Going to the races at Reno is on my motorsports "bucket-list"...and I'll be more than a little disappointed if someone marks it off before I get the chance to go.
Going to the races at Reno is on my motorsports "bucket-list"...and I'll be more than a little disappointed if someone marks it off before I get the chance to go.
Some more info, a pretty good overall analysis of the situation:
http://airpigz.com/blog/2011/9/20/the-galloping-ghost-tragedy-life-risk-and-the-future.html
His idea of a 450mph limited race seems to be asking for a mid-air though. The unlimited aspect of the racing is what makes it so interesting, kind of like the early CanAm racing but without the huge corporate money input.
Small update:
Here is a very well done video of that final race which happens to isolate on The Galloping Ghost on the 3rd lap fully showing the flight leading up to the final barrel roll.
If you want to skip to that lap go to around 7:20.
You can see from this video that there very possibly could be a lot more going on then just the loss of the elevator trim tab, that's some pretty crazy maneuvering for that speed.
You can also see at the end of the video some good shots of the plane and some of the amazing work that obviously went into it.
Javelin wrote: Hehehehee.... Having fun with the sleazeball's contact form... Jerkoff!
Can I enlist him to sue anybody who tries to stop air racing?
I have recieved an e mail from a fellow pilot. There were some big forces at work on this airplane.
Aviators,
I talked with the president of the jet class today who is privy to the telemetry from the Galloping Ghost. here are some numbers.
Airspeed around pylon 7 495 mph.
When the trim tab broke off the aircraft pitched up pulling 21 G's and airspeed reduced to 375. ( tailwheel popped out, pilot slumped below view).
Throttle stayed wide open at 105 " manifold pressure until impact.
Airspeed at impact was 425.
Looks like pilot went to sleep in the pull and was out for the duration.
The fire was suppressed by a special foam that was in the tanks.
11 fatalities including the pilot.
A very sad day for air racing and those who were/ are injured/ traumatized.
I have recieved more information on the crash airplane. This was e-mailed to me yesterday.
This write-up, by a fellow race pilot, provides a logical explanation as to why the elevator in the Galloping Ghost failed.
Make a lot of sense to me. The earlier reports left the question as to why the elevator failed.
A center of gravity (CD) too far aft (rearward) and multiple encounters with air turbulence from the other racing planes would certainly set the stage for the elevator failure (overstressed).
Al
Bobby Graham says... Good News for the future of air racing. Our new crew member, Matt Jackson, is not only a race pilot, aircraft business owner and aircraft owner (he also takes care of Tom Cruises P-51) but he is also the VP of the Unlimited Racing Class and head of the Safety Committee. We had a long talk about the Reno crash on the way to Mojave today. Matt believes the cause of the crash was due to The Galloping Ghost having a CG too close to the aft limit which resulted in pitch instability. There are instructions on the P-51 regarding no combat missions with the aft fuel tank full resulting in an aft CG problem. Instructions specify to empty the aft fuel tank first in flight. During qualifying Matt watched Galloping Ghost from inside the cockpit of Furias and could not believe how much trouble Leeward was having in keeping the Ghost in a stable pattern around the course. Since Leeward lives in Florida and the Galloping Ghost was modified for racing in Calif., when Leeward picked up the Ghost for the Reno races at the last minute, a complete flight test program had not been done based on available information. There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to 'dig in' resulting in a 10+ G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out. (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH elevator trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident. Since the Ghost was racing at 480 mph with full right rudder and the stick full right, this is where everything stayed when Leeward blacked out. Cockpit camera film that was salvaged from the wreck shows Leeward slumped over to the right in the cockpit. As a result, the Ghost climbed up and to the right, rolled over on her back and then headed for the box seats. Most in the box seats never saw it coming because it came in from behind them. Matt has had long conversations with the NTSB who call the accident a 'fluke'. They are not going to recommend canceling future races. He has also talked to the insurance companies covering the races for Reno and they also say they are not going to cancel their coverage of future races. Now we wait for the FAA to make a decision. Ironically, Matt bought box seats tickets for his good friends who stayed with him for a few days before the races. They were the husband and wife who were killed. -- Thank You for choosing Bobby's Aero Services 1641 Sessums Dr . Redlands , Ca 92374 (909)534-7675
Thanks for the info.
