Penn State president removed, Paterno out immediately
State College, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Coach Joe Paterno and the president of the school have lost their jobs, effective immediately, over a child sex abuse scandal at Penn State, university trustees announced Wednesday night.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/11/09/pennsylvania.coach.abuse/
Sad situation in every single regard.
The rioting is only making this whole thing an even more decidedly black mark on Penn State's image. I don't necessarily agree with the decisions the board of trustees has made, but I do understand that for them damage control is important. Paterno could have and should have done more, and I'm pretty sure he would never condone the actions of a lot of people on beaver street tonight.
Sometimes people suck.
not going to the police makes you just as guilty and anyone who admits to knowing should be charged as an accessory.
The whole situation really is sad all around. It's also a shame that Paterno is being thrust front and center. He's a part of it yes, but just because he's the most famous person there doesn't mean he should be the center of attention in this case. I do agree that he should have done more and it's time for him to go (it would have been time anyway, even before this scandal).
As for the kids rioting. Teenage college kids = stupid. Most of them probably don't even know what they're rioting about. It's a lot like when they do political protests or whatever on a campus. They don't even really know the issues, they're just chanting a catch phrase.
I really feel the need to rally behind these students flipping news vans over. Their actions just scream, "Listen to us, we are reasonable and have great ideas to share!"
patgizz wrote: not going to the police makes you just as guilty and anyone who admits to knowing should be charged as an accessory.
Paterno? He heard from a guy who said he saw something. Even twice removed he called his boss and told him of the allegations. Maybe he should have persued it further - but I have dismissed a lot of rumors heard second hand myself. Hindsight makes everyone look bad in this one. Remember - it took a grand jury three years to put this picture together - JoePa only had a tiny little view of it and he is the ONLY one who actually did do something about it.
N Sperlo wrote: I really feel the need to rally behind these students flipping news vans over. Their actions just scream, "Listen to us, we are reasonable and have great ideas to share!"
In central PA football is everything. I wish they were that upset about the patriot act, campaign finance, or gas drilling pollution. If you are going to jail for torching a village, at least you ought to be fighting the man over something useful.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:patgizz wrote: not going to the police makes you just as guilty and anyone who admits to knowing should be charged as an accessory.Paterno? He heard from a guy who said he saw something. Even twice removed he called his boss and told him of the allegations. Maybe he should have persued it further - but I have dismissed a lot of rumors heard second hand myself. Hindsight makes everyone look bad in this one. Remember - it took a grand jury three years to put this picture together - JoePa only had a tiny little view of it and he is the ONLY one who actually did do something about it.
This. +1000
There were so many people that dropped the ball. There have been reports about this all the way back to 1998. So many people failed. Joe is pushed front and center because he should be a moral beacon for all of these kids in the football program, and when you fail so tremendously to bring the correction action to such a heinous crime, you should be held liable. These are my opinions, maybe not yours.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Paterno? He heard from a guy who said he saw something. Even twice removed he called his boss and told him of the allegations. Maybe he should have perused it further - but I have dismissed a lot of rumors heard second hand myself. Hindsight makes everyone look bad. Remember - it took a grand jury three years to put this picture together - JoePa only had a tiny little view of it and he is the ONLY one who actually did do something about it.
Put yourself in Paterno's shoes. The school berkeleyed up and he's caught in the middle. The school should have gotten the police involved. I do thing think Paterno should have covered his ass (no pun intended) and called the police, but blame needs placing elsewhere. In his eyes it may have been simply hearsay. In my eyes, if it includes a child in that situation, its not just hearsay.
Paterno had a low level subordinate tell him about an incident involving one of his own direct reports. In my career, had that happened to me ,the direct report would have been fired by me, and then I would have told my superiors. And it would have been done pretty quickly. In the case of a child being molested I'd have been on the phone to the cops even if the perp was one of my best friends. Passing the info uphill to await instruction, or let someone else handle it is not leadership.
DeadSkunk wrote: Paterno had a low level subordinate tell him about an incident involving one of his own direct reports. In my career, had that happened to me ,the direct report would have been fired by me, and then I would have told my superiors. And it would have been done pretty quickly. In the case of a child being molested I'd have been on the phone to the cops even if the perp was one of my best friends. Passing the info uphill to await instruction, or let someone else handle it is not leadership.
This. Raping a 10 year old boy in a PSU shower? If I overheard that passing someone on the sidewalk I would call the police and get myself involved! Shame on everyone involved who simply towed the line.
DeadSkunk wrote: Paterno had a low level subordinate tell him about an incident involving one of his own direct reports. In my career, had that happened to me ,the direct report would have been fired by me, and then I would have told my superiors. And it would have been done pretty quickly. In the case of a child being molested I'd have been on the phone to the cops even if the perp was one of my best friends. Passing the info uphill to await instruction, or let someone else handle it is not leadership.
This +100. Paterno wasn't handed a rumor, he was given a graphic description. Before that day 10 years ago he and the others were ignorant of the disgusting things Sandusky was doing. As soon as they decided to respond to the knowledge with public silence, they were complicit. As far as calling the cops goes, if you are employed in any capacity in education it's the law in cases like this.
