Newbie to video game racing. Where to start?

I guess if I had to prioritize, I'd probably put realistic qualities towards the top. My real desire is to be out there doing real HPDE days. Got my car recently, but I need to spend some $$ on tires and brakes before I can hit the track. That'll put a squeeze on how many HPDE entry fees I can afford. So I'm trying to be careful not to blow my budget on video games. Seems like one good thing about the video gaming is that even if I spend $300 on a good used wheel and a year subscription to iRacing, I'm done laying out cash. I can "race" as much as I want without spending more money....

You guys mentioned not to cheap out on the wheel, and I agree. Do you think that means I would want a G25 or G27 wheel, or are there other good budget wheels?

But, you'll only be able to race in two different classes (of road racing) with iRacing, unless you lay out MORE money.

blaze86vic wrote: It does depend on what you are looking for. If you just want to play a driving game, there are lot of options for PS3 and XBOX. If you are looking at simulation level physics that could hone your real world skills, the PC is the only place to find those. I'm honestly not too familiar with all the games on the consoles, but every one that I have driven at all were far from real. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just not the "Real driving" they advertise it as.

My lap times at Sebring would beg to differ.

racerfink wrote: But, you'll only be able to race in two different classes (of road racing) with iRacing, unless you lay out MORE money.

True, but...

I find that I most often race with the 'free' cars anyway. The grids are larger, and racing is racing to me. The only car I've purchased and really like is the Mustang. I detest the Barber car with a passion typically reserved for child molesters. Pick out which additional tracks you really want, and then select a car that races on most (or all) of those tracks and that's where your energies should go. There is no reason to buy ALL the content, unless you have no life away from a computer screen. I have three extra cars (on of which is the dud) and maybe four addtl tracks. Aside from getting Mid-Ohio yet, I'm pretty much satisfied.

I was in the same position a little while back. No time (not to mention funds) to do any real auto-x or HPDEs.

I asked my friend what his thoughts were, and here's what he came back with:

Playstation 3 is my choice. Home to Gran Turismo exclusively (Sony owns the development studio). The only real competition for it is Forza Motorsport on the Xbox which I also have and I've put in hours upon hours of both titles. While Forza is definitely a good game when viewed alone, GT is simply better. The sheer attention to detail in GT simply cannot be compared to any other game that features production cars. You can see it in the graphics and the feel of the car - the GT guys OCD level fastidious - there's no other way to describe it. Aside from the game itself, Sony's wheel partner is Logitech while Microsoft builds their own wheels. Again while the MS Xbox wheel is decent when viewed alone, the Logitech is literally at least twice as good. The feeling that you get from the Logitech DFP is tactile and realistic. You can feel the car tugging at your fingertips, you can feel punishing understeer and the sensation of snap oversteer. You really cannot even compare the two. I've gotten to the point where I don't even use my Xbox wheel anymore because it is really THAT inferior to the Logitech. Also the MS wheel only works on the Xbox while the Logitech connects via USB and can be used on the PC. So here we are at the PC - the problem with it is that there is no comparable sim which features street cars. I've run iRacing a good deal and some Live for Speed on the PC. While many may argue that iRacing and LFS have better aspects of tire modeling and deeper physics engines... the level of polish is garbage compared to either GT or Forza. Then there's the fact that most of the cars in those games are spec racers. While that's cool, I would much rather boot up GT5 and hop in a STi, GT-R or Corvette - it's just so much more relavant to me at least.

That's what made my decision. I picked up a PS3, Obutto seat, and a Logitech G27. I waited and shopped for deals on all 3 (for example, I got the G27 for $150 at Best Buy), so my total outlay wasn't as bad as it could have been.

What really sold me was what cars you can "drive" in something like GT5 vs. iRacing. I'm sure I'd be a much better driver if I used iRacing, but honestly I'm looking for some entertainment and if I improve a little bit as a driver, then that's great. A bonus of the G27 is that I'll use the clutch to teach my wife to drive a manual (much cheaper than a real clutch).

