Ok, Apple haters, convince me

Beer Baron said:

In reply to Duke :

The only weirdness I get on my Android texting with people who use iPhone is that I frequently get the message, "[Person] liked [text of last message I sent]." Because the thumbs-up icon they see on their phone doesn't translate.

On iMessages you can hold down on the message and select from a few reactions, kind of like FB reactions.  We see it as a floating thumb or heart or whatever next to the message.  But you folks aren't out in the cold, because it texts the reaction.  That to me is not a big deal.

There is a separate thumb up image that works just fine between platforms if you text that instead of using the little reaction menu.

In reply to Beer Baron :

I get that same thing the other direction. Odd. 

Jesse Ransom said:

In reply to mtn :

The iMessages thing is maddening. Apple will neither adopt the more modern public text protocols nor allow Android to use their version.

 It's very much like saying "text shouldn't be a thing that works between any two phones" or "we're going to provide a browser that doesn't work with actual standards, so if you don't buy our server and use our nonstandard code, your site will look broken to our users."

I'm half surprised Apple doesn't put a "crinkling newspaper" audio filter over calls from non-iPhones.

I know all this and I'm still cross enough with Google to be writing from an iPhone. The whole situation sucks. Telephony shouldn't be this siloed.

This is why I refuse to use Apple products. Instead of working with 70% of phone users, they purposely make their stuff non-compliant. They do it with almost everything they build. It's a dick move by a dick manufacturer. Not for the purpose of building a better product, but for money. The fact that anyone willingly uses their products and gets sucked into that trap never ceases to amaze me. 

Wow, the hate runs deep, and pretty much without factual justification.

In reply to Duke :

It's not a case of hate. I could care less what people use. I just don't understand why people buy the product. From my perspective, it is inferior in almost every way and the manufacturer frequently purposely makes its product not compatible with the other 70% of the market. Yet Apple users are much like vegetarians or cross-fit people. They can't stand people who don't like their choice and are frequently very vocal about it. My brother is the same way. I'm pretty sure Apple beams that into the head of everyone that buys one of their phones. 

Duke said:

Beer Baron said:

In reply to Duke :

The only weirdness I get on my Android texting with people who use iPhone is that I frequently get the message, "[Person] liked [text of last message I sent]." Because the thumbs-up icon they see on their phone doesn't translate.

On iMessages you can hold down on the message and select from a few reactions, kind of like FB reactions.  We see it as a floating thumb or heart or whatever next to the message.  But you folks aren't out in the cold, because it texts the reaction.  That to me is not a big deal.

There is a separate thumb up image that works just fine between platforms if you text that instead of using the little reaction menu.

 

FWIW, if you are in a group with android users as an iphone user, the same thing happens.  RCS messaging protocol supports all those things, so android->android reactions, images, video, etc. work perfectly,  Apple just refuses to cooperate.

Toyman! said:

Jesse Ransom said:

In reply to mtn :

The iMessages thing is maddening. Apple will neither adopt the more modern public text protocols nor allow Android to use their version.

 It's very much like saying "text shouldn't be a thing that works between any two phones" or "we're going to provide a browser that doesn't work with actual standards, so if you don't buy our server and use our nonstandard code, your site will look broken to our users."

I'm half surprised Apple doesn't put a "crinkling newspaper" audio filter over calls from non-iPhones.

I know all this and I'm still cross enough with Google to be writing from an iPhone. The whole situation sucks. Telephony shouldn't be this siloed.

This is why I refuse to use Apple products. Instead of working with 70% of phone users, they purposely make their stuff non-compliant. They do it with almost everything they build. It's a dick move by a dick manufacturer. Not for the purpose of building a better product, but for money. The fact that anyone willingly uses their products and gets sucked into that trap never ceases to amaze me. 

 

 

Oh its 1000% a dick move.

I don't think either choice is wrong.

You have one company that has its own little isolated platform (hardware, software, communications protocol) that it controls and holds to a high level of user experience, but does these dick moves.

You have a bunch of other companies that use a bunch  of variants of this open-source OS on a bunch of different hardware and have user experience than ranges from pure berkeleying trash to pretty good to (probably) better than Apple.

