PSU Meltdown

i listened to the audio of the mark madden interview, and there were a couple of things that stuck out to me that lead me to feel madden is talking out of his own backside. at one point he said that paterno was weak, feeble, and had lost control of his organization, which opened the infrastructure up for "something like this" to happen. then a few sentences later, the hosts ask him if he thinks that Joe knew all of the details of the 1998 investigation, to which he responds "no, he knows everything that happens in State College". so there are seemingly conflicting views of the power and influence of Joe Paterno there. later on, he says something that seems to indicate that Madden is not quite as familiar with the grand jury proceedings as he lets on, given what alfadriver said about paterno's GJ testimony. he says (IMO talking out of his backside) that paterno is probably going to say that "the seriousness of the situation was not conveyed to him and he just thought they were horsing around in the shower", which was what one of the officials who were charged claimed in his defense.

Svrex, if its not money, its power, or like others have implied, the board of trustees didn't like Paterno in the first place, so took the opportunity to drop him off at the first available stop.

the point is that paterno had no firsthand knowledge of what went on, only what he was told by then graduate assistant McQueary, and passed it up to his immediate superior. he had no more certainty in the eyes of the law of what went on than you or I do after watching the media coverage. why has McQueary not been charged with failure to report to the police what he saw? if he is somehow not obligated to do anything more than he did then how is paterno so obliged? because he's the head coach? he passed it on to the AD and vice president of the university.

Strizzo wrote: he says (IMO talking out of his backside) that paterno is probably going to say that "the seriousness of the situation was not conveyed to him and he just thought they were horsing around in the shower", which was what one of the officials who were charged claimed in his defense.

If the radio guy is claiming that Paterno said that, the GJ report is very clear otherwise.

The details what the GA saw was very detailed. I wish I could get that out of my head. I'm sure that testimony came from McCleary.

The report then has the part where Paterno testified, and what he said was pretty darned detailed, but not fully explicit. That's exactly the part that doomed Paterno's retirement. It was in his words that he knew what McCleary alleged happened, and that McCleary was incredibly distraught. Paterno tells the Grand Jury that this is what he told the AD and the VP- both of which are being charged with lying and not reporting it.

Not sure how that impacts what you are thinking, but if the radio guy somehow is saying that Paterno didn't say it right, his testimony sure says otherwise. The real interesting part is that this testimony took place sometime between 2009 and 2011, when the GJ investigation took place. So even in his "old feeble age"- he was quite clear on what he remembered in 2002.

He lost the right for the feeble old man defense when he refused the board's request to resign in 2004.

He had to go. Period.

Datsun1500 wrote: How do you see a 10 year old getting raped in the shower and just leave? Not 2 guys messing around, 10.

+infinity.

You witness the graphic nature of what Mike McQueary saw and walk away?? He watched a 10 year being anally raped by a nearly 60 year old man and went home and slept on it? At a minimum, he should have assaulted Sandusky, followed next by a call to 911. He may have done what was legally required, but he failed the moral test immeasurably.

Strizzo wrote: the point is that paterno had no firsthand knowledge of what went on, only what he was told by then graduate assistant McQueary, and passed it up to his immediate superior. he had no more certainty in the eyes of the law of what went on than you or I do after watching the media coverage. why has McQueary not been charged with failure to report to the police what he saw? if he is somehow not obligated to do anything more than he did then how is paterno so obliged? because he's the head coach? he passed it on to the AD and vice president of the university.

So if your unpaid intern told you that they saw a crime, which was being done by someone you have known for decades- a good friend. A very bad crime, mind you. A crime that always involves long prison time if convicted. An the intern is very, very certain of what they saw.

You pass that onto your boss.

Then they do nothing- which is very, very bad, no question.

And it's also bad that your unpaid intern didn't do anything more, too- debateable, but I'll give you that.

But over the next decade, you see that this person is still hanging around your facility. And is doing it with more and different people that they did the crime against in the first place. And this access puts your employer at risk for civil liabilty- on a very high level, too.

So, you know nothing really happened with the proper authorities. Do you have any responsibility to make sure the proper authorities are notified?

For most companies, putting your employer at that kind of risk does constitute a fireable offense. Just the appearence of not doing anything is justifiable.

