Without having read through this entire thread, the original post sounds like real bad news to me.

I have a 2nd cousin who married a minor league pitcher. Nicest guy you could imagine, the handful of times I've met him, and by all accounts was an upstanding and motivated guy. Had a nice minor league career (and mind you his wife was doing pretty OK in her job as well), kind of on the brink of breaking into the majors most of the time until he started breaking down with injuries later on. Had a series of surgeries as a result of said injuries and in the process of recovery apparently became addicted to pain killers. When that became "not enough," started selling the pills and using the proceeds to buy heroin. The situation had progressed to this point without his wife or her family knowing anything, until one day when he went to drop their two young daughters off at the mother in law's house, then passed out behind the wheel about 10 min later, slamming into a parked car and catching his on fire. Witnesses said it went up so quickly they never would have been able to get the kids out of their car seats. Really scary E36 M3.

Pretty much everything came unraveled from that point and everyone saw the blatant warning signs that were missed. Came to find out he was stealing from his wife's bank accounts and had put the family deep into debt, ect, ect. His wife and her family cut off all contact and to my knowledge its been that way to this day. Really sad story, but seems all too common these days.

Your family appears to be in denial. The warning signs are all there and they are choosing to ignore them. The situation will come to a head, one way or another, sooner or later. I really don't know what else to tell you, but I don't think this is something you can tackle without everyone's support.

Strait up addict.

Hold your ground. If you want to talk off list I would be glad to at least discuss things with you. I don't promise to hold all the answers but I have lots of personal experience with a family member that went down the opiate road.

The part that hits home with me the most is you mentioning she has kids. If nothing else they need to be protected (not necessary by you) and taken care of (not necessary by you). You can be there advicate but do not make them your responsibility (unless you are willing to make a life time commitment) There mother is sick. They need to be looked after because her addiction will override everything including there weal-fair.

SilverFleet wrote: I'm basically at the point now where I am going to just stop talking to all of my family because none of them get it. None of them want to see what's going on right in front of them, and I'm the jerk for calling her out.

I can't blame you for that. As many have said, she's not going to accept help until she thinks there is a problem, and maybe not even then.

Let her son (and other kids if she has them) know that you are there to help them to stay sane, but that you feel she is in denial and that your hands are tied against helping her directly as long as she stays that way. It will take some work to put that tactfully, but that's the ultimate message.

Good luck, man. You have my sympathy for being in this situation.

After my car wreck (messed up pretty good) I got scared about being addicted to the paid meds. I was on the good stuff for a year. After a while I started seeing how long I could go with an Oxycontin by just using over the counter pain meds. Eventually I was off the good meds completely by my own decision.

Fast forward a year and I wrench my back working in the yard. Hurt like hell. I grabbed the good pain meds and took one. Remember, it had been a year since I'd had good pain meds. Yup, the pain went away, as did a LOT of my concern for anything else. It was one hell of a mellow. Just...mellooooow. The next day I threw the whole bottle of Oxycontin in the trash. Damn I wanted another one, but that's how you end up in a bad situation.

Pain killers are great, but damn they are scary too.

Here's the thing: She's never used anything "illegal" outside of smoking the herb, and she hasn't in a while. I'd rather she did that than doing this though.

And guys, I don't want to turn this into a fight between people on here! It hasn't yet, and I thank you all for that. And I thank you all for your support! I feel like I'm a crazy person, not knowing what's real. It's so hard to tell whether she is really going through all this "bad luck" with surgery after surgery for various things, or if it's all just part of her delusional mentality.

On the wife getting called the C-word: That was BAD. My wife can get VERY crazy when provoked, and she just sat there and didn't even react. I, however, lost my mind, and other family members kicked her out of the house. I didn't speak to her for 6 months after that.

There seems like there's an incident with her every year. Last year, it was probably the worst one. On Super Bowl Sunday, I got into an altercation with her when she stormed into the house uninvited in a rage about while I was watching the game with the rest of the family, and she kicked and stepped on my dog in the process (I don't think she meant it, but still...). That set me off uncontrollably, and I let out all of the frustration I had been building about everything, including the drug use. It looked really bad and I got up in her face and it got ugly. I really regret doing that, and because of that incident, family will probably never side with me on any issues. She claims she has "PTSD" from her ex husband and my rage set that off, and my actions sent her into depression and she had to o to get therapy... blah blah blah. Just another excuse, if you ask me.

