Neighbor kid driving me nuts - advice please

Wait, did my annoying neighbor just move?

yupididit said:

Telling people to go join the military because they haven't figured out life yet is not good advice. Maybe back in the day it was. He seems like he'd still be in the same situation if he was in the military too. Plus, maybe that is something he really doesn't want to do. Kid needs to find what motivates him. Unfortunately, it might be at the cost of your patience and peace, for now.

Dealing with young folks and dealing with old folks is very similar. One is stubborn and thinks they know everything out of ignorance and the other is stubborn and think they know everything because they survived life long enough. Neither are really going to listen to you if it doesn't align with their reasoning and goals. 

Excellent points, and I appreciate you bringing them up.  If I thought this kid was actually going to follow my advice I'd be a lot more careful with it.  Military service is definitely not for everybody.  It's almost certainly not for this kid, and it would be the surprise of the century if he even attempted to enlist.  If he did, we'd probably see him back at the house in a couple of months with nothing to show for it but a haircut and the knowledge that for those few months, he wasn't happy.

So why mention it if it's probably a non-starter?  I guess it was meant more as a dope-slap tool, a way to express my frustration that he's still being a nuisance to the neighborhood without saying it directly again and again.  I also wanted to help him recognize that he's still tripping over his own shoelaces (or would be, if his shoes actually had laces), and to illustrate that he has an awful lot of opportunities now that he simply won't have later, and that he might want to spend some time thinking about what he wants the rest of his life to look like.

He mentioned wanting to work with cars.  My response was that it was a great hobby but a terrible career.  I may have to walk that back a little.  Standing on a slippery floor reaching up to a dripping car is misery.  A career in collision repair, however, may be an excellent fit.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

I would definitely back track that working with cars thing. While it may not be a financially lucrative career in the short term, ultimately having a direction and following it to make oneself happy should be the most important. I think as a society we put entirely too much strain on what's good and what's not. My uncle for an example, was a career pizza guy. Delivered for 30+ years. He's happy and not depending on anyone...so is it a bad career? Taking they a step further, you've got guys like cleetus, tavarish, etc- that have made EXTREMELY lucrative careers out of what is effectively working with cars. 

yupididit said:

In reply to DarkMonohue :

Dealing with young folks and dealing with old folks is very similar. One is stubborn and thinks they know everything out of ignorance and the other is stubborn and think they know everything because they survived life long enough. Neither are really going to listen to you if it doesn't align with their reasoning and goals. 

That's good stuff right there.

There's working with cars and there's working with cars. Motivation and critical thinking are what makes all the difference. My passion for cars drove me through getting an engineering degree, for example. It's doesn't matter what he wants, without those he's going to have a rough time.

The message I give is typically, if you want the money and freedom to do fun things, very rarely does it fall in your lap. 

Military can at times be a good fit for teaching self discipline and self motivation. But not always a good fit. Plus, geopolitically right now, being scared of it is valid.

Mndsm said:

I would definitely back track that working with cars thing. While it may not be a financially lucrative career in the short term, ultimately having a direction and following it...

<snip>

Taking they a step further, you've got guys like cleetus, tavarish, etc- that have made EXTREMELY lucrative careers out of what is effectively working with cars. 

Apexcarver said:

There's working with cars and there's working with cars. Motivation and critical thinking are what makes all the difference. 

<snip>

The message I give is typically, if you want the money and freedom to do fun things, very rarely does it fall in your lap. 

Solid input here, and much appreciated. 

A lot of my perspective on an automotive career comes from a dealership environment where a strong work ethic and moral compass were more a hindrance than an advantage.  Where I was, in the parts department, guys who rolled with the corporate punches and weren't especially ambitious could stay there as long as they wanted.  In the shop, from service drive to journeyman tech, nobody was really happy.  My own experience turning wrenches (for a Spec Miata racer with, uh, interesting priorities) was not nearly as rewarding as it should have been.  The combination of those two experiences left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.  And, frankly, this kid would be an absolute liability in a repair environment.

I have contacts at a couple of excellent body shops, but do not want to dump him there.  Maybe there's an entry-level position available somewhere else.  A cursory Craigslist search looks promising.  At least that is something that would hopefully not migrate home.  He's not likely to start spraying cars in the driveway.

Boldface added to both quotes for emphasis.  Right now, he's all but indicated that he doesn't even want a direction.  Motivation and critical thinking are clearly lacking.  That's where I/we need to focus. 

YouTube stardom may serve as inspiration, but something tells me that ain't in the cards here.

You all have given me an awful lot of good input, and I really do appreciate the support and encouragement.

Every trade is begging for help. He can get into an apprenticeship easily. Pointing out he can make a good living as an HVAC guy and make a good bit of cash for hobbies on the side might sink in 

Where I grew up sugar in the gas tank was the preferred method of getting even with bothersome neighbors.   

I can't recommend this approach.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

No problem. 

