I'm kinda going out on a limb here with this, and I'm not sure if it's appropriate, but I have a family member who I believe might be addicted to prescription painkillers (like oxycodone). In the past few years, she's needed surgery for various ailments, and she's been on some heavy stuff. She claims she is not addicted in any way, and uses pills only when absolutely necessary. There are many reasons why I think she's addicted:

-She constantly talks about pills. She is always talking about how she was on this or that, and even offers things to others. She is basically a walking pharmacy. She claims she doesn't need to take pills, but always has a good supply on her. And when she doesn't...

-She gets angry when she doesn't have her pills. Last week, she asked me to pick up pills for her at a pharmacy. I was with her kids, and she put me between a rock and a hard place and leveraged me to get them (which I now regret immensely). I first declined, and then a switch flipped and she got very angry. She claims the anger is from her "stressful day".

-She is constantly lying. She has been doing this for years. She has been in and out of work for years now (in the car business). She told me recently that she got a new job and she signed a contract and everything, and she was excited to start. After two weeks of working, she was out of a job. She then told me she never signed a contract and that it was a temp role. This happens every few months. She lies about EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME.

-She is always "fake" with people, and even herself. She puts on personas and lives in this fantasy world where she thinks that she can do whatever she wants because she is more important than everyone else. People that don't know her buy into it, and after being friends for a short period of time, they figure her out and ditch. Those who do stick around are similar to her. It's at the point where I haven't interacted with the "real" person in years. She has even tried to split my wife and I over the years.

There's a lot more I can go into, but I won't (for now). I called her out recently on this after an incident last week, and it of course was taken the wrong way. She has the rest of the family on her side because she manipulates everyone but me, and they now think I am a jerk. She has friends and other family members calling me trying to get me to "take back the accusations".

Any suggestions? I feel like she's addicted. Everyone says she isn't, and I am crazy. I have no idea what to do.

Addicted. I know people just like that.

2 is a major sign.

First, if she's had multiple surgeries over the span of a few years and has taken the painkillers to the letter of the script, it'd be almost impossible for her to NOT become physically addicted. After my surgery in June I stopped taking the oxy I was prescribed a 90 day supply of based on 4 hour intervals after 10 days when at the 3:50 minute mark after taking it, my skin would begin to intensely itch. I couldn't sleep for 3 days while withdrawing from it, afterwards everything was fine as the addiction was purely physical with no mental addiction. If you don't know the signs and feed the physical addiction the mental addiction is developed and conditioned. Once it's in place it's a different ballgame and uphill battle, this is what she'll be facing.

step #1 will be to cut off the supply of drugs into her system. You need to stop the physical addiction in order to tackle the mental side. Unfortunately, one the mental addiction has taken hold this step will likely need to be repeated multiple times.

step #2 remove her access to all drugs, including contacting the physicians that have prescribed them to her in the past and destroying any in her home, car, purses etc.

step #3, and this will be the most difficult and more often will lead to having to start back at step #1, is removing the enablers in her life, those are the people that you describe in the 4th point. More often than not they all some have sort of addiction issue, a lack of sense of reality and delusions of grandeur to overshadow their issues. This is often due to the fact they they feel that others without such issues feel that they're lesser people and look down upon them. Thusly they prop themselves up, often with lies and attempting to make themselves better then those whom they feel scorn by. Truth be told, they aren't bad or terrible people. They're people with a severe problem that causes major issues for themselves and those who love them.

The hardest part about that last part is often one of the most effective ways to accomplish the last part is to get them scorn by their addicted friends once they're in recovery (often via those scorn being spurned by viewing the recovering party as smug or that they're "better than them now", or to not have them reach out to their friends, even in an effort to assist them in getting help for themselves, once they're on the road to recovery. In a 28 day or even 90 day program, only 3-5 days is about the actual removal of drugs from the system. The rest is preparing the patient for being proud of who they are in recovery and attempting to broke the social ties made through addiction.

Silver, I have a family member who is VERY similar. Trying to get her straightened out, but its an uphill battle and probably wont get traction until she moves and has different healthcare providers. On average she has at least one or two doctors appointments a week and basically takes a shot glass full of pills in the morning and before bed. I dont even know what all the meds are, but I do know that some are painkillers.