I would 100% agree that if everyone used Android, the user experience for all would be better.  But it isn't happening :(

Toyman! said:

In reply to Duke :

It's not a case of hate. I could care less what people use. I just don't understand why people buy the product. From my perspective, it is inferior in almost every way and the manufacturer frequently purposely makes its product not compatible with the other 70% of the market. Yet Apple users are much like vegetarians or cross-fit people. They can't stand people who don't like their choice and are frequently very vocal about it. My brother is the same way. I'm pretty sure Apple beams that into the head of everyone that buys one of their phones.

I'm very tempted to say "OK, boomer" here.

I'm 58.  I've been using both Apple and Windows computers for almost 40 years.  I use both on a daily basis, if not hourly basis.  Your "70% not compatible" statistic is entirely made up.  If it ever was true, that was 30 of those 40 years ago.

Are you mad because you can't buy a $3 gas station charger for an iPhone?  Guess what: you can buy a $3 gas station charger for an iPhone.  The Office suite is 100% compatible between platforms and has been since what, 1997?  I use identical Evoluent wireless mouses on both my Windows and Mac computers.  I can buy the same cheap, big solid state hard drives for both platforms.

Each platform has strengths.  Each platform has weaknesses.  And both platforms are probably 95% compatible with each other at this point.

Duke said:

Wow, the hate runs deep, and pretty much without factual justification.

I think people are providing plenty of factual reasons for not wanting to use Apple devices. I don't see too a lot of "hate", though.

The RCS thing is moderately annoying. I get why Apple doesn't want to support it. They've somehow convinced the US market that green bubbles are bad, and if they decide to start supporting RCS on iMessage, they'd lose that. So, they default to SMS, which is very outdated, less capable and way less secure. That's their prerogative. It's worth pointing out that the "green bubble" thing is really just a US market issue. The rest of the world uses WhatsApp or Telegram or one of the other messaging apps.

Here's Tim Cook on phone text interoperability: Make everyone buy iPhones. I know the Internet has its issues, but it's got some benefits, and the underlying connectivity we enjoy (YMMV) is based on the idea that you define a protocol and then any device that speaks that protocol can communicate. Every now and then we get folks trying to get an exclusive market share of what should broadly be a commons, and that's a very bad thing IMHO.

Again, the biggest thing that's driven me to the bad behavior at Apple is what I regard as worse behavior by Google (and a couple of personal interoperability highlights; e.g. having half a clue what iOS stuff does when doing remote tech support for my parents). There's not a ton of point arguing because I think there's a strong case to be made for who's worse in both directions, and that's totally going to be an individual matter. It seems to me that it's bonkers that you need to pick one of these two buckets. Telephony and text shouldn't be any more platform-dependent than the Internet (is supposed to be).

To the OP: There's no great decision, and there's no wrong decision. We all hate our phones almost as much as each others'. I hope you find something that works well for you.

In reply to Duke :

Link: IOS or Andorid, Marketshare.

Text, in case Apple won't display the link for you. 

According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS, on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of August 2023. The iOS mobile operating system is highly popular in the Oceania region, with a 55.66% market share. This is followed by the North America with a market share of 54.32%. These regions are major markets for the selling and distribution of iPhones.

Toyman! said:

In reply to Duke :

According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS, on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of August 2023. The iOS mobile operating system is highly popular in the Oceania region, with a 55.66% market share. This is followed by the North America with a market share of 54.32%. These regions are major markets for the selling and distribution of iPhones.

I am not arguing market share.  I am arguing your point that Apple products are incompatible with everyone else.

In fact, I was assuming you meant they were 70% incompatible with 100% of the civilized world.  That is wrong.

Now, it appears that you believe Apple products are 100% incompatible with the 70% of the world that is civilzed.  That is even wronger.

But I will not belabor the point any further.

Duke said:

In reply to 4cylndrfury :

Has it stopped running?  I've got an old iPad that still runs fine, despite having hit the end of it's OS upgrade path.  I've never had one not run.

My 14-year-old iMac still runs fine, too, though a bit slowly.  I got free system updates for at least 4 major OS releases, if not more.  I can't bring it up to the current MacOS, it is true.  But it still runs fine on the highest mountain range version it can climb.

I have a Dell Windows 7 laptop upstairs, too, that is never going to work with a more advanced system.  It ain't just Apple.