Again, I'm sorry for airing all of this out here. Probably not the best venue, but since my family is questioning me, I feel like I need validation that I'm not going crazy.

Oh, and let me add this: A few years ago, I had dental surgery to remove a particularly nasty cyst. It was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. They gave me some good stuff, and I needed it. It made me loopy and made me feel invincible, but I feel like I lost about 3 weeks of my life because I can't remember anything but bits and pieces of that time. After the surgery was done, I stopped taking them and switched to Ibuprofen, knowing that the stuff was a one way ticket to junkie-ville. That E36 M3 messed me up.

Who came asking what I was on, how much they gave me, etc? Yup, you guessed it.

How does this woman support herself?

In reply to spitfirebill:

Between working for a few weeks or months at a time/unemployment checks/ex husband alimony/family members, she squeaks by. I've long campaigned for her to switch professions (she is in the car business) but "she loves what she does" and makes "six figures a year".

Did I warn you about the dog?

If she claims to have PSTD suggest counciling, if she feels that you or your actions are a trigger, offer to go with her as a dorm or joint family counciling. In addition to dealing with any potential PTSD, the drug concern will be brought up at some juncture and the council will insist that it be discussed and explored. Then if they deem it to be an issue, they'll provide constructive options for her and bring about ways that you can assist her in recovery for either issue. Use the possible PTSD as an open door to a solution for that issue, the narcotic concern and the posibility of mental illness (depression is most certainly an issue on her end whether she realizes it or not, with other possible issues to be addressed as well).

In reply to tb:

I'll disagree to some extent, but mainly because I tend to believe in the idea of "pain management" in the literally sense. To me, it does not mean "make the pain go away entirely" but more along the lines of "make the pain tolerable". Pain is part of living. In some cases, life will give you a set of circumstances where pain becomes a permanent companion, sometimes through no fault of your own. But given current medical technology, there is no way we as humans can claim any right to be pain free just because it's uncomfortable. Right now, all we can hope for is pain to be managed, if not cured. Various pain-pills fall squarely under the "manage" column.

My father got drunk, fell off a ladder and shattered his foot. Obviously, a painful injury. So his Dr. prescribed Opioids to manage the pain. Not uncommon. My father's failing was not informing said Dr. he was a recovering addict (who fell off the wagon) and was also going through emotional issues from losing his mother recently. It was a recipe for disaster and it came to fruition. It would eventually cost him his job, his house, his marriage and ultimately his son. Perhaps I could have done more. Should have done more. I don't know. It's hard when you're 3 states away (I live in PA, my father VA). He knew he was addicted to drugs and alcohol and often said as much, but never really accepted that he was an addict. And there is a difference.

Since seeing the fall-out from all that after the fact (I was unaware of most of this until much later), the whole idea of "pain management" has been a subject I've pondered on quite a bit (obviously...). Especially since I participate in varies sports where I get hurt quite a bit. But the thing is, injuries are supposed to hurt. It's your body telling you, "be more careful next time". Or in the case of many professional athletes, they simply develop a tolerance to pain. I've fallen a bit into both camps. I had a very bad wreck last Fall where I hurt my back and could barely walk for over a month. At first, I self-medicated with massive amounts of ibuprofen, slowly lowering the amount as time went on and I felt better. Yes, I probably should have gone to a Dr. but it seemed as long as I was improving I didn't see the need. Six months later, my back is fine - or at least back to the normal pre-wreck levels of occasional pain.

Over the past 20 years of racing downhill mountain bikes, I've had many injuries. Many will be with me for the rest of my life. I simply accept a certain level of pain will always be with me. That said, when I had a kidney stone some years ago, that little bugger tested even my tolerance for pain. I hated oxycodone, however. Didn't really do anything for the pain and made me sick as hell. Vicodin was wonderful the first time I took it. Didn't do a damn thing afterwards. In the end, good old ibuprofen worked as well as anything.

If my own personal experience and of watching others go through their own ordeals has taught me anything, it's that there is no easy answer that works for every situation. Because everyone is different. The simple answer for the OP is to walk away as many have said, but when extended family is involved that isn't an easy decision to make. In the end, we can't really offer advice. We can only offer our own experiences - good and bad - with the hope it will help you find your own way.