Watching with interest. Hard to pull off a change and noone ever wants to cave to the "addict" label or allow that label to be attached to someone they care about.

I kinda blame her doctors as all they want to do is throw pills at her for every little thing.

The thing is here is I am having trouble telling if she's an addict or just an shiny happy person. She is vindictive, and quick to point out that I am not as "supportive" to the family as she is. In fact, she wanted to schedule a talk with me this week because she thinks I'm not doing enough. In the past, she has put exponentially more of a burden on my family than I ever have, both financially and mentally. She credits my wife for "taking me away" from my family and hates her guts. She thinks my wife is feeding me bad information and trying to split my family, which is definitely NOT the case. She even dropped the C-bomb on my wife ON XMAS a few years ago for "taking me away from my family". IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.

Her boyfriend, who is a really nice guy, wants to set up a meeting between me and her moderated by him because she wants to talk. They want me to drop the drug stuff, because they think I am overreacting. I'm really not willing to do so. The thing is, I want her to get better. I want her to be successful. And I want her to "snap out of it" and go back to the way she used to be, but I'm not sure that's ever going to happen. She blames everything that has happened to her in life on someone else. Now, it's my turn to take the blame.

I'm not playing that game anymore.

there are functional addicts out there, it doesn't mean that they aren't addicts. I'd talk to the BF privately about it. If she's a borderline functional addict, he may not realize the harm being done in enabling her and see that she's in actuality, slowly killing herself. Going back to step #3 that I listed, any change in her, will require a change in his opinion and stance on her issue. He'll also likely need to be the party to address the issue directly with her in order for her to voluntarily seek help. Functional or borderline functional addicts are often the most difficult to get into a treatment program as they haven't come close to hitting rock bottom and as they see it, they're managing their issue, as it isn't causing them with life altering issues or problems. They manage to tread water and as things slowly erode around them, whether it be relationships, careers, homes, they blame it on other outside factors as opposed to looking within, as they've been using for years and problem "X" wasn't a concern then.

Addict.

Also, hold your ground with him on it being an issue when you speak to him in private. Be prepared for fallout from her afterwards, as eventually, one way of the other, she'll find out about said meeting, and you're absolutely correct that she'll place blame on everything going on in her life on someone other then herself, and since she sees you as the enemy, in spite of only trying to get her help, you'll be her biggest target. Dig in and be more stubborn than her. Each time she tries to drag and knock you down, stand up, hold your ground and don't back down. It can be done so with compassion, but needs to be done. It's part of the process of not enabling her and also, allowing her to reach what is rock bottom for her.

Unfortunately, I have some experience here. Sounds like an addict to me.

As for recommendations: I have none. Which is why I haven't spoken to my father in 7 years. It's tough sometimes.

Number 3 - asking others to buy her pills - would worry me more than the rest.

The fact that you have so many warning signs, would also worry me a lot.

Remember, she may thank you someday for saving her life, and she may hate you for getting involved and saving her life. Either way...

SilverFleet wrote: The thing is here is I am having trouble telling if she's an addict or just an shiny happy person. ....

Or both. You can't fix her. She has to want to fix herself. Your choices are to walk away or continue to be manipulated by her, which will hurt you and your family, and by your family I mean FAMILY like WIFE, KIDS, dogs, cats, etc. Other family too like parents, but she has been manipulating them for so long, they may not realize it. She will eventually crash and burn. They all do. Some just take longer than others.

I agree that your suspicions are correct.
I more so just wanted to come in and say it is surprising how wide spread the Oxy/heroin problem really is.
As I point out to others, you may not want to admit it in public but I bet for everyone, you can find someone withing your family/social circle.
For me, it is my wife's cousin. Though this cousin lived just a couple houses down from my M-I-L, I made it very clear to my MIL that this cousin was to never be in her house, ever.

Aside from that, you have my sympathies but from my cynical side, I hold the personal belief that the person will never get better.
When I say better, I mean cured. Sure, they can have some good day, weeks, months, maybe even year but there is no cure.

pinchvalve wrote: Remember, she may thank you someday for saving her life, and she may hate you for getting involved and saving her life. Either way...

That's kinda the way I look at it. If my father's anger with me for not giving him money to feed his addictions causes him to finally straighten out, then our estrangement will be worth it. Otherwise, I just keep waiting for "that call" from a PD in VA.

