Tuna is just stating that an exotic reload can be considered detrimental if a jury is the deciding factor of if something was justified or not.....
Tuna is just stating that an exotic reload can be considered detrimental if a jury is the deciding factor of if something was justified or not.....
Remember: The jury may not necessarily be made up of your peers...
Strizzo wrote:EastCoastMojo wrote: Exactly. In your defense your lawyer will have a much better go of it if you are using commercially available ammo, preferably what the local po-po uses. Also, commercially available ammo can have better reliability rates, although I don't want to argue that point.are you implying that the prosecutor will say you loaded your ammo to be more deadly? because once you're at the point of firing at an intruder or attacker, you're already using deadly force, it makes no difference if you're shooting rubber bullets or incendiary.
No, I am saying that if you load your rounds to be powerful enough to go through and through, the prosecution can claim that you are using your weapon in a manner that is unsafe to those who may be innocently hit by your round after it leaves your intended target. Not all self defense happens in the home, and if you are carrying in public it is a possibility that you may have to fire that gun in a place where there are innocent people behind your attacker. It is a vulnerability you have every control over by not using those rounds in your self defense gun.
Don't give the other guys any ammo in a gun fight, even after it's over.
novaderrik wrote: i think asking a question like this is the kind of thing that gets you put on government watch lists..
That's so cute...I'm surely on a bunch of gubmnt watch lists. I once failed to complete a one way commercial flight. Got off at a layover and rented a car for the rest of the inbound trip due to inclement weather. Was already planning to ride back with SWMBO as she had driven to the destination. Haven't taken a commercial flight since, so I'm not sure what to expect next time I "fly the friendly skies". I've also said bad words like "bomb", "molotov cocktail" and "explosive device" on the phone as well as criticizing our government and specific gubmnt officials.
I don't want to start with a single stage press and then turn around and buy a multi-stage press after a few months. I'm looking at slimming down to 3-4 pistol calibers and 2 rifle calibers. Eventually, I'd like to have a setup for each caliber and be able to swap them into the press without having to reset all of the dimensions each time.
EastCoastMojo wrote:Strizzo wrote:No, I am saying that if you load your rounds to be powerful enough to go through and through, the prosecution can claim that you are using your weapon in a manner that is unsafe to those who may be innocently hit by your round after it leaves your intended target. Not all self defense happens in the home, and if you are carrying in public it is a possibility that you may have to fire that gun in a place where there are innocent people behind your attacker. It is a vulnerability you have every control over by not using those rounds in your self defense gun. Don't give the other guys any ammo in a gun fight, even after it's over.EastCoastMojo wrote: Exactly. In your defense your lawyer will have a much better go of it if you are using commercially available ammo, preferably what the local po-po uses. Also, commercially available ammo can have better reliability rates, although I don't want to argue that point.are you implying that the prosecutor will say you loaded your ammo to be more deadly? because once you're at the point of firing at an intruder or attacker, you're already using deadly force, it makes no difference if you're shooting rubber bullets or incendiary.
That would fall under "know your target and what is beyond it" wouldn't it? I guess we shouldn't use hollow points either, since NATO says theyre too deadly. You can buy +p+ ammo off the shelf anyways, so it's not like you can't get a "super power" round without loading your own.
In reply to Secretariata:
Good plan- I have a single stage press that does a great job holding down my bench. I use it to de-prime and size big caliber brass from time to time, but that is it.
Dillon is the only manufacturer you need to look at. I hear Hornady makes some good progressive presses, but I can guarantee you wont be disappointed with Dillon. The 550 and 650 we've been discussing can do exactly what you ask- no messing around with reseting things between caliber changes. I bought both my presses second hand, and I can still call them up if I have any issues, and they'll insist on sending me free parts even after I tell them I bought second hand. They are what customer service should be.
Mezzanine wrote: In reply to Secretariata: Good plan- I have a single stage press that does a great job holding down my bench. I use it to de-prime and size big caliber brass from time to time, but that is it. Dillon is the *only* manufacturer you need to look at. I hear Hornady makes some good progressive presses, but I can guarantee you wont be disappointed with Dillon. The 550 and 650 we've been discussing can do exactly what you ask- no messing around with reseting things between caliber changes. I bought both my presses second hand, and I can still call them up if I have any issues, and they'll insist on sending me free parts even after I tell them I bought second hand. They are what customer service should be.
This. I've heard of many people that were both happy and disappointed with hornady or rcbs presses, but I don't think I've seen anyone say anything bad about dillon, other than they should have spent the money and cried once.
Strizzo wrote:EastCoastMojo wrote:That would fall under "know your target and what is beyond it" wouldn't it? I guess we shouldn't use hollow points either, since NATO says theyre too deadly. You can buy +p+ ammo off the shelf anyways, so it's not like you can't get a "super power" round without loading your own.Strizzo wrote:No, I am saying that if you load your rounds to be powerful enough to go through and through, the prosecution can claim that you are using your weapon in a manner that is unsafe to those who may be innocently hit by your round after it leaves your intended target. Not all self defense happens in the home, and if you are carrying in public it is a possibility that you may have to fire that gun in a place where there are innocent people behind your attacker. It is a vulnerability you have every control over by not using those rounds in your self defense gun. Don't give the other guys any ammo in a gun fight, even after it's over.EastCoastMojo wrote: Exactly. In your defense your lawyer will have a much better go of it if you are using commercially available ammo, preferably what the local po-po uses. Also, commercially available ammo can have better reliability rates, although I don't want to argue that point.are you implying that the prosecutor will say you loaded your ammo to be more deadly? because once you're at the point of firing at an intruder or attacker, you're already using deadly force, it makes no difference if you're shooting rubber bullets or incendiary.