Streetwiseguy wrote: She isn't an addict if she has a prescription. She is dependant. When her doctor cuts off the prescription, and she has to buy them on the street, or switch to the much more easily available heroin, then she's an addict. Since the gov started cracking down of Oxycontin and such, heroin use in nice middle class moms has skyrocketed.

This right here, if she runs out of doctors (and with the crackdown that's getting easier every day), it can quickly devolve into heroin, not only because it's easier to find, but also because heroin is a whole lot cheaper than pills on the street.

The woman is an addict and is probably Doctor shopping. I know my doctors wouldn't write script like that.

In reply to Ian F:

I definitely understand where you are coming from and totally respect your point of view.

I am sorry that things went wrong with your father; it is a very difficult situation for some and it sounds like he was in a bad place and didn't get the best treatment from his doctor. It really needs to be a total attempt at dealing with the situation by them and not just handing out more narcotics.

I actually think that we are agreeing on something important here: that this is an issue where nothing with work for everyone. I caution Tony to see her as an individual and not just the sum of his fears about her. Every story is very different and every physiology is unique so I would hesitate to make a judgement without being very, very clear on all of the details.

I think that when I see the patterns and behavior presented I simply thought: I know plenty of shiny happy people that act that way that are not users of any kind. Nothing seemed particularly alarming beyond the slight preoccupation with her medications. Some of that behavior is easy to understand if she were truly in considerable chronic pain because they are the daily reality of her situation.

I would certainly never say that it is impossible for her to have a drug problem, just that it is not necessarily the case that her E36 M3ty behavior must be caused by drug misuse / abuse.

Also, I definitely agree that pain is supposed to hurt and always felt the same way about it providing a useful function. Personally, though, I have come to understand that there is a huge difference between something like a broken bone vs. severe damage to the entire nervous system. I have always been the active type and have broken all kinds of stuff but I have had to redefine my understanding of pain when I damaged my spinal cord; the previous scale just doesn't even exist anymore. I am, luckily, mostly functional and although I take a dizzying cocktail of medications (and intensely uncomfortable procedures) very little of it is anything habit forming or comes with unpleasant side affects. I will never be pain free, but I can manage it enough to walk unassisted for a little while and turn wrenches a couple times a month!

We agree that opiates are really not a fun way the live, I kind of hate them too. I am happy to take much more ibuprofen and Tramadol than Oxycontin or Vicodin. That hard stuff messes with your head and I don't like to lose any time if possible. I know that I took a pretty good binge after being over prescribed / misdirected for a broken jaw years ago that I still remember little of. It is a wonder that I kept my job, girlfriend and cat but a little overindulgence could easily have left me looking like a dumb loser without any real physical or emotional dependency on my part.

I just hope people can understand various situations that exist in between completely abstaining and utter addiction. If anyone has gotten themselves too worked up over this I can offer them a Valium or two after they put away the torch and pitchfork.

I would fall on the side of definitely an addict. For the last 17 years we have been dealing with this with my step-son. He has been in rehab multiple times, years of counseling, many thousands of dollars spent trying to get him the help he needs. Bottom line: he says he's not addicted, he just likes to get high. One of the biggest difficulties is dealing with the denial. Her boyfriend and other family members are not helping by enabling her destructive behavior. Right now my step-son is in a halfway house and will probably be kicked out because he can't hold a job. I see many parallels in your situation. Stay strong, don't buy into the BS. As they told us at the first in-patient facility; all addicts are liars. It would not surprise me if she were not also taking meds not prescribed to her or other drugs. As painful as it may be, you cannot make her change. Until she is willing and accepts her issues, all you can do is stand by and watch her decline. It will happen! My thoughts and prayers are with you and all your family.

In reply to Don49:

You are spot on with my experience. No one can help them they have to want to help them self and this only happens when the hit bottom. How far down they have to go and how many people they take with them is the only variable. Some hit the ultimate bottom and die. Others permanently damage families. I like you was not the enabler and was deemed the problem. Only recently do those that were the problem realise I was right and try to pass it off as everything is ok. Well f them. I don't need that part of the family and all there bs.

I can stand tall and I know I did the right thing. Even when I was supposedly the problem.

Thinking about things I think that the OP should separate himself and his family from any and all contact with the problem and all the enablers. You are not equipped deal with this and you have no idea as to the stress and pain it will put your wife and kids through. Oh yang and then there is the potential for theft from you when things go bad. I had many many thousands of dollars stolen from me. In the beginning before I figured it out. Shut the door and keep those that are most important to you away from the forth coming storm. You may have a little bit of guilt that you did not help but always remember that in the end your immediate family is way more important.