I'm not a particularly emotional person in the first place. Push my buttons the wrong way and I will turn into a very cold mother-berker.

These situations are very difficult. But in the end, there is only so much you can do if the person doesn't want to admit there is a problem and doesn't think they need help.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Aside from that, you have my sympathies but from my cynical side, I hold the personal belief that the person will never get better. When I say better, I mean cured. Sure, they can have some good day, weeks, months, maybe even year but there is no cure.

I don't really agree with that.

"Cured" - No, you are correct. However, I know enough recovering addicts leading long, productive lives since over-coming the initial physical dependency. But it is a constant, on-going process - no drinking, ever. And only using prescription pain killers when absolutely necessary and only under medical supervision of a Dr. who understands they are dealing with an addict.

As I mentioned before, some of her friends and her boyfriend have contacted me in her defense to tell me that they have been there with her when she is in a lot of pain, and my accusations are unfounded. I asked them if the "pain" was actually withdrawals, and they said no. The boyfriend especially is driving home the point, saying that if she was really addicted, then he would have let other family members know. He and her both say that she would rather pass out from the pain than take a pill. She has also said that she can't be an addict because an addict would never give up their pills.

And a more troubling note: Her son who I am very close with had an in-depth conversation with me last week. He was with me when I picked up her prescription, and he paid for it. He said that this isn't the first time this has happened. He also went into detail about all the strange behavior she has seen out of her, including some really embarrassing stuff that has possibly forced two girlfriends of his to ditch him! She says that I was planting ideas in his head, but he was doing most of the talking. And for crap's sake, I'm not trying to do that!

I'm basically at the point now where I am going to just stop talking to all of my family because none of them get it. None of them want to see what's going on right in front of them, and I'm the jerk for calling her out.

She's addicted. Especially if you see/hear the need for even stronger versions of the same medication. Granted I didn't read but a few lines of the original post, but when you work with these people everyday in a busy ER, the warning signs go off pretty damn fast.

She isn't an addict if she has a prescription. She is dependant. When her doctor cuts off the prescription, and she has to buy them on the street, or switch to the much more easily available heroin, then she's an addict. Since the gov started cracking down of Oxycontin and such, heroin use in nice middle class moms has skyrocketed.

I have an employee who is dependent. He honestly requires them, as the crushed wrist bones are, well, painful as hell. He would love to be off them, since the pill timing and quantity rules his life, and he is gradually being killed by them. He is going to retire in the next couple of years, and see whether he can get off them using other things, but I don't know. Opoids are a berkeleying evil thing, unless you actually need them. Then they are a godsend.

This might help:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/chasing-heroin/

It's very possible to be an addict and be in physical pain without the medicine. So now you're in pain and physical withdrawal. Is it any wonder why people don't want to stop?
The alternatives for pain relief aren't as good as the heavy stuff so you really have to want to be clean for a reason to go down that road. She hasn't screwed up her life enough to want to fix it. She's a functioning addict. She'll either stay that way for a long time or she'll find some reason to try and stop.

I cannot pass any judgement here, not enough info. I lean heavily toward not really an addict, just an shiny happy person.

This hits real close to home since some of that sounds like me. I take a ton of heavy drugs all the time and usually have enough extra to share with friends who need a few. She probably talks about it so much because it dominates her life more than she wants it to and seems like a large issue that everyone else takes too casually for her to understand since she cannot escape the reality of her situation. She may even be venting her frustration and resentment at having to be tethered to them to get close to a normal lifestyle. It can be very stressful to explain the particulars to others and it can make me angry with them when they question me about things that they clearly don't understand.

One thing I can say unequivocally: Chronic conditions / pain management is almost impossible to understand from the outside. It usually isn't through lack of trying from concerned parties but I know how hard it is to explain in any appreciable way from the inside.

It sounds like there are a lot of other issues between you two that are adding emotional stress to the relationship and that this is just another place where you do not see eye to eye. I know that you are a really nice guy so I am guessing that she is a raging vajajay.

I totally agree that you should be suspicious and trust your feelings, but it would take a lot more evidence to convict her in my eyes. I also agree that the opiate issues running rampant these days are a big problem for an almost inexplicably large percent of the population. I personally never, ever use my prescriptions counter to indicated due to the fact that I know myself well enough to never trust myself...

