Nothing Tears a Family Apart Worse...

In reply to rotard:

My thoughts exactly.....my family has gone through similar things, it always gets messy....and the lawyers always end up with 3/4 of the money.

Beer Baron wrote: Like I've said, I'm not going to fight him on it. It isn't worth it. He holds all the power in the situation and the amount more I might possibly get isn't worth the strain it would cause on the family. I really am just ranting here because I'm pissed off. It really pisses me off though that my dad is putting me in the situation of having to back off to try to keep peace with the family. Like, I'm being taken advantage of, but if I stand up for myself, I become the one who screws up the family. I really hate being put in that position. I want us all to sit down and talk amiably and come to a group decision, and no one else wants to do that.

the bitch of it is, if you sue him, as the excecutor of the estate, money for his legal defense comes from the estate and in the end, it is basically what the executor decides that wins out in the end.

similar thing happened when my grandparents sued grandma's brother over (no E36 M3) a hall tree. will said he got all the living room furniture, and she got the rest, or something, so the dispute was really over whether the entryway was part of the living room or the rest of the house. her brother, as executor of the estate got to make the decision, and of course won.

edit: this crap is already starting on the other side of my family, too.

rotard wrote: Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Either way, something tells me that the relationship you guys have with your father isn't the best, otherwise, he'd really want to take care of you two.

That's the problem. I thought our relationship was better than this, and I'm just getting really surprised by the way he's handling things. I thought there would be more discussion between the whole family on what the best way to distribute everything would be, and my dad has gone on to make executive decisions that completely ignore what my brother and I might want.

Beer Baron wrote: Maybe if he were more tactful about it, I'd be less pissed. If he were talking about how he is planning to give us all what the legal distribution should be, I would understand. But he has strait up said that he is going to work to give my brother and me as little as legally possible.

I'm sorry he's being a D-bag but as long as he gives you what is legally required that is all you get. I'm sorry it sounds like your impression of your grandparents wishes are different than the reality of what situation they left behind. If you don't have a LEGAL leg to get these unspecified assets into the Estate they are NOT assets that belong to the estate and therefore 20% you. I would be Pissed if he tried to legally get money that is already IN the estate out but it sounds like it's just the money that isn't in the estate. The financial advisor shoudl be able to specifically surrender that money to the Estate and not to Your dad. I would talk to her and ensure that occurs if you and your brother feel that is a fight worth having.

Oh and Hug your dad. I WISH I could fight with my Dad over money. I would give back EVERY dime I got from his estate to spend 1 more day with him so count yourself lucky that you at least have a D-bag dad at all.

nocones wrote: Who's the one being greedy?

We all are. That pisses me off. I don't want to be greedy, but everyone else is and so I either need to do the same, or kind of get taken advantage of. I'm pissed at my dad and my brother for putting us in the situation where we all end up being greedy in hopes of getting a roughly equal share.

nocones wrote: Oh and Hug your dad. I WISH I could fight with my Dad over money. I would give back EVERY dime I got from his estate to spend 1 more day with him so count yourself lucky that you at least have a D-bag dad at all.

This is why I want to meet with him over beers and not via text message. It's a lot easier to get impersonal and petty when there isn't real human interaction. He isn't a D-Bag. He's just being a D-Bag at the moment.

Beer Baron wrote: He isn't a D-Bag. He's just being a D-Bag at the moment.

douchebag is as douchebag does

I hope my parents leave everything they have to their grandkids. They did enough for me over the years, I don't want anything else but happy memories.

The most important thing is: I got my grandmother's wedding ring to give to my fiancee. It's not that much, money wise, compared to everything else. But that's the important thing in all this for me. I need to remind myself of that.

pinchvalve wrote: I hope my parents leave everything they have to their grandkids. They did enough for me over the years, I don't want anything else but happy memories.

Part of the trouble is, my dad has screwed up a number of things in his life, and at nearly 60 years of age is in a crappy position where he really can't support himself and is convinced he won't make any more money in his life. He sees this inheritance as what he'll live on for the next 30 years.

That's also why my grandparents really wanted my brother and I to get a chunk when they passed. They've helped my dad a lot out over the years, and he's kind of lost or spent everything he had on trying to start businesses that ultimately failed, getting tied up in bad financial situations, marrying the wrong women, and buying expensive toys (airplanes and boats).

4cylndrfury wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: He isn't a D-Bag. He's just being a D-Bag at the moment.

*douchebag is as douchebag does*

Actually, I'm also angry at him about the way he's been treating my half brother. I found out in December that I have a half brother that I didn't know about. The kid got a bad shake from having kind of a crazy mother. Now that he's 21, he decided to track down the father he was kept away from.