After seeing a video of the plane going around the last pylon and the start of the accident sequence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbkxKJCM4x8
I have would have to agree that it looked a lot more like a total loss of control then an elevator tab failure (the plane twisted and pitched very violently.) It does look a lot like the tail has had a structural failure. 21g's seems like a bit much for just a trim tab (the Hanna incident was only around 10). I have also read some information that the right elevator trim tab was fixed on that plane, not sure the impact of that, but it might actually lessen the effect of losing the other one (depending on how it was set).
I am not sure I agree with the "full right stick, full right rudder" statement though. With the pilot unconscious and slumped over, I can see the body pushing (aided by the g's) the stick to the right at bit, but the rudder should just center, the g's shouldn't push his leg forward.
The foam in the gas tank probably explains all the greenish foam that can be seen in the impact zone.
One thing that can be said though, that plane was fast, and it didn't even have an all out race engine in it, it was bit less hopped up then some of the other race engines. I still say it was one of the nicest looking race planes yet built.
Not really looking good for highly modified / custom unlimited race planes though. The list of ones that I can think of that have crashed (not all fatalities):
Ms Ashley, Pond Racer, Tsunami, now Galloping Ghost (even the Hughes H1 replica and the GeeBee replica, not unlimited of course). Makes me glad they decided not to race Mr. Awesome (I hear it was rather unstable):
I have been following this thread from the beginning.
Do the stresses identified in your last post explain the deformation of the skin near the tail? (Pictures on Page 1). It would seem to support that the tail was seeing huge forces.
That's kind of what I was thinking. I have seen someone note that that sort of deformation is normal under racing conditions, but I kind of doubt it. The whole idea of a monocoque fuselage design is that the shell (skin) of the plane caries some of the load. If the skin is deforming, then the structure is deforming. Maybe someone who knows a bit more about aircraft structures can comment.
There was a picture a few years ago of one of the racing Yaks in a corner that showed the top wing skin rippling similar to that. When the owner was shown the picture he proceeded to take the wing apart and strengthen it for the next years races.
In reply to NGTD:
You are correct
A quick update to the second observation post that was recently posted, apparently it is fake. I am not terribly surprised, as noted I was a bit suspicious of the observations. I was going to note that I did not think the plane had not been flight tested, but I was not sure. The plane was very rushed for LAST years race, but did not make it, so they had a full year to test and work on the plane (but I cannot say extensive flight testing is done, but I suspect it was)
The NTSB note is of course most unfortunate, but it seems very reasonable that they are very quite about such things until official.
http://jeffwise.net/2011/10/10/what-didnt-cause-the-reno-air-race-crash/
Lately there’s been an email circulating that purports to be from someone on the Wildfire Air Racing team who had a long talk with race pilot Matt Jackson about Jimmy Leeward’s crash last month at the Reno Air Races. The email says that Jackson was racing at the time in his own Unlimited-category plane and witnessed firsthand the trouble that Jimmy Leeward was having as he rounded the course. According to the email,
There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to ‘dig in’ resulting in a 10+ G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out. (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH aileron trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident.
This is conclusion is diametrically opposed to the conclusion that I (and many others) reached, based on the information available—namely, that the failure of the trim tab caused the steep climb, not vice versa. As the email was forwarded to me by a trusted and experienced member of the aircraft community, I was surprised and concerned by its assertions.
I was also a bit skeptical. There are many things in the email which don’t make much sense; turbulence doesn’t come in “mountains,” and I’ve never before heard of any such phenomenon as a tail “digging in.”
I was even more dubious about this:
Matt has had long conversations with the NTSB who call the accident a ‘fluke’. They are not going to recommend canceling future races. He has also talked to the insurance companies covering the races for Reno and they also say they are not going to cancel their coverage of future races. Now we wait for the FAA to make a decision.
The NTSB is highly secretive about their ongoing investigations, which are very serious matters with life-and-death consequences. They are a long way off from reaching a conclusion, and will not issue their report until next year. Only then will the FAA be in a position to change its rules.
Something smelled fishy. So I put a call in to Matt Jackson. Sure enough, Jackson knew exactly what I was talking about and immediately wanted to make clear that he did not write the email. “It’s all BS,” he said. “There’s a lot of misinformation about what actually happened. It’s not a correct synopsis of what went on.”
