Perhaps you guys should be on the phones and writing letters to your Congressmen telling them not to support such bills. They work for you, after all. The President can't do jack if the two chambers are full of people whose constituents are fuming mad about his policies.
Osterizer wrote:SupraWes wrote: Capitalisim is failing us right now because people got greedy and cheated. Its time for some balance. Most people I know are now faced with pay cuts or layoffs, why should executives not have to face some of this stuff as well?The people failed us. Capitalism still works.
The exact same thing can be said about socialisim, if everyone does right it works.
An amusing anecdote relating to the title/original topic:
I have a set of Russian stacking dolls that are the post-Bolshevik leaders of Russia. The inner one is Lenin on out in order to Yeltsin. My 3yo (billy4) was looking at them last night and said, "Which one of them is Obama?"
He's never heard me or mrsbilly3 discuss politics, so he came up with that on his own.
Your mom's a socialist.
/thread
Salanis wrote: Your mom's a socialist. /thread
Uh, no.
The POTUS is messing in the kitchen and mixing-up enough waffles to feed the dumb-asses on his left and right; he has both sides confused and infuriated, let alone those in the middle.
Sorry, this thread is NOT over!
Salanis wrote: Your mom's a socialist. /thread
She has not now.. nor has she ever been a member of the communist party.
ignorant wrote:Salanis wrote: Your mom's a socialist. /thread
Whose mom you talking 'bout, Willis?
Twin_Cam wrote: Perhaps you guys should be on the phones and writing letters to your Congressmen telling them not to support such bills. They work for you, after all. The President can't do jack if the two chambers are full of people whose constituents are fuming mad about his policies.
Some of us have written and emailed our congressmen. We get nice letters back saying, "Thank you for letting me know your concerns but I know better than you do what you need so you can just shove off now....."
So we vote against them but there are more idiotic drones than we are and they get voted right back in.
Then we watch the same drones froth at the mouth over whatever the media tells them to believe.
Then I start wonder if there is a downside to packing it all in and falling off the grid.......
-Rob
rob_lewis wrote:Twin_Cam wrote: Perhaps you guys should be on the phones and writing letters to your Congressmen telling them not to support such bills. They work for you, after all. The President can't do jack if the two chambers are full of people whose constituents are fuming mad about his policies.Some of us have written and emailed our congressmen. We get nice letters back saying, "Thank you for letting me know your concerns but I know better than you do what you need so you can just shove off now....." So we vote against them but there are more idiotic drones than we are and they get voted right back in. Then we watch the same drones froth at the mouth over whatever the media tells them to believe. Then I start wonder if there is a downside to packing it all in and falling off the grid....... -Rob
I just turned 30. I have a preschooler and a toddler at home. I am terrified on their behalf at the thought of what this country is going to be like in another 25 years, even worse is what me may be about to go through in the next several.
I no longer labor under the delusion that I am represented by our government, I just pay to keep it going. Some of the things they do are worthwhile, but mostly they waste money. My outsider estimate is that of the money I pay in, about 2/3 of it goes to something useful. The rest? I'm just a taxpayer, a tiny cog in the machine, and no amount of letter writing is going to make a politician represent my interests over those of the people and companies who pay better.
I used to think things would get better when the oldsters (who all voted for some really weird policies that I have never agreed with) started to die off and some more progressive thought could get in there. That's another delusion I have recently given up on.
In closing, I'm bitter and cynical at 30. We're all screwed, figuratively, with a splintery broken off broomstick. The current one says "Financial Crisis care of systemic fiscal irresponsibility" on the handle, but should we manage to recover from this round of being shafted as a nation, something else will probably come along, and quick.
mad_machine wrote: I only finished paying off a massive school loan a few years ago (and I am closing in on 40, but I did go back) and in talking to a professor friend of mine, he told me exactly why schools charge so much money in tuition... because you can get loans to cover it.
Have you ever looked at the financial statements for a school? I paid nearly $40,000 a year to go to my school. It was a private school in Baltimore (Loyola). I saw their financial statements. They make JUST ENOUGH money to operate the school, pay the professors, operate student programs, and save just enough to cover the school in the event of a massive economic downturn. Literally, by the end of each semester, the school has run out of disposible income--and it was a very-well run school.
