Occupy.... the Simthsonian?

The notion of eliminating all debt worldwide is the one that gets me (most, they're all pretty hilarious). People borrow money to buy something they can't afford. They then have to pay that money back with interest, to make it worth the lender's time and risk. If you can afford to pay it back, I fail to see the problem. If you can't afford to pay it back, don't buy whatever it is in the first place.

No one can hold a gun to your head and make you go into debt. Too many student loans? Maybe you should have learned a trade instead.

If we eliminate all debt, almost no one will buy anything over a couple thousand bucks ever again.

Salanis wrote: Anyone else find these two demands to be incompatible with each other?

I find them ALL to be completely incompatible with ANYTHING.

This is the first I've seen of that list of demands and it had me laughing out loud! What a joke!

SVreX wrote: I have a major problem with people protesting something when they aren't even sure why. So, here's the unofficial "list of demands"

I think they're going about things the wrong way, but in the interests of fair reporting you didn't include the disclaimer at the top of that page...

Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

dear Occupy Wall Street, good luck in finding Utopia

Snowdoggie wrote: The sad thing is that we have a large group of young people who are buried in student loans, can't find jobs and are facing a lower standard of living than their parents had. The don't understand why it happened and are ready to jump on any conspiracy theory that might explain it and support any extreme political belief that might cure it. If their knowledge of history and political science came from something other than radio talk show hosts and internet sites, they might actually be able to know where and what to protest and how to do it coherently.

Why is this Wall Street's, or any corporation's problem though? Did Wall Street force them to go to school to get a degree that there is no demand for? Shouldn't that be their own problem for borrowing a bunch of money when you knew there probably wouldn't be a job waiting for you? All these people taking Art History or Women's Studies or Peace and Conflict Studies (yes, this is a real degree at Wayne State University in Detroit) had to know in their second or third year that there would be very few jobs available when they graduated and that maybe they should have switched to a degree that would have jobs waiting. Just because they chose to waste their time and money "following their hearts" doesn't mean I should subsidize it or have to listen to their whining. Surely in all of their university studies they developed some amount of critical thought and analysis, can't they turn those skills on their own life and see where they went wrong? I don't think I'd get any sympathy if I went and protested the Crown Royal distillery for all the times I got way to drunk on their whiskey and wasted a tonne of money buying drinks for woman who were just using me for free drinks and had no intention of getting to know a short, loud drunk guy.

Bob

My sister got her degree in Art History. She's never had a job that she put that degree into use for. I work a job that you only need a GED for, and I've always made more money than her.

When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going. I'm not going to claim to be the most responsible person in the world, but I was able to figure that one out pretty damn easily.

This whole movement if pretty misguided and pathetic.

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going. I'm not going to claim to be the most responsible person in the world, but I was able to figure that one out pretty damn easily. This whole movement if pretty misguided and pathetic.

The problem is a noone is telling these kids that. Most kids have never had to manage money, then they are told to sign these papers take this credit card and when you graduate you can pay it off in no time. While I don't agree with a lot of what they are doing I can sympathize with them. They have been handed a mountain of debt that noone properly explaind to them, and then headed off into a terible job market to try and pay it back. The only reason that my brother isn't one of them is that he learned early on to work hard, which is something our society has come to frown on in my generation.

We were both actively discouraged by our schools to avoid learning a trade and to go to college. I realized early on I was wasting a lot of money and time and quit. He joined the Guard to pay for his Bachelors degree, then borrowed for his Masters in education. Neither he nor his teacher wife ever found teaching jobs. Since high school he has worked packing out ice cream for Edy's. He recently got his CDL and they put him on as a Route Salesman/ driver. It's alot of hours but the money isn't bad. Many of his friends are un/underemployed but still look down there noses at him and his job as a simple truck driver.

I'm amazed no one mentioned it was an overwhelmingly white crowd attacking black security guards. Either America has moved forward faster in race relations than I can imagine, or the Lamestream Media won't play up a racial angle unless conservatives are involved.