Someday I might graduate into something more realistic, but for right now the PS3 seems to be the sweet spot for me.

Having played GT5P on my friends 72" Sony, all I can say is, not impressed. I care nothing about blades of grass swaying in the breeze. That doesn't add to my driving experience. In fact, if anything, it takes away, because that's computing power that's being taken away from more important things, like vehicle dynamics.

Gran Turismo STILL hasn't figured out how to connect the tuning aspect of their game with how a car feels. Nothing like taking your rebound settings and totally changing them from one extreme to the other, and not feeling ONE BIT of difference in how the car handles. And what's up with the arbitrary numbers for their settings? Spring settings are 1-20 on EVERY car, from a Fiat 500, to a LMP car?

And making me do oil changes and car washes, since they affect the performance of the car, but the tires and suspension pieces last forever? I question where their reality lies.

I went out and bought GT1 and a PS1 after I played it at my friends house for the first time. The day GT3 came out, I bought it and a PS2. Each one that came out, it seemed to get further and further away from the original concept. There's a reson GT is called the Car Collectors game on a lot of boards.

racerfink wrote:

blaze86vic wrote: It does depend on what you are looking for. If you just want to play a driving game, there are lot of options for PS3 and XBOX. If you are looking at simulation level physics that could hone your real world skills, the PC is the only place to find those. I'm honestly not too familiar with all the games on the consoles, but every one that I have driven at all were far from real. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just not the "Real driving" they advertise it as.

My lap times at Sebring would beg to differ.

Just because you improved, doesn't mean the game is the cause. And even if it is poor physics you still get to familiarize with the track and play with lines. There are great very accurate models out here now for most of the popular courses. So even the cheapest games will have good track models. Sometimes a break from reality will help clear your mind of mental blocks and enable you to improve in real life. I just have personally never driven any console racing games that were really comparable to games like GTL, rFactor, and iRacing. Because in the end, all console games have to be playable on a system controllers, they are not designed completely around using simulated vehicle interfaces like true racing sims.

http://www.fanatec.com/

Most notably, the Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel.

Lets not forget about Live for Speed... very realistic simulator, even has a autocross section!

In terms of a wheel & pedals, it's very hard to beat the PS2 900degree rotation wheel/pedals for it's price.

I know it isn't really a serious racing game but i've always enjoyed the Rallisport Challenge games for XBox. Also, the Dakar Rally game is pretty fun.

blaze86vic wrote: Because in the end, all console games have to be playable on a system controllers, they are not designed completely around using simulated vehicle interfaces like true racing sims.

To be fair, I think the console games do a very good job of offering an authentic experience using the controller.

I never said they did a bad job, they just are not on the same page as PC sims that were based on as many real aspects as possible to simulate real characteristics.

What do you think they do at Turn 10 and Polyphony Digital then?

I'll give the nod to PC sims on their physical modeling, but until SimBin makes "SCCA Club Racing 2011", Forza & GT are all I got. Like RF said, T10 & PD ain't exactly just re-hashing "Pole Position".

racerfink wrote: What do you think they do at Turn 10 and Polyphony Digital then?

They do as much as they possibly can, while maintaining playability through a crude joystick and pair of linear finger triggers.

SimBin has been designing their sims around real life for a long time. And those without the money for good high quality wheels with large degrees of rotation and quality force feedback were simply at a disadvantage. You get used to it. But the Driving Force Pro is the ticket to high end imputs at a bargain price.

Everyone's got an opinion on racing games, and everyone has a favorite.

I had a Logitech DFP for a year, played GT4, Enthusia Professional Racing (which I dont think anyone has mentioned, better physics than GT4 by far), and Live for Speed S2 pretty regularly.

I ended up selling the DFP for a few reasons and going back to Forza 2/3 more or less exclusively. No online play on GT4 and Enthusia...playing with yourself gets old pretty quick.....