N Sperlo wrote: Put yourself in Paterno's shoes. ~ ~ ~ In my eyes, if it includes a child in that situation, its not just hearsay.
Here is the nut of it. Sandusky was questioned by police and admitted to showering with a kid in '98. No charges were pressed. No acton was taken by law enforcement. And the school was not aware of it since there were no public charges.
Sandusky continued to use the campus facilities. No one had any reason to suspect anything.
A janitor says to a guy who says to JoePa that he saw something happening in the shower with a very high profile, well respected 32 year associate. JoePas calls the PSU brass and informs them (more than a lot of people would do based on a message like that). He probably should have called the cops but if a stranger tells me that someone I have known for years and have no reason to suspect of anything... and the allegation is one that could destroy their lives with just the inkling... I probably execute some caution and call the dean.
I want to know where the DA and cops that didn't press charges in '98 are and why we haven't checked their bank accounts for a payoff. Nothing says "more cover-up" like firing the prominent old guy who was on his way out anyway and calling it "over".
It smells like attacking Iraq for 911.
EDIT: OK< not just like that but... seriously, the bigger the fall guy, the more there is to hide.
For those who think Joe shouldn't have been fired: Your child was the one raped in the shower. Your child. Would expect more out of Joe? I would.
In reply to RossD:
I can see where to place some blame on Joe, but don't you think there is someone else just as guilty if not more?
I can't say if there is criminal blame but, yes, the person that saw it happen, who is still employed by PSU, should be fired also. Everyone who knew, and did not repeatedly cry out to anyone who would listen has some guilt on them. In terms of PSU, I would want everyone that allowed it to happen, to be fired. Period. I don't know the law well enough to know if they commited a true crime but it sounds like to me they aided in allowing this man to rape childeren.
RossD wrote: For those who think Joe shouldn't have been fired: Your child was the one raped in the shower. Your child. Would expect more out of Joe? I would.
Turning that around - if you had a small bit of damning testimony but no evidence about a 32 year associate, a well respected coach, mentor and national icon in football - would you destroy their lives immediately or would you call your boss and ask that they discreetly look in to it further?
I am not saying JoePA didn't have a responsibility. He said so himself and said that in hindsight he should have done more. He is the only one who did anything at all - and he did so without the certainty of a profile that it took a grand jury 3 years to compile.
I would have expected the DA to do his job in '98 and none of this would have ever happened.
I would expect a janitor who sees an old dude banging a child in a shower to stop it or at least call the cops right then and there.
I would expect the University officials to call the police.
Like you said, lots of balls dropped. I just think that going after the most prominent one, who was already on the way out and who actually did the most of anyone... stinks. It is a way to stop the shallow public eye from dwelling on it so they can call it "over" and get off the network news.
I think it says a lot about where our head is as a country when the outrage is over the a coach being fired and not the president of the university. It's all just a popularity contest.
RossD wrote: they aided in allowing this man to rape childeren.
Error in the process and blame can be passed out among many making criminal charges extremely hard to nail people with, if possible at all. I would hold no remorse in knowing every person involved (in which blame can be placed upon (which is where it gets hard)) was fired.
It wasn't just a janitor hearing something -
As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and the showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put his sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy ... whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both [the victim] and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught. The graduate assistant informed Joe Paterno the next day.
I am from Wisconsin, I went to UW-Madison (Wisconsin). Barry Alvarez, as the coach, and now as the Atheletic Director, is the highest paid state employee. Not our governor, but the person who turned around the Badger football program. Getting paid a lot of money means lots of responsibility, and if this happened at Madison, I'd expect more out of Barry. And if he didn't, I would feel disappointed, but I'd also expect him to be fired.
As an institute for shaping our childeren into our future leaders, this cannot be tolerated.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:RossD wrote: For those who think Joe shouldn't have been fired: Your child was the one raped in the shower. Your child. Would expect more out of Joe? I would.Turning that around - if you had a small bit of damning testimony but no evidence about a 32 year associate, a well respected coach, mentor and national icon in football - would you destroy their lives immediately or would you call your boss and ask that they discreetly look in to it further?
Turining that back around, as opposed to runing the lives of the victims. Would you let their lives be destroyed by letting the "look in" be good enough, while seeing that person still hanging out with later victims after the incident?
If a "well repsected person, mentor, and national icon" in anything is being allegedly involved in a serious crime, does it matter what their status appears to be?
Although, the fact that we, as a society, have elevated sports figures so much that their impact on society is so great that we question serious allegations so much that we can brush them off is interesting. JoePa had a serious lack of judgement in 2002 that we are very much aware of- becuase of his stature and impact on an entertainment- does that give him the right to leave under his own rules, or should he be judged like everyone else?
A real question- what kind of crime does it take to call the police right away?
And another serious quesion- if this happens at your facility- what are you supposed to do? I would be willing to bet that most of us would, indeed, go directly to supervision, as that's the requirement. Makes sense for most typcical cimes, but does it make sense at a certain level of crime?
My wife and I talked a lot last night about the whole "chain of command" reporting structure that we all live in that may not include the police for quite a while. Or even a different authority vs. the local police for some.
It's an iteresting debate that this has really brought to light.
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