Open enrollment time= OUCH!!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm cracking up over here at the people thinking that this is an issue with the insurance companies. The insurance company wasn't charging $171 previously. You can't buy coverage that cheap. What's happened here is that your employer apparently isn't covering the bulk of it any more. Premiums WILL probably be going up (by premiums, i mean what the insurance company charges) with the recent changes, but not by over 500%. I believe my premiums are somewhere along the line of $900/month for SWMBO and myself.

Yours is that much? Mine is less than 100$/mo all in. Wife, kid, the works.

mndsm wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm cracking up over here at the people thinking that this is an issue with the insurance companies. The insurance company wasn't charging $171 previously. You can't buy coverage that cheap. What's happened here is that your employer apparently isn't covering the bulk of it any more. Premiums WILL probably be going up (by premiums, i mean what the insurance company charges) with the recent changes, but not by over 500%. I believe my premiums are somewhere along the line of $900/month for SWMBO and myself.

Yours is that much? Mine is less than 100$/mo all in. Wife, kid, the works.

I didn't say i paid $900/month... I'm saying the plan costs around $900/month. I think i actually pay around $140/month with Dental, Vision, HRA, STD, and Life for both of us.

Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans??

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

I'm going to make fun of mndsm for missing the point, considering he's "one of the bad guys" like me, just at "That other company."

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Subsidized by work for "the man" or as Ben puts it "the bad guy".

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Super high deductible?

aircooled wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Super high deductible?

Nah, it doesn't really exist. There's a disconnect between what people see being taken out of their check vs. the actual cost of the policy.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

I'm one! 3 kids and a wife. $140 ish every three months.

Oh wait...I am Canadian.Sorry.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

aircooled wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Super high deductible?

Nah, it doesn't really exist. There's a disconnect between what people see being taken out of their check vs. the actual cost of the policy.

WINNER! And trust me, as the one who pays the actual cost of the policy, the real cost of a family plan more like $1400 a month. I know this, because I have shopped, and shopped, and shopped, and I can't beat that number for a realistic policy. And by “realistic” I'm talking $10/$30/$50 prescription coverage, $2000 deductible and $30/$60 office visit copays. Certainly not fancy by any stretch.

Our premiums have risen by about 10% a year even as our deductibles and copays have gone up, too. It's ugly out there, trust me. And has been.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Filthy canadians with their beady eyes and flapping heads.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Filthy canadians with their beady eyes and flapping heads.

I'm still confused as to with how subsidized our care in Canada is, that a typical Canadian (if you were to compare in similiar economic climates across each nation) earns about the same as a typical American at the end of the day. You'd think with that sort of baggage ($1400/month for instance) tied to each employee that we'd be paying astronomically higher prices for goods. But we don't.

I'm curious as to who will try and say it's because out healthcare is subpar compared to the US? It's a terrible argument. Pretty sure if you looked at healthcare stats worldwide, Canada would rank higher than the US.

And nobody is paying $1400/month to cover their family here. And somehow, our "poor old business owners" are still raking in the cash.

This isn't adding up guys... somebody, somewhere, is making obscene profits beyond reasonable on your guys' health.

HiTempguy wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Filthy canadians with their beady eyes and flapping heads.

I'm still confused as to with how subsidized our care in Canada is, that a typical Canadian (if you were to compare in similiar economic climates across each nation) earns about the same as a typical American at the end of the day. You'd think with that sort of baggage ($1400/month for instance) tied to each employee that we'd be paying astronomically higher prices for goods. But we don't. I'm curious as to who will try and say it's because out healthcare is subpar compared to the US? It's a terrible argument. Pretty sure if you looked at healthcare stats worldwide, Canada would rank higher than the US. And nobody is paying $1400/month to cover their family here. And somehow, our "poor old business owners" are still raking in the cash. This isn't adding up guys... somebody, somewhere, is making obscene profits beyond reasonable on your guys' health.

I believe taxes are somewhat different, and costs for the actual care are regulated up there, as it's largely socialized. (I could be wrong.)

Costs charged by the healthcare providers (those administering the care, NOT insurance) isn't regulated down here.

HiTempguy wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Filthy canadians with their beady eyes and flapping heads.

I'm still confused as to with how subsidized our care in Canada is, that a typical Canadian (if you were to compare in similiar economic climates across each nation) earns about the same as a typical American at the end of the day. You'd think with that sort of baggage ($1400/month for instance) tied to each employee that we'd be paying astronomically higher prices for goods. But we don't. I'm curious as to who will try and say it's because out healthcare is subpar compared to the US? It's a terrible argument. Pretty sure if you looked at healthcare stats worldwide, Canada would rank higher than the US. And nobody is paying $1400/month to cover their family here. And somehow, our "poor old business owners" are still raking in the cash. This isn't adding up guys... somebody, somewhere, is making obscene profits beyond reasonable on your guys' health.

I think that while we do have a fairly good subsidized health care system, no one can argue that the best care available is in the US if one can afford it.

scardeal wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Blame and reality are rarely the same- at least in corporate America. If they called it "Obamacare"- then the odds of trying to make you vote a certain way is very high. Or at least make you mad enough to go out on the web and post angry things. Which worked, apparently.

I think it might have been on NPR, actually. But then again, it might not have been. I don't remember for sure. If I'm angry about Obamacare, it's far more about other aspects than the financial impact of it.

NPR reported it, someone came up with the news for them to report.

Either way, you felt compelled to post about the report in this thread. So getting you angry enough to do "something" worked. Sucker.

HiTempguy wrote: I'm curious as to who will try and say it's because out healthcare is subpar compared to the US? It's a terrible argument. Pretty sure if you looked at healthcare stats worldwide, Canada would rank higher than the US.