True, you can buy more powerful ammo off the shelf, but you are also giving the lawyers something to use against you if you use it in your carry gun. Loading your own does the same.
Dude, you do what you gotta do. Makes no difference to me.
Dragging this thread back to life.
Anybody got a recommendation on where to get a good price on a Dillon xl650 progressive press? My google-fu seems to be lacking. Only ones I can find are full price.
Secretariata wrote: Dragging this thread back to life. Anybody got a recommendation on where to get a good price on a Dillon xl650 progressive press? My google-fu seems to be lacking. Only ones I can find are full price.
Where are you located?
yamaha wrote: Where are you located?
Central part of SC. Near Columbia.
You can order direct from Dillon precision, otherwise, there would probably be a dealer at a local gun show.
Shipping wouldn't be bad ordering directly from Dillon.
Dillon has an 8 week+ backlog right now. Going to the source might be your best bet because unless Dillon has a sale almost no one is offering any deals even remotely related to firearms since they can't keep anything in stock.
You can probably get the dies separate though. I think Dillon sells Redding dies which are really good dies but 2x to 3x more expensive than a set of carbide Lymans or RCBS from Brownells or Midway. Just make sure the thread is the same.
if you don't get the Dillon 550 or 650 (I have two Square Deal B's which I do not recommend because they're pistol calibers only and they use unique dies) then I'd recommend the Hornady Lock & Load AP Progressive. I like the primer feed a bunch better than the Pro2000 RCBS and the Hornady is a bit cheaper.
I think it would be easier to get plutonium these days than powder and primers. It's a lousy time to buy. See if you can find someone who will let you borrow their press so you can learn it or if they'll reload for you (if you trust them and you can actually lay your hands on components).
Re: self defense ammo--shoot factory loads. Possibly the same stuff your local PD shoots. Period.
Secretariata wrote: Dragging this thread back to life. Anybody got a recommendation on where to get a good price on a Dillon xl650 progressive press? My google-fu seems to be lacking. Only ones I can find are full price.
I ordered my 65o two months ago, got the press a month ago and the dies two weeks ago. Just prior to that I sold my ragged out 550 for nigh-on retail price.
My point here is it's worth the extra time, and barely any extra money, to buy new.
jg
stroker wrote: I think it would be easier to get plutonium these days than powder and primers.
Powder sn't bad. Powdervalley always has something in stock that's useable. You may have to go with a high-end powder like VV, but that's what I use anyway.
Primers are like Springsteen tickets, though. If you see some, but them. Even if they aren't what you use, because someone else who needs them probably has what you need and will trade.
Speaking of which, I just grabbed 8000 small rifle primers today. I had planed to use small pistol magnum primers, but my pistols prefer the small rifle. Anyone has some trade bait and wants 5k small pistol magnum primers, lemme know. Obviously Small rifle primers work well, as does cash and Miatas.
jg
Oh, and bullets? fuhgeddaboudit. Brass can be ordered. Powder can be had. Primers can be found with some effort. But bullets have just dried up and blown away, unless you use moly-coated (which are fine in my .40 Limited gun). The open gun demands a full jacket, lest the comp get filled with lead. And those things are gone, baby, gone...
jg
yamaha wrote: You can order direct from Dillon precision, otherwise, there would probably be a dealer at a local gun show. Shipping wouldn't be bad ordering directly from Dillon.
I was wondering about their dealer network. It was hard for me to tell if they have one or if you gotta buy direct. I'm probably just gonna order direct.
stroker wrote: See if you can find someone who will let you borrow their press so you can learn it or if they'll reload for you (if you trust them and you can actually lay your hands on components).
My interest isn't primarily motivated by the current availability issue. Looking more at long term cost benefits as the volume of ammo I shoot will probably be increasing & I'm planning to reduce the various calibers in my collection down to 4-5. I already have a decent stockpile of brass in the calibers I plan to reload.
JG Pasterjak wrote: I ordered my 65o two months ago, got the press a month ago and the dies two weeks ago. Just prior to that I sold my ragged out 550 for nigh-on retail price. My point here is it's worth the extra time, and barely any extra money, to buy new. jg
Yeah, I was figuring it would be worthwhile to start with new equipment. At least then any problems are likely to be operator error rather than equipment failures.
Figure I may as well start the process and spread the initial costs over a few months.
Secretariata wrote:yamaha wrote: Where are you located?Central part of SC. Near Columbia.
Palmetto State Armory (or something like that)?
JG,
How does the 650 compare to the 550? What are the advantages? Worth the extra money? Real world RPM of the 650/550?
Dr. Hess wrote: JG, How does the 650 compare to the 550? What are the advantages? Worth the extra money? Real world RPM of the 650/550?
The 650 is auto indexing whereas the 550 has to be advanced manually between each stoke of the press. The 650 also has a brass feeder, and the ability to hook up a powered automatic brass feeder to its feed tube.
So where the sequence on the 550 is: Advance wheel, put brass in the right side, put a bullet on the left side, pull handle, repeat. The sequence on the 650 is: put bullet on left side, pull handle, repeat.
With a case feeder you could easily exceed 1000 rounds pre hour on the 650. The only slowdown would be refilling the primer tube, and how good your attention span is. I can load enough for a match (150-200) in less than half an hour complete with manually filling the brass feeder (holds about 15 pieces) an the primer tube, and watching tv, and seeing shiny objects.
jg
spitfirebill wrote:Secretariata wrote:Palmetto State Armory (or something like that)?yamaha wrote: Where are you located?Central part of SC. Near Columbia.
Doesn't carry Dillon Precision in the location near me.
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