Bad enough that my dad doesn't really want much of anything to do with the poor guy, but he doesn't have the stones to be square with him about it. He's kind of jerking the kid around and being completely insensitive to his feelings on everything. Yeah, he's a bit starry-eyed about dreaming that he'll instantly be adopted and made part of a family with two brothers and a father, and that's not really realistic when everyone are already adults, but there is a right way and a wrong way to let the kid down.

nocones wrote: If you don't have a LEGAL leg to get these unspecified assets into the Estate they are NOT assets that belong to the estate and therefore 20% you.

The estate is anything owned by the deceased. I'm confused as to how an asset would have been owned by his grampa but not be in the estate since everything he owned would by definition be his estate.

Sez the wiki: "An estate is the net worth of a person at any point in time. It is the sum of a person's assets – legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind – less all liabilities at that time."

dculberson wrote:

nocones wrote: If you don't have a LEGAL leg to get these unspecified assets into the Estate they are NOT assets that belong to the estate and therefore 20% you.

The estate is anything owned by the deceased. I'm confused as to how an asset would have been owned by his grampa but not be in the estate since everything he owned would by definition be his estate. Sez the wiki: "An estate is the net worth of a person at any point in time. It is the sum of a person's assets – legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind – less all liabilities at that time."

I don't know the full details of the will. They also set up a trust that they put a lot of their assets into. I don't know if maybe my brother and I are only entitled to 20% each of what's in that trust, or of the total estate. I need to see the legal documents for myself or get them explained to me by someone impartial to the whole situation.

Right now, I'm getting all the information from my dad. Certain things he's telling me raise questions that I want some clarification on. When I ask him for clarification I basically get "just trust me", "it should have all gone to me anyway", or accused of causing problems for wanting information. That makes me feel more uncomfortable with the whole situation. I don't think I am being unreasonable for wanting to understand what is actually going on.

I'm glad my family managed to avoid that. My mom's father owned a piece of lake front property in Indiana that had a very nice cabin on it. When he died it got left to his four daughters. After a few years everyone amicably sold their shares to one of my Aunts who still lets us all go there without any issues.

But I've seen it go the other way too many times. It is a very sad state of affairs.

Learn Me:

Estates, inheritance, and wills. Does the executor of the will get to make the final call on where money goes? If so, can they manipulate the estate to profit themselves more than the other heirs?

And I don't care who it is, if my name is mentioned in some sort of legal document, you damn well better be sure I get to see it.

My grandfather preceeded my grandmother, so when she died ALL assets were to be split EVENLY among her children....with a few small exceptions. Seems like that would settle any problems, doesn't it? Unfortunately, my grandparents had things that

A:) could not be easily split 9 even ways, like an antique desk, so there had to be a bit of "give and take" among family members.

B:) things like my grandparent's house...2 of my uncles wanted it and so a value, that ALL agreed on, had to be made. Needless to say, not everyone could agree on the price of the house.

When my grandmother's sister died, it was like that episode of Seinfeld where folks starting taking things....whether they were entitled to them or not. A half sister of my grandaunt "removed" nearly all the jewelry before she could be stopped, but no one wanted to fight her for it, so it was just "forgotten". Other problems arose when members of the family heard of who got what as inheritance. One of my brothers got an antique violin. My mother got an antique desk. No one else in my family got anything. One of my cousins got $5,000. When another cousin heard that, he felt (actually, his father felt) that he deserved $5,000, too.

My folks didn't tell me, but they strongly considered making me my brother's guardian. My brother is a mildly retarded adult and since neither of us is married....my folks just assumed I'd welcome my brother into my home. My mother was quite surprised when I confronted her with my displeasure at the prospect of becoming my brother's keeper....with no notice.

Wills/estates are tricky, but making a family member executor(sp?) seems like trouble in the making. Too bad about your situation. My Mom recently passed. We finally got it into her head that she would be advised to give away any items she wanted to "pass down" before she died. If nothing else, she would get to see the joy her gift gave someone.

In reply to Beer Baron:

I utterly hate to say this, but I think you do need some legal advice here and get to see the documents. I - not being a lawyer - would expect that you should be able to get copies of the documents. They'll probably be full of legalese, so pay a lawyer a couple of hundred bucks to get them translated into something resembling plain English.

Stuff like that makes me glad that I come from a long line of broke people. There are only a few trinkets and the odd mortgage that tend to get inherited...

Mind you, I can already see my wife's inheritance get really ugly even though her parents are trying their best to ensure it doesn't happen. But there is already some low-key "arguing" going on, and her parents are still alive. Go figure.

The sad part about this is that it's very likely that the relationship with your father will be permanently damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. This is really unpleasant and I've been in the same situation with my step dad who I haven't spoken to in a good fifteen years. This is a sad situation but sometimes, you just can't do anything about that.

PHeller wrote: Learn Me: Estates, inheritance, and wills. Does the executor of the will get to make the final call on where money goes? If so, can they manipulate the estate to profit themselves more than the other heirs? And I don't care who it is, if my name is mentioned in some sort of legal document, you damn well better be sure I get to see it.