LFS online was pretty awesome actually, I especially liked that you could download and share custom autocross layouts. Very large race fields were great on the tracks. The learning curve is steep on this game. I found typing to be a pain in the ass to communicate with others though, and I was too much of a cheapskate to throw down for a headset mic for the computer.

I went back to Forza in the end, I just like customizing cars, and having hundreds of them to tinker around with. The in game marketplace is great if you want to rack up some in game cash by selling tuning setups, paintjobs, and decals that you create. However, if you dont like that kind of nonsense and if all you care about is driving and having it be as real as possible, then maybe Forza Motorsport is not the game for you.

I can't speak on the PS3 as I dont have one...but I may pick one up a few months after GT5 comes out. But if you are going to spend this much time to develop a game, It better blow the others out of the water.

In reply to blaze86vic: SimBin came out with a game a while back for the 360. The physics were so bad, the online play didn't even last a few months. I don't see how a developer with limited resources, like SimBin, can spend the same amount of money for physics engines that somebody like Microsoft/Turn 10 Studios can. Forza 3 models tire deformation, just like Live for Speed does.

I think you're dis-missing consoles, cause the game isn't being run on a $1200 gaming rig. I'm gonna leave that sentence in there, cause that's what I wrote, but I didn't do a good job of putting it in context. What I SHOULD have conveyed was, that just because a game is running on a far superior system, doesn't necessarily make it a superior game. Most of what I see with computer racing games is just eye candy, and doesn't contribute to actual racing play at all.

None of SimBin's PC based games are "eye candy" nor is my PC anything special. My PC is 6 years old now, and it wasn't that expensive then either. When I talk about these games being better, I am purely referring to their actual simulation quality. Visually I put all the console games way above any of SimBin's PC sims.

We like what we like, I just find that the games on PCs tend to be more simulation and less play. The console games tend to me more focused on fun play from a kid's gaming perspective.

blaze86vic wrote: But the Driving Force Pro is the ticket to high end imputs at a bargain price.

Agreed. I bought it for GT4, used it to play GTR2 and Race `07. Two great games that I can't really play anymore because we don't have a dedicated game PC, and now that the thing's half full of family pix and Ill Nino .mp3s, I gotta turn the frame right down to about 3 to get it to work.

I guess I'm agreeing with both of you. The PCs may be more realistic, but the consoles are pretty damn good these days-and I can build virtual copies of Spec Miatas and Improved Touring cars. That's another kind of "realism", I guess..even if I'd kept at it, I don't think I would have even gotten good enough to end up in an FIA GT car.

To add another 2 cents....

blaze86vic - I think the fidelity* of Forza 3 is comparable to the various Simbin/ISI games. In terms of the physics / driving model it's every bit as realistic as, say, GTR2. That isin't expressed when driving with a controller, but if you were to use, say, the fanatec GT3 wheel it would be seen.

I think the difference you are trying to express, is that the PC games like GTR are more realistic about simulating a race (usually a particular series or category with a large field of cars) while the console games like forza are more about the driving (IE, a variety of cars and venues).

It's kinda like comparing Falcon 4.0 to Microsoft Flight Simulator.

*fidelity refers to the degree to which a model or simulation reproduces the state and behaviour of a real world object, feature or condition. Fidelity is therefore a measure of the realism of a model or simulation.

I edited my post a whole bunch of times, so you might need to refresh.

Wow - purty! http://jalopnik.com/5616721/more-gran-turismo-5-screens-than-you-can-shake-a-prius-at/gallery/

Given that I don't even own a console, I really didn't need to see this rendering.

It's important to note that that's not a 'gameplay' image, but rather a photo taken from what could be called broadcast quality replay. Actuall gameplay will not look like that, due to a lot more going on in terms of processing. The photos from replays and the photo mode in the game will be just like GT4 in that regard.

racerfink wrote: http://www.fanatec.com/ Most notably, the Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel.

How good are these, say, compared to the Logitech ones?