Wally wrote:

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going. I'm not going to claim to be the most responsible person in the world, but I was able to figure that one out pretty damn easily. This whole movement if pretty misguided and pathetic.

The problem is a noone is telling these kids that. Most kids have never had to manage money, then they are told to sign these papers take this credit card and when you graduate you can pay it off in no time. While I don't agree with a lot of what they are doing I can sympathize with them. They have been handed a mountain of debt that noone properly explaind to them, and then headed off into a terible job market to try and pay it back. The only reason that my brother isn't one of them is that he learned early on to work hard, which is something our society has come to frown on in my generation. We were both actively discouraged by our schools to avoid learning a trade and to go to college. I realized early on I was wasting a lot of money and time and quit. He joined the Guard to pay for his Bachelors degree, then borrowed for his Masters in education. Neither he nor his teacher wife ever found teaching jobs. Since high school he has worked packing out ice cream for Edy's. He recently got his CDL and they put him on as a Route Salesman/ driver. It's alot of hours but the money isn't bad. Many of his friends are un/underemployed but still look down there noses at him and his job as a simple truck driver.

I went to an expensive private prep school and then an expensive university on scholarship, which I got screw out of on a ridiculous technicality. I understand how easily you can dig yourself into the whole these people are in, but ignorance of how credit works just doesn't fly as an excuse. These kids are my peers, and I could sort through all of this stuff for myself. It sucks, and I really don't wish the problems they're having on anyone, but they made choices and they are responsible for the results.

I wanted to finish school. I really took pride in my education, but the fact is that it's just not a financial possibility. Although I guess it was sort of an easier choice since I knew I was joining the Corps either way.

How do you get a History major off your porch?

Pay him for the pizza.

I told my BIL that one time while he was out of work. His History major isn't worth the paper it's printed on. He's working at one of those "shovel ready jobs" at the local pet shelter. Waste case if I have ever seen one. Mooching off his wife and his parents.

The people these kids need to protest is their parents, for not teaching them the realities of the world. Blaming wall street because they won't hire useless people is just stupid.

Lesson one. "Life's not fair, get over it and move on." My kids learn that at an early age.

stuart in mn wrote:

SVreX wrote: I have a major problem with people protesting something when they aren't even sure why. So, here's the unofficial "list of demands"

I think they're going about things the wrong way, but in the interests of fair reporting you didn't include the disclaimer at the top of that page... Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

You are correct, and I respect that, but I DID paraphrase it (including noting it was not official, and that they officially have NO official list of demands).

Not trying to report unfairly, just pointing out that when EVERYBODY has a demand....

...NOBODY does.

No direction= a lot of idiots wanting to be heard b*tching about absolutely nothing.

I'm not saying that I agree with them, but I can understand thier frustration. Even ones that don't owe money are having a terrible time finding jobs. Even with real degrees. I do have a hard time taking them seriously since they are more or less squatting on a park that is private property and they rally against corporate greed while using the bathroom at McDonald's.

I have 2 college students, plus 3 younger ones.

I have a BFA in a field of study that is relatively meaningless. In 30 years since graduating, I have NEVER ONCE been asked about my degree.

May I offer some advice to some of the younger board members (the same I tell my kids)?

Get a degree in a field of study that REQUIRES a degree, even if you aren't sure you want to pursue that field right away.

In other words, doctor, engineer, licensed professional, any field that will actually require a degree.

After graduation, if you want to pursue underwater basket weaving because it is your true passion, great. Go for it. Shelve the degree and pursue what you love.

20 or 30 years later when you are ready for the career, you can easily pull the degree out of the drawer.

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going.

This statement is just another way of saying that only the wealthy/priveleged should be educated. The costs of a degree at even a community college are far in excess of what a student could earn in the few hours they have left between studying, sleeping and class. There is no way, unless a student is lucky enough to have a wealthy family that any person could afford a higher education.

