Owning a plane on a grassroots budget?

Just keep in mind that a finished Glasair is in the neighborhood of $75-100,000.

Whatever you do, keep us updated!

Appleseed wrote: Just keep in mind that a finished Glasair is in the neighborhood of $75-100,000.

The tricycle and taildraggers Is go for 35-45k, once you get in to the retracts or the IIs and IIIs they start getting up there though.

Retirement plan could very well entail one of these.
http://m.controller.com/ListingDetail/Index?listingId=1205955&categoryId=2

Less $$ than the 400 I hotlinked earlier, but would still do the job nicely.

In reply to e_pie:

Hopefully fuel stays at $5 to 6... last summer for a while fuek at LUK was up to $8!

Double check the regs, if you don't build it (51%?) you don't get the repairman's certificate... not sure if you can do anything more than a pilot is allowed (oil changes, etc.).

If you're taking longer trips don't forget the baggage! Weigh your suitcase the next time you go for a long weekend, you might be surprised. Glassairs have room for a backpack I think. Maybe look at the Falco.

C150/152? Well it's slow, not much faster than driving, esp if you factor in preflights and parking. Oh, another point, if you fly on a trip don't forget the cost of a rental car.

Buying a used experimental is a real crapshoot. Many are flawless in construction but many are downright scary! Of course that's not only the experimentals. I recently did an avionics job on a Baron. The owner, a fellow IA, "inspected" the plane at purchase to comply with the annual and shows up with a laundry list of complaints. For instance the #2 NAV indicator was inop. After I got in behind the panel and spent hours sorting the rat's nest that was the bastardized wiring, I found that not only was it not hooked up but there was not even a harness to plug it into! How could he sign off the annual without looking back there?

Look at insurance too, esp if the plane doesn't use a certificated engine. Some companies won't insure anything without a certificated engine.

Personally, I would look at a Mooney. As fast as a Bonanza, Almost as fuel efficient as a Glassair. Push rods instead of cables (that could be personal preference but I think a cable is more likely to fail than a pushrod). Older ones can be had pretty cheap.

What are Mooneys like to insure and maintain? I know the retract gear adds quite a bit of complexity, and thus cost, but how much more would I be looking at?

I'll have to double check the FAR, but I'm pretty sure the only thing you can't do as a second hand owner of an experimental is the annual.

If I bought a used experimental I'd try to get a well proven one with a decent amount of airframe hours (but hopefully a lowish time engine).

I've been eyeballing this one for the longest time. http://steveweaver.com/n58gm.htm

Actually I just thought of something I forgot about that makes getting a certified aircraft much more enticing.

I was talking with my CFI a few months ago about buying a plane and he mentioned leasing it out to our aero club to help pay for it and to get free or almost free storage.

I might have to take a closer look at the Mooney, it really does have about the same performance as the Glasair, same cruise speed and only 1-2gph more but that's not a huge deal breaker. Besides, 4 place and 200lbs more cargo capacity would easily make up for that. Also, also, once I get my commercial license in a year or two I could make (well, lose less would probable me more accurate) money with it.

Well, NOBODY can do an ANNUAL on a HOMEBUILT! (Conditional Inspection)

That Glasair looks interesting but even for the price it hasn't been flown since 2010 and if you go to FAA.gov and run the N# it shows an owner in Ilinois. Normally it would show "pending" oe the name of the dealer... investigation required. Also the KX-170 can be trouble, if it's working then great. If it breaks then good luck getting it fixed. Time for a (used) Garmin 430 or 530. A non-WAAS unit should be reasonable BUT when the ADS-B mandate comes up you will need a WAAS unit and either a UAT or an ES transponder.

That said... you could not offer flight instruction in the Glassair but you could in a Mooney.

Mooneys can be harder to maintain because of the tight packaging but I, personally, haven't seen any different than any other airplane. Cost depends on the model... an Ovation will cost more than a "C". An early J model seems to be where the price vs speed graphs intersect. Costs shouldn't be any different than any other retract single.

For about the same money http://steveweaver.com/n6998v.htm

Spinout007 wrote: Maybe like I said some grass strip hopping, find some where with a strip and a close by fishing hole.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.502366,-81.576533&spn=0.02002,0.038924&t=h&z=15

You're welcome.

Yeah the Illinois thing threw me off too, apparently that Steve Weaver guy is just a broker and doesn't carry any inventory, he just lists and sells planes for people.