I actually thought about this more, because this kid sounds a lot like me at that age. I was cut loose with a wad of cash at 18 and left to my own devices. I promptly took the E36 M3tiest job I could find that looked fun, and blew through 10s of thousands of dollars looking for... something. I made a lot of extremely stupid mistakes, including wrecking at least one car and covering up the evidence. I could have used some guidance and someone with some sort of compass. The kid has gone so far as to tell you he's into cars, that's kind of a start. I'm not suggesting you adopt him, but the possibility of being able to point him in a positive direction is something I personally would not pass up on. Maybe lean in just a little and listen, might find something interesting. 

Keep working on the kid without being obnoxious.  Be a semi understanding father figure that is not afraid to say what needs to be said.

I remember a point in my life where I realized I had bent-crashed-wrecked-totaled every car that I had owned in one way or another up to that point.    The all encompassing "I am a dumb ass" moment.

DarkMonohue said:   A career in collision repair, however, may be an excellent fit.

Wow, nice burn.

Well after reading this I can say you riding his ass is never going to help. I was that kid and when my neighbor acted like you (he yelled from his yard because he understands Ohio law)  it became 3AM open header burnouts down the block with me and several of my friends. He sold his house and moved after about a year of it after his state trooper friend couldn't solve the problem.

a lot of this advice cracks me up because I enjoyed bar fights as a younger man so you coming over to harass me over and over would have ended in a fight.  Unless there's a noise ordinance your E36 M3 out of luck no matter what your neighborhood is. My "working class" neighborhood has a house with 6 teenagers living in it, kid was making road passes on his dirt bike last night and i didn't even go cry in his ear. 

This reminds me of my first townhouse, where my car had to be parked in my 2nd reserved spot a few houses down (my wife had the one out front of ours). The house I parked in front of was a alcoholic mom and a couple early-teen boys who smoked weed all the time. I'd regularly come outside to see them leaning on my car (a maxima at the time) and then they put up a basketball hoop near it and repeatedly the ball would bounce into it. The kids had no idea what I did for work, I wore a shirt and tie so they probably figured I was some kind of business person (in my 20s, so maybe just an intern). I tried to be chill initially...I did obnoxious stuff when i was 14-15 as well...but that seemed to have a counterproductive effect.  I'd occasionally run into them in the woods out back (when wealking my dog) when they were smoking a joint or whatever.

I work for the gov't and one day I happened to be over at the DEA for a meeting (unrelated to drugs, incidentally). Everyone there was wearing a badge lanyard with "DEA Drug Enforcement Agency" on it in bold print. I managed to get one from my POC there. Put my work badge on it and started wearing it. 2 days later I pull up after work to park and the boys are there shooting hoops and I can smell they've been smoking. I get out of the car and the ball bounces toward me. Neighbor mozies over to get it and then sees the lanyard and it's was pretty funny the almost instant look of panic on his face. I didn't say anything except "hey" and then walked into my house. 

From that day forward, never saw them out in the woods, and never saw them shooting hoops when my car was there, or leaning on it. After a few years they kind of grew up and shaped up on their own and a decade later I ran into one of them at a store and he recognized me (I didn't recognize him because he was wearing a tie and coming from his job working at an insurance company). We chatted for a minute and and he asked if I still worked for the DEA. I would have come clean, but he had to go pick up his wife. 

The moral of this story is, I guess, that maybe he'll just figure it out at some point, or he won't. You can be friendly, or be a jerk, but it's unlikely being a jerk will positively change anything. It may take time for him to improve his view or his actions, but seems like you've already gotten some positive change out of him regarding the loud mufflers late at night. 

Some people judge themselves on how much they can piss off their neighbors.  Most of us don't.  The kid has some growing up to do yet, but he's not a deliberate E36M3head.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

I got a chuckle put of that story. Glad to hear that kid pulled it together.  And you're right, you'll always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  So far this kid seems receptive to my concerns and is willing to engage in friendly conversations about his direction.  The fact that he hasn't become combative indicates that he has some interest in getting along and some respect for others.

Speaking of, we talked a little about taking a job at a body shop.  I gave him a couple of leads.  He seemed excited about the possibilities, though it's hard to tell is that was genuine or just an effort to disguise a total lack of ambition.  I'll follow up with another lead this weekend and offer some more encouragement. 

Had to chuckle a little at his initial response to the body shop idea: "What does it pay?"  What are you making now?  "$15 an hour, but I'm not getting any hours because my cars are all broken..."  Well, then whatever they're paying is a whole lot more than that, isn't it?

......

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

Wow, nice burn.

Thanks.  It was only half sarcastic.  If I had to start over and wanted to pick a career in the automotive repair and restoration world, it would either be upholstery or paint and bodywork.  I do think the kid has potential in the latter, assuming he can focus, and obviously it would be personally relevant to him right away.  That might make all the difference between burning out and staying engaged.

When our girl was little she would never sleep and would hang out in her bedroom in the dark doing whatever.  One day the 18-year-old neighbor girl was making out in her backyard with her boyfriend and they had a fire going in their pit and my daughter was spying on her.

The next day my 10-year-old daughter told us she saw the guy giving her a back massage inside her shirt and they were kissing.  We cracked up and never said a word.