The executor has to follow the will. Unfortunately, a badly written will can result in a lot of ambiguity and it is the executor's job to clear this up as best as they can. The lesson is to choose your executor carefully.

Another thing, if executor compensation isn't specifically spelled out, an executor can usually pay themselves the maximum the state allows, usually a percentage of the total estate.

dculberson wrote:

nocones wrote: If you don't have a LEGAL leg to get these unspecified assets into the Estate they are NOT assets that belong to the estate and therefore 20% you.

The estate is anything owned by the deceased. I'm confused as to how an asset would have been owned by his grampa but not be in the estate since everything he owned would by definition be his estate. Sez the wiki: "An estate is the net worth of a person at any point in time. It is the sum of a person's assets – legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind – less all liabilities at that time."

Yes your right I'm sorry I was thinking Trusts, and assuming that Beer Barron was refering to a Trust that represented 50% of the Estate. If the Will says 60/20/20 of the ESTATE things are different. Either way It sounds like an attorney needs to be found to decipher the will ensuring that his grandparents will be done.

I miss Pigeon. He would straighten us out.

PHeller wrote: Learn Me: Estates, inheritance, and wills. Does the executor of the will get to make the final call on where money goes? If so, can they manipulate the estate to profit themselves more than the other heirs?

That is correct. This is what is happening. Assets were put into a trust, but it was not specified how they would be distributed, just that a certain percentage of total assets would go to different parties. My dad is giving himself several working farms that will provide an income of roughly $20k-$30k per year. He is also taking all of the stocks and other funds like that.

He is giving my brother and I the biggest part of our share in a piece of property that can not be developed on because of a bunch of environmental impact issues, and that may prove difficult to sell for this reason.

And I don't care who it is, if my name is mentioned in some sort of legal document, you damn well better be sure I get to see it.

I haven't gotten to see anything yet except for a spreadsheet that shows a list of assets. I keep getting told by my dad that I should just trust him, and that will make the process much more expedient. That makes me trust him less and feel like I really need to get some legal counsel to look everything over. That doesn't sit well with me.

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: I utterly hate to say this, but I think you *do* need some legal advice here and get to see the documents. I - not being a lawyer - would expect that you should be able to get copies of the documents. They'll probably be full of legalese, so pay a lawyer a couple of hundred bucks to get them translated into something resembling plain English. Stuff like that makes me glad that I come from a long line of broke people. There are only a few trinkets and the odd mortgage that tend to get inherited... Mind you, I can already see my wife's inheritance get really ugly even though her parents are trying their best to ensure it doesn't happen. But there is already some low-key "arguing" going on, and her parents are still alive. Go figure. The sad part about this is that it's very likely that the relationship with your father will be permanently damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. This is really unpleasant and I've been in the same situation with my step dad who I haven't spoken to in a good fifteen years. This is a sad situation but sometimes, you just can't do anything about that.

This. This is a sad situation and I am really sorry you have to go through this but I also think you need to go talk to a lawyer before this goes too far.

BoxheadTim wrote: The sad part about this is that it's very likely that the relationship with your father will be permanently damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. This is really unpleasant and I've been in the same situation with my step dad who I haven't spoken to in a good fifteen years. This is a sad situation but sometimes, you just can't do anything about that.

This is what scares me and bothers me the most.

Beer Baron wrote: I haven't gotten to see anything yet except for a spreadsheet that shows a list of assets. I keep getting told by my dad that I should just trust him,

Yep, that's when the alarm bells in my head tend to go off, too. Usually, people who can be trusted don't need to remind other people of that fact.

Beer Baron wrote: and that will make the process much more expedient.

For whom?

Beer Baron wrote: That makes me trust him less and feel like I *really* need to get some legal counsel to look everything over. That doesn't sit well with me.

I don't like dealing with lawyers, but that's exactly one of these situations where you want to get legal counsel and that's usually when it's worth every penny you spend on it.

Beer Baron wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: The sad part about this is that it's very likely that the relationship with your father will be permanently damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. This is really unpleasant and I've been in the same situation with my step dad who I haven't spoken to in a good fifteen years. This is a sad situation but sometimes, you just can't do anything about that.

This is what scares me and bothers me the most.

Have you been clear with him about your desire to have real live interaction with him? Have you stated specifically that you do not want to get text messages from him? Perhaps its time you pop in out of the blue (if thats geographically a possibility). You can only affect your sphere of influence. You may be able to directly affect whether or not you communicate with him by deciding to read his texts or not. If you cant force face to face communication (either through asking directly, or just showing up), dont let your inability to communicate bother you (any more than it already is anyway). Do what you can, be there, but dont tear yourself up over this any more than you already have.

If there were no money to be had, there would be no issue, your life would have carried on without incident...dont let the possibility of something ambiguous affect the reality of the tangible life you already do have.