Many Canadians come down to the US for tests that they'd be waiting for under Canada's healthcare laws. Mammograms are a good example.

dj06482 wrote: Many Canadians come down to the US for tests that they'd be waiting for under Canada's healthcare laws. Mammograms are a good example.

What are the real statistics about this? I keep hearing CANADIANS like people living in America's Hat, in this thread and elsewhere defend the quality and low cost of Canadian healthcare. I've seen and heard lots of accounts from credible sources of the overall healthcare quality rating for Canada and other socialized medicine nations being higher than that offered in America. I've in these same threads seen lots of people from America saying what your saying about many canadians coming down to America for our superior health care.

I'm by no means taking a contrary position to your statments I'd like to see some actual facts and studies to back this up.

nocones wrote: I'm by no means taking a contrary position to your statments I'd like to see some actual facts and studies to back this up.

I don't know of any studies involving statistics regarding Canadian using US healthcare vs their own system.

However, there are historical facts about how the two systems evolved differently. One became integrated into a national culture (and budget) and one became a system that involved an employment benefit in conjunction with actual medical care.

In many ways it's an apples/oranges comparison; similarities exist but there are huge differences, too.

In reply to nocones:

Yes, Canadians DO go down to the US for healthcare. They absolutely do.

But to suggest it is for health reasons, not really. It's for time reasons. Or, as others have pointed out, to get the "best of the best" care.

This is what many people don't understand about "universal" healthcare. It is a limited resource. As such, if you have (issue A) that doesn't need to be rectified instantly, but another person has (issue B) that needs care right now, guess who is getting treated if the issues utilize the same resources?

I personally have NEVER had a problem getting access to timely treatment of issues I've had (asthmatic, shoulder surgery due to abnormal bone growth, dental care, etc). Yes, my parents have paid for private MRI's before because they disliked how long of a wait it was at the local hospital. But the private MRI was worth it to them to get it in a quicker fashion, even though it was not "needed".

When people make the system sound like it is an overbearingly prolonged and tedious process, they aren't being very rational about it.

As for my comment on "better" healthcare, if you take the national average of "healthcare" as a whole (poor or rich), Canada's system provides a better average. This is MY OPINION, but my wording is such that X amount of healthcare is spread more evenly over the populace, whereas in the US, I can very much see it being condensed onto people who can afford it (middle class and up). I can't go and find a billion reports backing it up, but at a quick glance (even with this thread), what the people (you guys) are saying I'd say supports my quick and dirty hypothesis.

nocones wrote: I'm by no means taking a contrary position to your statments I'd like to see some actual facts and studies to back this up.

Just more anecdotal evidence, but ask the blue S2000 STR driver at the next autocross what his thoughts are on it. He didn't have very many good things to say about it.

I'm not gonna use his name here, but I'm guessing that you know him. DarknessPH is his handle on sissynet.

Mmmmm...Tricare.

Yes, Mr. Scott certainly likes the current health care system.
It's made him a rich man. At the expense of most of the rest of us.

I've lived in four countries (US, Canada, Ireland and England). If you are solidly middle-class (and have a brain) you can do OK with the US health care system. It's the folks who are lower on the economic totem pole who get screwed. In the other countries, health care is more evenly distributed. Of course the wealthy can buy improved health insurance in a social democracy too, but at least everyone starts on a more level playing field.

Everyone has a right to go to a doctor. And doctors are bound by the Hippocratic Oath. They cannot turn sick people away (and I'm glad about this). And I don't expect them to work for free.
So under this circumstance, I will (somehow) be paying for the indigent or those who choose to "take a chance" to go without health insurance (but then use an emergency room for health care). Consequently, I'd rather have a single payer system. It's more fair to more people.

The folks who come down from Canada might be the doctors!
Pay for US physicians is higher.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm sorry, did someone say Romneycare? /flounder

Which is why both Red and Blue are the problem, not the solution.

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

aircooled wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Who the berkeley ARE you people with $100/mo. family plans?? Margie

Super high deductible?

Nah, it doesn't really exist. There's a disconnect between what people see being taken out of their check vs. the actual cost of the policy.

WINNER! And trust me, as the one who pays the actual cost of the policy, the real cost of a family plan more like $1400 a month. I know this, because I have shopped, and shopped, and shopped, and I can't beat that number for a realistic policy. And by “realistic” I'm talking $10/$30/$50 prescription coverage, $2000 deductible and $30/$60 office visit copays. Certainly not fancy by any stretch. Our premiums have risen by about 10% a year even as our deductibles and copays have gone up, too. It's ugly out there, trust me. And has been. Margie

No prescription coverage and no office visit coverage with a $250 deductible and maximum out of pocket of $2,500 in network $5,000 out of network gets me a $230 a month rate on myself and a 7yo,6yo,and 20 month old with BCBS. Adding my wife didn't drastically change the rates but she has great coverage through work so it wasn't needed. My office visits are only $70-$90 anyway and my prescriptions are around $40 a month so that plan makes sense for us currently. I could lower mine drastically with a much higher deductible and an emergency only plan and be pretty close to the mythical "$100 a month" policy but they do not allow that when you include a baby on the policy. Soooooo-either the $100 a month people are covering only $100 a month while their work covers the rest, or they are cherry picking a minimal coverage plan that is only available with a very very narrow set of parameters and never ever available as a group employee plan.

I hear you, Joshua, believe me, but you try selling your employees a health plan that doesn't cover prescriptions or office visits, even if you do pay all the premiums. As it is, at least once a month I hear someone at the office say something along the lines of, "I had to pick up a prescription, and whoa! they wanted $30!!" or "I had to go see a specialist, and whoa! it was SIXTY DOLLARS!"

Maybe I should start replying with, "I just paid your premium, and whoa! It was FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!"

Margie