claim. 

But like Steve said from the start, don't file a claim, just deal with it yourself.

Years ago DD#1 did something similar with her first car; at the time a 10-11 year old base Impreza. It was drivable but similarly tweaked. I was in it for about the same $2k.

I drove it to a body shop guy I trusted. As soon as the repair estimate got over the value of the car, I sold it to him with the clean title for $500.  I have no idea if he scrapped it or fixed it to flip.

DD#2 also did something similar with her Impala, but it only involved the very front of the fender and headlight.  I pulled the front fascia off, hammered the fender out, and put a set of Depot headlights in it.

Sorry about the accident, but glad to hear your daughters are unhurt.

John Welsh said:

Get the car back to your property asap.  Towing elsewhere will also tack on storage fees. 

Never ever let an insurance company "take" your car. Possession is still 9/10. I do not care about their arbitrary rules and policies. Especially when it involves towards 30 days and now you get hit with associated storage fees because the claim isn't settled. They have mobile adjusters for a reason. 

I should turn in my claims on the Avalanche and they will probably total it because I have a literal hole in the roof from kicked up road debris, which will entail taking out the sail panels, storage boxes, headliner, plus have to fix the cracked out bondo from a previous repair, and a rubber gator taking out of the the rh fender liner, bumper cover, bumper, and door....

Curtis, why don't you look at collectors insurance for the mark? Let them find the parts to fix it.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

Check with your agent and have them ask underwriting about rates.  I'm a claims guy so not a foremost expert on rating, however my understanding is that if you report the claim but then withdrawal it there's no impact on rates.  If that's the case, you can start down insurance and see what they offer you. 

Yes, I did this once.  I had hail damage on a Toyota many years ago.  Since it destroyed 3 out of 6 windows and damaged every panel, they totaled it, but gave me three options:  Deny the claim, turn it in and get a check minus my deductible, or keep the car and get a check minus deductible and the buyback value.  On that particular car, I chose the last option and they paid me to keep my car.  I replaced three windows with junkyard parts and kept driving it with an R title in golf ball form.

I wouldn't talk to insurance for a car with a value that low (no offense). I also imagine your rates are high enough already with young drivers on the policy. Honestly I would only have liability/UM on a car like this.

z31maniac said:

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

Check with your agent and have them ask underwriting about rates.  I'm a claims guy so not a foremost expert on rating, however my understanding is that if you report the claim but then withdrawal it there's no impact on rates.  If that's the case, you can start down insurance and see what they offer you. 

It's been a while, but when I worked for State Farm, even a denied claim still stayed on your record as a claim. 

There was no such thing as "withdrawing a claim." Technically you can't get a legally binding answer without filing a claim, although we could tell the agents what was going to be covered before filiing a claim. 

But like Steve said from the start, don't file a claim, just deal with it yourself.

Sure you can withdrawal a claim anytime you want.  Happens routinely.  The claim is still on record but it's considered "closed without payment" or CWP in insurance lingo.  The part I'm not 100% certain on is if it impacts rates.  For the carriers I worked for over the years it didn't to my knowledge.  Often there is some sort of threshold where paying above that amount raises rates.  For example, windshield claims don't raise rates with my carrier.  That's a question for underwriting and the best way to find that out is to go to the agent.  They probably can't say the precise amount of an increase, if any, but can say yes or no.  I am presuming the Saab to be worth decent money.  However if it's truly only worth $2k I would completely agree with just handling it yourself.  Get it out of storage immediately and then part it or whatever. 

Big +1 for Option C. The higher up-front cost of repairing the car yourself will quickly be made back in insurance savings, and you might consider the decreased paperwork/bureaucracy involved with that option to have a lot of value as well.

Looks like no frame damage, probably just the radiator + oil cooler, quarter panel, taillight, one headlight and all the front bits that popped off like a Mr. Potato Head

In reply to GameboyRMH :

My concern is the core support and possibly the apron.  Decent chance the core support is twisted, but a strong tree and or winch can fix that 

First off, I'm glad to hear your daughters are OK!  I have one teenage driver, with another one in 6 months, so I know the pucker factor of having them out driving in the crummy conditions most of the country has experienced lately.

I lucked out with my Mustang a few years ago.  I had front end damage (fender, hood, headlight, radiator support).  I wanted to keep the car, so I didn't file a claim.  I was able to piece it back together with minimal investment and drove it for another few years when I passed it along to a friend (with full disclosure, etc.).  I was the only one driving the car at the time, so I was comfortable with it. 

With the body parts situation with Saabs (and especially the classics like yours), I would assume just about any accident would total it because they have to return it to "like new" condition as opposed to "good enough for a teenage driver."  I'd get it home and start pulling it apart to see what makes sense as a next step, but like everyone else has said, wouldn't go through insurance unless you're looking for them to total it and start over with something else.

Ranger50 said:

Curtis, why don't you look at collectors insurance for the mark? Let them find the parts to fix it.

I have looked into it before.  Any time I researched collector's insurance, often the liability only part was more expensive than full coverage with my normal carrier, and they limit yearly mileage.  I pay next to nothing with my current company.  It has three vehicles, one with full coverage, and it's less than $500/yr.  Hagerty wanted almost that much every two months.

I do have the option of stated-value coverage which is relatively inexpensive, but again, when you find a decent fender, it's likely in Nevada, costs $450 plus $80 to ship it, and could take multiple fenders until you get one that doesn't get folded in transit.  If I insured it for $4000 stated value, it wouldn't take long to get to 80% of its value with replacement parts.