I am going to have to dig deeper in to the Mooneys, they are looking really good on paper at the moment.

I see a plane almost every weekend, I believe it's a Mooney. There's a black patch at the rear of the cabin roof that holds a parachute, a bollistic recovery system or BRS.

I was told by a CFI that the plane flat spins and the chute is a bail out. It has to be replaced every ten years at a cost of $50,000. If this is what you're looking at, add $5,000/year to your costs.

That's a Cirrus SR22, waaayyyyy out of my budget.

Especially if you have to buy that new chute!

I have a friend that built a Long E-Z, took 7 years. I'm not gonna tell you it will do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs, but hotdamn is it a hoot!

e_pie wrote: I am going to have to dig deeper in to the Mooneys, they are looking really good on paper at the moment.

They are kind of neat planes. Very sporty in their layout. The cockpit is kind of like a Corvette or lotus, you sit very low in the plane, partially under the instrument panel. Probably not a good plane for an older or more "generously" sized guys. (My sisters ex had a 201)

Glasair Super II-S FT my Dad and I built. It's got about 10 years and 1300 hours on it at this point.

In reply to Karacticus:

If I was going to build a modern plane, a Glasair would be right at the top. Those are really nice planes.

To the OP: Have you found any fractional ownerships worth looking into? I also wouldn't dismiss a 172/182 right away, they may be slow, but the the high wing makes ground observation really nice. There's also the 210 and the push-me/pull-me versions. I've done lots of hours in the small Pipers as well (Warrior, etc) and those can be nicely sized for the price as well.

???

Airplane 1974 GRUMMAN AA1B N8877L - $17500 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/for/3694215891.html

In reply to Gasoline:

Oh man, those are sweet! Slow little buggers, but the bubble top is righteous. My dad has a newer one with a bazillion dollars in avionics his neighbor is unloading (for a twin) if the OP is interested...

nocones wrote: It sounds like your assesment of costs is correct. Driven5 on here I know is planning to make this move at some point in his life so you may reach out to him and see if he has any information to share (He is big into spreadsheets and I am fairly sure will have one that would help pinpoint the costs to buy, own and operate several popular sport planes )

Well I don't expect I have a lot of practial advice to offer vs the far more knowledgeable/experienced people that have already chimed in. And as shocking as it sounds, I actually don't have such a spreadsheet yet either...Damn, now I need to start one!

I've seen some separate discussion on grass fields, and on Mooneys...I would just like to point out that while I've never even ridden in a Mooney, from my observations of Mooneys on grass I would be very apprehensive to combine the two. We simply called them flying lawnmowers.

EZ's are very cool, and I've always had a soft spot for the Dart Dragonfly even though the kits are no longer available.

While they're rather homely looking, the Sonex aircraft seem to have impressive bang for the buck even compared to many (most?) other kits planes. Due to my combined enjoyment of powered and gliders, the idea of 'touring motor-gliders' is rather intriguing to me. As such their Xenos has caught my eye as a sort of interesting possible alternative, even though it's definitely a compromised option. Not as efficient for rapid cross country travel or for building hours towards a carreer, but potentially quite good for getting more time in the air while able to use less fuel. Although admittedly I may not have thought this idea all the way through just yet, but it is still fun to daydream about.

This particular narrow bodied Sonex (SubSonex) could be quite interesting:

.

Speaking of gliders and Cessna 152's...Back when I spent some time learning in gliders, I always got a kick out of being towed by the camo painted 152 hot rodded with a STOL kit and the engine out of a 172. It was very GRM-esque!

Javelin wrote: In reply to Karacticus: If I was going to build a modern plane, a Glasair would be right at the top. Those are really nice planes. To the OP: Have you found any fractional ownerships worth looking into? I also wouldn't dismiss a 172/182 right away, they may be slow, but the the high wing makes ground observation really nice. There's also the 210 and the push-me/pull-me versions. I've done lots of hours in the small Pipers as well (Warrior, etc) and those can be nicely sized for the price as well.

I wish I could do a fractional ownership, but I move around too often for something like that to work.

Gasoline wrote: ??? Airplane 1974 GRUMMAN AA1B N8877L - $17500 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/for/3694215891.html

Karacticus wrote: Glasair Super II-S FT my Dad and I built. It's got about 10 years and 1300 hours on it at this point.

That's awesome, are they as nice to fly as I've read?