In the last week I have seen several big, heavy, new, garbage trucks in Ft. Lauderdale. Written on the side"Clean power!! Running on natural gas. I did not know that big trucks were running on this. Is it new, or have I just not noticed? Can this fuel compete with diesel? I can see it being much cleaner than oil, we have a good bit in our own country, and can get a lot more from friendly countries, like Trinidad. What would be the pros and cons of LNG for heavy truck use?
buy one http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/Cars-Trucks__W0QQFuelType9dab9364ZCNG1053cQQ_sacatZ6001QQ_dmptZUS_Cars_Trucks
Fuel at home. They're dual fuel.
They came from the factory for a while but stopped. The F150's have some crazy valve that dies a good bit so they're not super great.
When I worked for the Big C, we'd make plenty of CNG turbos. Westport makes the engines. http://www.cumminswestport.com/ <--- been around for a while.
The fuel is cheaper than gasoline but diesel still wins for long distance service. It is a great fuel for Buses. The biggest issue in the US is fuel distribution. Honda used to sell a system for home fueling but I believe they sold off the business. Here is a UK device that does the same thing. http://www.gasfill.com/
edit: Youtube vid on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AS23ax-huc
We had them at work for a while, 3/4 ton pickups. Problem was the gas compressed in the cold, hard to fill, stations are not common and a full tank doesn't go that far because you have to refill at 1/2 tank.
YMMV in God's Waiting Room.
Dan
I just saw something on TV about landfills where Waste Management were recycling the methane offgas into LNG for powering their fleet of garbage collection trucks, in addition to running a methane gas turbine for power generation. Seems like a good idea.
I see a lot of CNG F150's for sale locally...all utility company vehicles.
guess what? only one filling station listed in the metro area
Grtechguy wrote: I see a lot of CNG F150's for sale locally...all utility company vehicles. guess what? only one filling station listed in the metro area
The Cng ones are dual fuel. Which intigues me a great deal.
Using CNG for fuel is only slightly different than using LPG, and the internal parts of the engine would be exactly the same as in the gasoline version. If it were a carbureted engine (which I doubt in the case of the new garbage trucks) the carb would be the only difference. I am a forklift mechanic and I see lpg powered and LPG/gasoline duel fuel powered engines frequently, and they have been using fuel injection for both systems for a few years now. The LPG injection systems are plaged with contamination problems due to inconsistancies in the fuel, but I think that CNG is a "purer" fuel and have fewer of such problems. That having been said, both CNG and LPG have fewer BTUs per LB than gasoline which itself has fewer BTUs than Diesel fuel. Those new trucks will be quite thirsty, so thier environmental advantage may be more PR than actual. I think a hybrid Diesel would have a smaller "carbon footprint", but, the CNG engines could be a help if they are being used in an area with air quality problems.
What about a home fill station? The proper sized tanks are all over rural areas, so you can get them real cheap late at night.
Add a tank heater for cold weather, wouldn't be any different than block heaters, or any more complicated nitrous bottle warmer .
CNG is ok, but they are a bit scary compared to propane. They run something like 2400 psi in the tank, so you can imagine the refueling problems with high pressure pumps, faulty checkvalves, getting t-boned in the tank....Plus when you run out its hard to go get a jerry can of natural gas.
Streetwiseguy wrote: CNG is ok, but they are a bit scary compared to propane. They run something like 2400 psi in the tank, so you can imagine the refueling problems with high pressure pumps, faulty checkvalves, getting t-boned in the tank....Plus when you run out its hard to go get a jerry can of natural gas.
try 3600psi...
This is common downunder and many cars are retro fitted as the fuel is much cheaper, although it gets less mileage at the fuel prices downunder a conversion pays for itself inside two years. It is a dual fuel system usually although LPG only systems are available and refill stations are plentiful.
http://cgi.ebay.com/FORD-FALCON-EA-S-1990-LOW-KLMS-DUAL-FUEL_W0QQitemZ280445825403QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Cars?hash=item414bdfb17b
I had a LPG carb on my 1977 302 XC GS Ford Falcon Ute, it was great and with the engine modified to the fuel it ran awesome, can you say 110 octane.
One main benefit to running CNG over diesel is that the new 2010 emissions require UREA aftertreatment onboard the truck. To make engines 2010 compliant Cummins requires a EVGT (Electronically Variable Geometry Turbocharger), a Diesel particulate filter, a UREA system, the cummins cooled EGR system, and a Catalytic converter for the Urea.. ( I could be wrong about the particulate filter)....
To make engines 2010 compliant with Natural gas, you use a standard wastegated turbo, a catalyst, and a the cummins cooled EGR system.
The complexity of the 2007 EPA engines and their teething issues were great. The EVGT's are still experiencing some teething issues.... I can't really talk more, but lets just say that 2010 emissions standards scared CAT out of making a HD on road engine ever again. CAT is out of the HD on road diesel market.
Let me put it in simple terms... I lived this crap, until I was let go. If I had the choice a 2010 CNG engine vs a 2010 DIesel engine and they made about the same amount of torque/HP.... I would pick the simpler engine hands down. (If the application allowed for the use of a CNG engine, filling stations etc..)
aussiesmg wrote: This is common downunder and many cars are retro fitted as the fuel is much cheaper, although it gets less mileage at the fuel prices downunder a conversion pays for itself inside two years.
The gubbermint actually offers a full rebate on LPG conversions now. Makes a lot of sense if you're running a big Falcon/Commodore.
Streetwiseguy wrote: CNG is ok, but they are a bit scary compared to propane. They run something like 2400 psi in the tank, so you can imagine the refueling problems with high pressure pumps, faulty checkvalves, getting t-boned in the tank....Plus when you run out its hard to go get a jerry can of natural gas.
They are not as dangerous as people think. I saw a bus that had hit an overpass and knocked a couple tanks loose and there was no loss of gas, the safety valves closed and the tanks were unharmed. As far as running in the cold ours run fine all year, but I have seen some poorly done conversions that could have problems. We have had CNG buses in our area since the early 90's with no problems other than being somewhat slow to refuel with the first few fueling stations.
The real issue with CNG is the tank takes up a huge amount of space and is only good for a short distance. The cities have a bunch of CNC civics around here and they also have filling stations. They also convert some of the crown vic cabs to run on CNC but it take up a lot of the trunk space. I think the CNC tank on the civic is good for like 70miles or something like that. It isn't going to put BP or chevron out of business, but it is a start. I hear CNC runs really clean so it helps keep maintenance costs down, but I'm no expert.
There are pressure release valves and the such so I wouldn't worry about anything going kaboom!
The pressure noted earlier is a concern. Take a look at this Honda Civic that was set on fire by some youths.....http://www.firetrainingresources.net/items/CNGAutoFire-FIREFIGHTERNEARMISScompressedpics.pdf
I worked for some time with propane forklifts and dual fuel pickup trucks. A benefit of propane or cng is how clean the engine is when you tear it down. Cylinder heads you could eat off of, pistons you'd wear as jewelery on Halloween, etc...
i'm actually the lead mechanic for those cng trucks you've seen in ft lauderdale and they work great.we've been runing them for about six months know.
Welcome aboard, nos. You will find things quite .... interesting... here. Please share your experience with those beasts. What company do you work with?
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