Xceler8x wrote: This article seems to run counter current to that mode of thinking.
Obama has seen the light!
His thinking has changed. (So that's the change he was bringing to Washington)
The other day the Wall Street Journal said he has learned that without the businesses (Wall Street, etc) that there are no jobs for the people he claims to represent so he's having to learn to play nice with business.
DUH!
He realized he needed their help and money to put into place his policies.
Double DUH!
FDR #2..
GO!
Cool looking logo thingy
Capitalism has never really had a chance to be proven true or false because there has always been a layer of government intervention involved. If Smith's theories were really put to the test, without so much government interference then I think we would see a successful recovery. Let the foolish folks/businesses fail and the smart ones will fill in the gaps.
DustoffDave wrote: . If Smith's theories were really put to the test, without so much government interference then I think we would see a successful recovery.
The robber barrons rose from the "purest" business environment I can think of... That turned out well... Child labor, company towns and such.
edit: just so you know.. Just playing devils adovcate.
ignorant said: The robber barrons rose from the "purest" business environment I can think of... That turned out well... Child labor, company towns and such.
Hmm, you get me thinking, good sir... Eventually, those guys were thwarted by government intervention (anit-monopoly laws and such). Don't you think that, left to their own devices they would have eventually collapsed under their own weight or brutality and better companies would have taken thier place?
DustoffDave wrote:ignorant said: The robber barrons rose from the "purest" business environment I can think of... That turned out well... Child labor, company towns and such.Hmm, you get me thinking, good sir... Eventually, those guys were thwarted by government intervention (anit-monopoly laws and such). Don't you think that, left to their own devices they would have eventually collapsed under their own weight or brutality and better companies would have taken thier place?
No.
Please, expound. Because I disagree.
DustoffDave wrote: Please, expound. Because I disagree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
ignorant wrote:DustoffDave wrote: Please, expound. Because I disagree.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
sorry thats not the link I wanted..
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30E13FD3A59177A93CAA81789D95F438385F9 check that headline out.
DustoffDave wrote: Please, expound. Because I disagree.
Humans are not inherently good. There is always someone somewhere willing to sell their grandmother to get ahead. If the price is right, we are all willing to ignore the plight of poor grandma to save a buck.
DustoffDave wrote:ignorant said: The robber barrons rose from the "purest" business environment I can think of... That turned out well... Child labor, company towns and such.Hmm, you get me thinking, good sir... Eventually, those guys were thwarted by government intervention (anit-monopoly laws and such). Don't you think that, left to their own devices they would have eventually collapsed under their own weight or brutality and better companies would have taken thier place?
And much of the reason they survived for so long is because they were treated favorably by the government. Like in the example about striking workers, police intervened to break up the strike. Various levels of government took the side of the companies over the workers.
+1 for Salanis
Although I do agree with this:
MrJoshua said: Humans are not inherently good. There is always someone somewhere willing to sell their grandmother to get ahead. If the price is right, we are all willing to ignore the plight of poor grandma to save a buck.
But I also believe that there are good people in the world who start good companies and make a lot of money without abusing their workers, I know he sent it all to charity, but look at "Newman's Own" -- extremely successful.
DustoffDave wrote: +1 for Salanis Although I do agree with this:MrJoshua said: Humans are not inherently good. There is always someone somewhere willing to sell their grandmother to get ahead. If the price is right, we are all willing to ignore the plight of poor grandma to save a buck.But I also believe that there are good people in the world who start good companies and make a lot of money without abusing their workers, I know he sent it all to charity, but look at "Newman's Own" -- extremely successful.
I would call newmans own a niche success, are they the next GE?
Salanis wrote:DustoffDave wrote:And much of the reason they survived for so long is because they were treated favorably by the government. Like in the example about striking workers, police intervened to break up the strike. Various levels of government took the side of the companies over the workers.ignorant said: The robber barrons rose from the "purest" business environment I can think of... That turned out well... Child labor, company towns and such.Hmm, you get me thinking, good sir... Eventually, those guys were thwarted by government intervention (anit-monopoly laws and such). Don't you think that, left to their own devices they would have eventually collapsed under their own weight or brutality and better companies would have taken thier place?
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