You know, I was looking for this one earlier, thanks!

fasted58 wrote:

ditchdigger wrote:

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going.

This statement is just another way of saying that only the wealthy/priveleged should be educated. The costs of a degree at even a community college are far in excess of what a student could earn in the few hours they have left between studying, sleeping and class. There is no way, unless a student is lucky enough to have a wealthy family that any person could afford a higher education.

Think of it as cost to benefit. Law school is expensive, and not a sure deal to a big meal ticket. One in Three law school grads don't get a law job, and most of the rest don't make big bucks. If you're sure the field is worth it, it's an investment. That history degree might be worthless no matter how you slice it.

ditchdigger wrote:

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going.

This statement is just another way of saying that only the wealthy/priveleged should be educated. The costs of a degree at even a community college are far in excess of what a student could earn in the few hours they have left between studying, sleeping and class. There is no way, unless a student is lucky enough to have a wealthy family that any person could afford a higher education.

No. It's really not saying that. A college education isn't something that should be guaranteed to anyone though. To say there's no way a student could afford college without someone handing it to them is pretty insulting to a lot of people who work their way through school.

Higher education isn't a necessity and shouldn't be treated as one. If someone legitimately can't provide for themselves, I have no problem is society stepping in and ensuring their basic needs are met. A degree doesn't fall into that category.

ditchdigger wrote:

MG_Bryan wrote: When you can no longer afford college, you should stop berkeleying going.

This statement is just another way of saying that only the wealthy/priveleged should be educated. The costs of a degree at even a community college are far in excess of what a student could earn in the few hours they have left between studying, sleeping and class. There is no way, unless a student is lucky enough to have a wealthy family that any person could afford a higher education.

This is a moronic statement.

Can you sleep until 11:00, grab a hot pocket, hit a couple of classes, hit the bong, watch reruns of seinfeld, order a pizza, tap that hot college ass, play nintendo, and crash at 2 in da mornin, only to do the same for the next 4 years, and pay your way? Nope.

Can you work a full time job, hit up the night classes, stretch it out to 6-7 years, and be just fine? Yep.

Just found out that some of these cretins have occupied the Arch in downtown Athens, Georgia as a way of supporting their brothers in NYC. Going to have a little talk with some of these nice fokes tomorrow after class and suggest they move their E36 M3 elsewhere.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Can you sleep until 11:00, grab a hot pocket, hit a couple of classes, hit the bong, watch reruns of seinfeld, order a pizza, tap that hot college ass, play nintendo, and crash at 2 in da mornin, only to do the same for the next 4 years, and pay your way?

Whoa, it's like you know me.

JohnGalt wrote: Just found out that some of these cretins have occupied the Arch in downtown Athens, Georgia as a way of supporting their brothers in NYC. Going to have a little talk with some of these nice fokes tomorrow after class and suggest they move their E36 M3 elsewhere.

They also occupied downtown Atlanta and got attacked unmercifully by the sprinkler system in the lawn they were camped out on.

Rep. John Lewis (a guy who marched with MLK in Selma, and took more than his share of firehose blasts and nightsticks over the head back then) showed up to speak to them and they decided to make fun of him instead of listen, so he just left without speaking. One of the local DJs criticized this move with a great line: "Guys, John Lewis has more protest marches under his belt than you've had baths."

I can understand being upset over times being difficult, but whether the Occupation movement's theme is recycled Communism or simply a group of people who have absolutely no unifying theme other than "We're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore," they don't really seem to be a viable alternative to business as usual.

Osterkraut wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Can you sleep until 11:00, grab a hot pocket, hit a couple of classes, hit the bong, watch reruns of seinfeld, order a pizza, tap that hot college ass, play nintendo, and crash at 2 in da mornin, only to do the same for the next 4 years, and pay your way?

Whoa, it's like you know me.

I know the type.