That's why Paterno lost his job this way.

Doesn't anybody else wonder how the Unpaid Intern became a coach, maybe he was rewarded for not pushing things too much further.

Or am I just a cynic?

chuckles wrote:

Twin_Cam wrote: Is anyone else just really bummed for the students currently at Penn State, that this is the E36 M3 they have to live through while on campus? The stuff they will remember ten years after they graduate...not all the fun and all the awful studying and that crazy professor they had for English- they will have to remember the time some pervert raped little boys. Great.

Please, Lord, let this be sarcasm.

Yes, let's not consider the children who were raped over the subsequent years due to the cover-up by the staff of this illustrious institution of higher learning.

Even if this was a joke its pretty pathetic.

aussiesmg wrote:

chuckles wrote:

Twin_Cam wrote: Is anyone else just really bummed for the students currently at Penn State, that this is the E36 M3 they have to live through while on campus? The stuff they will remember ten years after they graduate...not all the fun and all the awful studying and that crazy professor they had for English- they will have to remember the time some pervert raped little boys. Great.

Please, Lord, let this be sarcasm.

Yes, let's not consider the children who were raped over the subsequent years due to the cover-up by the staff of this illustrious institution of higher learning. Even if this was a joke its pretty pathetic.

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/

The Onion is great sometimes.

aussiesmg wrote: Doesn't anybody else wonder how the Unpaid Intern became a coach, maybe he was rewarded for not pushing things too much further. Or am I just a cynic?

This was my point, that if paterno should be fired for not following up on what was reported to him, which he reported to his boss, where does that leave the person that actually witnessed the incident and did no more than report it to his boss, and leave it at that.

What about him, having seen what happened and also seeing that person for years after on campus, also did nothing, but still has his job.

And the guy filling in for paterno has been there 33 years, really "cleaning house" there...

In reply to Datsun1500:

Read what I wrote, I didn't say that, the radio guy did, which conveyed to me that he didn't know so much that he let on, because paterno was very clear as to what was reported to him when he spoke to his boss.

Let's not forget who did the actual covering up and who is still on the uni payroll(hint: paternos boss is on paid admin leave)

failboat wrote:

So "Joe Pa" says that he won't retire to leave college football to the Barry Switzers and Jackie Sherrills of the world? First question, do you f u c king Penn State defenders even know this quote?

So "Joe Pa" is a coach with very high moral values.

Just curious, how many child rapes did Switzer and Sherill cover up on their watch? (Obviously none you f uc k ing Penn State defenders.)

Paterno ignored the actions of his pedophile assistant coach. And later, he allowed the coach to have access to the university facilities to rape young boys.

His defense it that he passed it off to higher ups. But it is obvious that he didn't care about the result, because Sandusky was his friend.

I sincerely hope that "Joe Pa" rots in Hell for what he didn't do.

HoustonNW - father of an 11 y.o. boy

Otto Maddox wrote: It wasn't just a janitor hearing something - As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and the showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put his sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy ... whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both [the victim] and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught. The graduate assistant informed Joe Paterno the next day.

assuming for a moment that the graduate assistant was a hero worshiping 21 year old.... maybe MAYBE maybe he handled it as would be expected ( not the way it should , but as expected the only problem with that is he wasn't a hero worshiping 21 yo.... he was 28... been "out in the world" for quite some time

as much blame as there is to Paterno ( remember Truman and his sign ... the buck stops here...?) this guy should have taken action right then and there

can any of you guys imagine walking past that shower and not cold cocking that shiny happy person ?

Strizzo wrote: the point is that paterno had no firsthand knowledge of what went on, only what he was told by then graduate assistant McQueary, and passed it up to his immediate superior. he had no more certainty in the eyes of the law of what went on than you or I do after watching the media coverage. why has McQueary not been charged with failure to report to the police what he saw? if he is somehow not obligated to do anything more than he did then how is paterno so obliged? because he's the head coach? he passed it on to the AD and vice president of the university.

ALL leaders are responsible for their programs/ staff/ departments/ etc.

"No firsthand knowledge" is frankly a pathetic excuse. It's HIS JOB to know.