Save one and permanently damage the many or protect the many from the one and her group of enablers. That is the choice your facing in the near future. I had to make it with out any preparation or anyone at least giving me a heads up. There is no really good answer. Both suck. You just have to pick the one that sucks less and that may not be the same as the choice I made.

Ohya. When making the choice try and take emotion out of it. It will not help and in fact probably hurt. I feel for you. The choices you are going to have to make are not of your doing. Always remember others brought this on you not the other way around. They have the problem not you. You have only seen little bits of the storm pass through your life. It will get worse if you let it.

Just a few key points I would like to reiterate:

Addicts lie, steal, etc. to obtain what they need and do not want to draw attention to it. The last thing an addict wants is attention directed at their addiction.

A person can be addicted and not realize it. People with or without prescriptions can be addicted.

No one starts down a path with the intention to become addicted. They may not even realize the possibility exists.

Addicts seldom realize the harm they are doing to those around them. This includes loved ones.

Carry the message, not the addict.

Follow your gut. And you and your family are in my prayers.

When i was addicted no one noticed but my girlfriend at the time(now wife). i never stole too get them, i worked full time and functioned normally as long as i had vicodin. started with a prescription after having my knee repaired at 18, due to an adverse reaction they killed the pain but made me hyper active instead of tired. I may have eventually gone the route that many of these people mentioned if it kept going.

Most addicts do not see themselves as addicts, my family has had alot of issues with drugs and alcohol over the years and they all think there fine until something goes way wrong. took my sister losing custody of her daughter to finally admit she had a problem!

Reading the OP hurt. I had a friend who got addicted after surgery combined with their rhumatoid arthritis. I should have done something before he died of a heart attack on my front landing.

Streetwiseguy wrote: She isn't an addict if she has a prescription. She is dependant. When her doctor cuts off the prescription, and she has to buy them on the street, or switch to the much more easily available heroin, then she's an addict. Since the gov started cracking down of Oxycontin and such, heroin use in nice middle class moms has skyrocketed. I have an employee who is dependent. He honestly requires them, as the crushed wrist bones are, well, painful as hell. He would love to be off them, since the pill timing and quantity rules his life, and he is gradually being killed by them. He is going to retire in the next couple of years, and see whether he can get off them using other things, but I don't know. Opoids are a berkeleying evil thing, unless you actually need them. Then they are a godsend.

This is so wrong.

You do the addict a dis-service when you give them a different label to hang onto.

Dependancey IS ADDICTION!

Addiction is the evil thing not the drug.

Many ADDICTS have prescriptions.

paranoid_android74 wrote: Just a few key points I would like to reiterate: Addicts lie, steal, etc. to obtain what they need and do not want to draw attention to it. The last thing an addict wants is attention directed at their addiction.

A whole lot of us just don't give a damn.

A person can be addicted and not realize it.

Normally we're the last to realize it.

No one starts down a path with the intention to become addicted.

Some of us do.

Addicts seldom realize the harm they are doing to those around them. This includes loved ones.

Actually, we generally know it, but the addiction wins.

Thank you all for your comments on this. It was not easy to even ask these questions, but I figured since you guys know everything, I would be able to get an informed consensus on the situation.

After reading all of this, I think she is both a dependent addict AND an shiny happy person.

The biggest challenge I face is getting other family members to realize what's going on. That may never happen. My family is one of those who sweeps things under the rug until it's too late. I don't understand why I'm the only one who sees what's going on, but that's the reality of things. I may have to just live with the fact that I may never get this person back to the way they used to be. They all blame me for "changing". If opening your eyes is considered "changing", then I don't want to close them ever again.

But seriously guys, THANK YOU. I felt like I was going crazy. It's good to know that I may not be wrong.

We're here for you. Even if it's just to listen.

SilverFleet wrote: I don't understand why I'm the only one who sees what's going on, but that's the reality of things.

Because many many times, it's a lot easier to pretend that there is no problem than it is to admit it, because that would require fixing it, too. I'm guilty of this, in small and large ways, but I've actively tried to get better about it, and it has improved my life.

Appleseed wrote: We're here for you. Even if it's just to listen.

This. Heck listening and attempting to provide any sort of perspective or sound guidance is about all I'm capable of these days.