One thing I do not agree with is the popular and crazy anti "addiction" witch hunts that go on these days. Through experience I can personally refute the claims about needing to go through a process and never again even touching a former addiction; just plain bullE36 M3 that works for some but is not necessary for everyone. The whole physical / mental aspects are another area that too many want to simply paint large swaths of the population with a single brush instead of realizing that people are individuals with their own specific needs. I think that too many people have been hurt by junkies that they (perhaps rightfully) react quickly and harshly but without a specific and rational judgement based on the particulars of the situation.

I always play devil's advocate and am often contrary to the popular opinions but I really just want to inject a little bit of knowledge from the inside. Being dependent on (not addicted to) drugs is a E36 M3 way to live and is as complex of a subject as any other; hardly ever a black and white answer for all cases. Of course, I have considered that you are even less clued in than you realize since she may have her boyfriend and family telling major lies to cover up for her (and thus themselves by proxy) in the process. In that case E36 M3 changes dramatically.

Unless there is a bunch being held back I am gonna stick with my ruling of an shiny happy person with major family and responsibility issues but doesn't sound like someone who needs to detox and reprogram... maybe just grow up a little...

JohnRW1621 wrote: Aside from that, you have my sympathies but from my cynical side, I hold the personal belief that the person will never get better. When I say better, I mean cured. Sure, they can have some good day, weeks, months, maybe even year but there is no cure.

I disagree with you here. Unfortunately, though, I do believe this is how the VAST majority of cases end, because in general addiction is treated as the cause and not the symptom of mental illness that it usually is. Its the old correlation/causation mistake.

Even in this case: Placing any and all blame on others? The incredibly inaccurate self-image? Manipulating people? Acting fake? Lying compulsively?

I see those all (and drug misuse included) as symptoms of a mental illness. They are not symptoms of the drug misuse.

In reply to mazdeuce:

I have a certificate for use of one of said alternative methods, and in conjunction with an ice machine, it works quite well. I had my doubts an initially was against it, but refused to take oxy or perc. and am unable to take ibuprofen, nsaids, aspirin or Tylenol. The only concern I'd have is for someone who regularly operates a motor vehicle. I don't want to pollute this thread and make it about some of the alternatives, but I stared physical dependancy on oxy in the face and stepped away from it cold turkey at a time when my docs said that I absolutely needed it for the pain. I've never once had any feelings of dependancy with said alternative.

More info on symptoms/signs

Certainly sounds suspicious and I would tend to agree with you. Unless she's naturally a pretty blatant shiny happy person. Easy to head down the rabbit hole. There's a lot of variation in how people experience pain, their tolerance to it and tolerance to the addictive properties of the meds. She may very well have pain issues from medical problems, prior surgeries, etc. and be addicted to pain killers. In the medical community there is a lot of focus on the issue and if she is having an issue will likely have it come to a head sooner or later (more likely later) through scrutiny of her doc's prescribing practices. There are a number of legislative proposals bubbling up to put more monitoring in place in the not-too-distant future. Hopefully she doesn't hurt herself or someone else in the meantime...

Dr. Hess is correct - needs to be her decision to deal with it. Not something you're likely to fix - protect & insulate your family from the effects as much as possible.

One thing's for sure, if a family member called my wife the C word at all - much less in front of "everyone," I would be done with that person until major changes came through along with sincere apologies. There's not enough time in life to put up with people like that.

And I love my family dearly and spend many hours a week with them. But they do not get to make statements like that about my wife.

The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is this: everyone (being family and her friends/boyfriend) thinks the situation is fine and that I'm out of line.

She says that having me in her life is important. I told her that she needs to get a hold of herself and to live in reality, where doing whatever you want with reckless abandon can have consequences. And it has for her: she's been arrested a few times for things (not drug related, that I know of). Is the "living in her fantasy world" thing and the drug thing connected? I have no idea, but it could be.

I've told my family that I'm sick and tired of being the only one to speak up and stand up to this. I fear that she will end up dead sooner than later, and that sucks, because it can be prevented. Maybe the only way to get away from it is to raise my hands and back away, never to communicate with any of them again. I really don't know.