If he had the slightest suspicion, it's HIS JOB to find out more and see to it that the problem gets corrected FULLY.

The fact that I like him, respect him, appreciate his years of service, or recognize him as a living legend has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

It was HIS program. HIS team. HIS staff. HIS shower.

HIS JOB.

svrex: he's the football coach, he doesn't run the kids program as far as i know, and sandusky wasn't on HIS staff at that time, which is exactly what he told the GJ. "he wasn't on my staff at the time, so i referred it to the AD, as it is HIS job to deal with that.

while you might think that the football coach runs the entire athletic program, that is not actually their job. you're filling in assumptions between what little public fact there is out there.

Probably a good thing I'm not in charge at Penn State. The entire football program would be scrapped for the foreseeable future. I don't see any way that every adult associated with the football program didn't know what was happening and by their inaction condone it. Terminate all of them and try again next year.

Funny thing though. In the state of SC the only person a witness to an act like this must report to, is their superior. They are not required to alert the police. I don't know if Pennsylvania is the same way, but there is a chance that the coach didn't do anything wrong according to the law. Morally? That's another story.

South Carolina is talking about changing the law, rather quickly.

SVreX wrote: It was HIS program. HIS team. HIS staff. HIS shower. HIS JOB.

Actually not one of those things is true.

It was Sandusky's program for kids, there was no team involved - Sandusky was retired, on Emeritus status with the University, and the showers are not exclusive to the football program. They are University property and access is at the discretion of the Athletic department not the individual coaching staff although I am sure that a coach could kick you out if they felt like it.

Not defending anything - just pointing out some incorrect assumptions.

So Sandusky worked with Paterno for over 30 years.....they were "close friends" according to accounts. So when the first evidence happened does anyone really think that Paterno didn't contact Sandusky directly to see what the story was? It seems to me that would be what anyone would do when confronted with an accusation that damning directed at a good friend. The fact that Paterno himself admitted he "should have done more" is evidence that he knew what was going on.

I find it extremely hard to believe you could be friends with someone and work with them everyday, but not know about this sort of behavior. This is especially true as he was taking these boys to games, showering with them, hanging out on school property etc. They knew, they all knew, but were too protective of their precious "Team name" to do anything about it.

I've always had respect for Joe Paterno---not anymore. I could give a damn about his "legacy". The sickening crimes committed against those boys is more important than any silly game, or college reputation. (coming from a life-long football fan and Big Ten allumni)

Penn State's president announced Friday that Asst. Coach Mike McQueary (then graduate assistant) has been placed on administrative leave.

..... bout time

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

SVreX wrote: It was HIS program. HIS team. HIS staff. HIS shower. HIS JOB.

Actually not one of those things is true. It was Sandusky's program for kids, there was no team involved - Sandusky was retired, on Emeritus status with the University, and the showers are not exclusive to the football program. They are University property and access is at the discretion of the Athletic department not the individual coaching staff although I am sure that a coach could kick you out if they felt like it. Not defending anything - just pointing out some incorrect assumptions.

You are correct in noting that I incorrectly assumed he was still on his staff.

Doesn't change the relationship noted by some above.

Cyril Wecht: Centre County DA's Disappearance Linked To PSU Scandal

PITTSBURGH -- Dr. Cyril Wecht, well-known forensic pathologist, said he believes the disappearance of a Centre County District Attorney is somehow linked to the Penn State sex abuse scandal.

"I believe that his disappearance is almost certainly related to this Penn State debacle," Wecht said. Ray Gricar disappeared in 2005 and was declared dead earlier this year.

"You've got his car being found, locked with cellphones inside. The computers found and the hard drive is found there in the river. The body is never found," Wecht said. "Looks to me like it was staged."

Gricar decided not to prosecute Jerry Sandusky in 1998, despite having enough evidence to do so. Wecht said guilt could have drove Gricar to suicide.

"It might have stopped this. I might have kept other children from being victimized. So you do have a plausible suicidal scenario," Wecht said.

However Wecht said the murder motive is strong since more allegations of child abuse against Sandusky increased his chances of going to prison.

"He may have maybe went back to somebody and said, 'I let it go back in '98 but I can't let it go any longer,'" Wecht said.

One man's opinion but a very well accomplished man