 

does it power on? Yes. Can it do anything...not really. None of the apps function properly anymore. Not streaming, not games, not email...Safari still twitches like a jellyfish on the beach, failing to load most of the internet without problems. And almost everything else is either outright broken or on the verge thereof.

Well, except for the apple store app. Theyll still happily take my money.

In reply to Duke :

Well, you know what is said about assumption.

Thanks for the laugh. 

I'd maybe consider a google phone, but a lot of 3rd party android phones have way too much bloatware and weird stuff like beauty filters in the camera that are on by default. (I still can't believe people buy phones that watermark their pictures with the manufactureres logo) To be honest I'm still upset about when I bought an samsung phone in like 2014 and they dropped support within 2 years. But perhaps my most unpopular opinion is that windows phone was pretty good, actually

In reply to 4cylndrfury :

It's a 13-year-old tablet. I'm really not sure what you expect. I have a pair of Android tablets that are 5 years newer but won't do any more than that.

Computers age out - stuff like tablets, with limited on-board resources, even more so.

Really failing to share the outrage on this one.

gixxeropa said:

But perhaps my most unpopular opinion is that windows phone was pretty good, actually

Finally, we can all unite against a common enemy.

gixxeropa said:

I still can't believe people buy phones that watermark their pictures with the manufactureres logo

You're far from the only person doing the "I can't believe people buy _______" thing, but I think the salient point we have to keep in mind that it's not like the market is providing stuff that doesn't suffer from any of the issues that some folks consider dealbreakers, and wading through the entirety of the set, cross-checking with what's available where you are, or on your carrier, or what sort of subsidy you're giving up to go buy that instead of taking a more bloated phone from your carrier...

All I'm saying is that we're all trying to choose the least bad option from a giant swirl of things with lists of issues too long to go in a readable spreadsheet.

I agree it's bonkers, it's just hard enough to get through all the major bits; it's only dumb luck I haven't had that specific issue as it wouldn't have occurred to me that a phone would do that, so I haven't specifically avoided it! It certainly would have pissed me off no end if I had run into it.

In reply to Duke :

The outrage is that, old or not, its my device. They have it locked up, and wont relase it because...reasons? I dont want their OS if its not compatible, and I dont expect them to keep me as current as someone with a 6 day old iPhone 37 Ultradelux Platinum Premium Extrapro 12,000. I do expect them to let me do what I wish with the hardware that I own outside of their ecosystem when they stop supporting it. 

I could go to the aftermarket with my old android tablets, and so long as the processor and screen are up to the task, I could sideload whatever apps or software I want to them and let the hijinks ensue. 

This is where the EULA bs starts to boil my blood. 

ProDarwin said:

gixxeropa said:

But perhaps my most unpopular opinion is that windows phone was pretty good, actually

Finally, we can all unite against a common enemy.

I had a windows phone around 2014. Bad plan. Bad phone. 

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

I had the large nokia windows phone, thought it was a visually pleasing interface that had everything i needed pretty conveniently laid out. Not as customizable as android but that's not super important to me. It was mostly let down by the lack of apps, sometimes independent developers would fill in the gaps but then the company would shut them down without putting out their own version. (example was snapchat refusing to make a windows phone app but shutting down 3rd party ones and banning anyone that used them)

In reply to gixxeropa :

Mine was a Nokia as well. App availability was trash and the phone barely lasted 5 months before becoming incredibly buggy. I gladly jumped off the platform. 

Android with custom firmware. Sandboxed Google Services, and quit being tracked so much.

I understand this is not the choice for many, but it is for me, and I wont go back

gixxeropa said:

But perhaps my most unpopular opinion is that windows phone was pretty good, actually

I think that is an unpopular opinion only among people who didn't use one. I know 3 people who used one, and they all held onto it for as long as possible and really loved them.

They were too expensive for me though. 

EDIT: Obviously not, based on the prior posters. 

Opti said:

Android with custom firmware. Sandboxed Google Services, and quit being tracked so much.

I understand this is not the choice for many, but it is for me, and I wont go back

This is a thing I'm really curious about. Found an article on the de-Googled Android used by Fairphone (and others). Is your custom firmware a broadly available thing or more, well, custom?