For one thing, though he was indeed enrolled in the Unlimited air race along with Jimmy Leeward, he sat out that particular heat due to mechanical difficulties, so he could not have witnessed Leeward’s difficulties from the air.
Jackson says that he tried to track down who wrote the email, so far without success.
“I’d love to know who it is,” he says. “I’m sure that was written either by someone either that has met me or has spoken to me at some point in time, because I meet thousands of people, going to the air race every year, being in the position I’m in. I have to deal with a lot of people that I meet once and might not ever talk to again in my lifetime, and I’ve been doing this a long time. It’s an unfortunate thing. People want to feel important. The power of the internet is that you can make a statement of fact and post it but not have any ramifications because you’re not identified.”
The point he emphasized repeatedly during our conversation was that, above and beyond the specific inaccuracies in the email, it describes him blabbing about an ongoing investigation. “For me to even comment or even voice my opinion about what went on would not be appropriate,” he says. “I don’t endorse or support any comments that have been posted about what I’ve said or haven’t said.”
Sorry about the bad information. I usually check the validity of e-mail, but I trusted my source.
A quick update... and so it begins:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/01/2740699/apnewsbreak-lawsuit-filed-in-reno.html
Speaking for Salerno's family, Buzbee said in a telephone interview that no amount of money could fix the "huge gaping hole ripped from their lives."
25 million will apparently make them feel better though (at least the lawyer), because I really don't think 25 million in anyway represents what a 50 year old dispatcher for Continental Airlines would be expected to make during the rest of his life (to cover his family).
I wonder who they would be suing for 25 million if he was killed in a FAR more likely car crash. But hey, everyone knows cars are dangerous right? Who could possibly conceive that being 100 feet from a group of planes going 500 mph could pose any danger at all.
The attorney said he wanted to hold "two groups of wrongdoers" accountable: "Those who pushed the limits of physics on the plane, being risk takers and reckless without regard for the people who might be watching them, and those who promoted and profited from hosting the show."
As someone who works in aviation this seriously irritates me. Does this lawyer need a dictionary to define the word experimental to him? Would he like someone to explain why the FAA requires the time on homebuilt experimental aircraft time to be flown off without passengers within a restricted limit of a designated airport?
Sorry I know this isn't an aviation board but seriously there were a number of things that went wrong here but air racing like any racing is inherently dangerous. Do I feel bad for the people and their familys who lost a loved one in this accident? Yes. Observing these events also carry an inherent danger because of the unpredictability. Aviation in general carries a significant risk compared to other hobbies because the side of the road is quite a bit farther away than in a car. There is a reason why A&P's and IA's make every attempt possible to get things correct the first time because when something goes wrong it will go seriously wrong.
A settlement is probably in order but the lawyer is seeking to vilify an entire industry because it doesn't fit into the bubble wrapped definition of fun just for a payday (and a large one at that) for him.
And y'all wonder why I say I can't stand attorneys. Once again here's one who is perfectly willing to destroy a sport only so he can have a good payoff. I won't bore you again with the story of the ones who shut down a dirt poker run in my state.
The0retical wrote: Sorry I know this isn't an aviation board but seriously there were a number of things that went wrong here but air racing like any racing is inherently dangerous. Do I feel bad for the people and their familys who lost a loved one in this accident? Yes. Observing these events also carry an inherent danger because of the unpredictability. Aviation in general carries a significant risk compared to other hobbies because the side of the road is quite a bit farther away than in a car. There is a reason why A&P's and IA's make every attempt possible to get things correct the first time because when something goes wrong it will go seriously wrong.
Aviation board or not, its directly relevant to the conversation. Any race event, the danger should be presumed regardless of safety preparedness on behalf of event staff.
Curmudgeon wrote: And y'all wonder why I say I can't stand attorneys. Once again here's one who is perfectly willing to destroy a sport only so he can have a good payoff. I won't bore you again with the story of the ones who shut down a dirt poker run in my state.
I am with you in lawyer hating category.
I am actually surprised that it took this long . . . .
A plane is photographed without a visible pilot, relatively near to Area 51, and the plane is a P-51. How long until the conspiracy theorists and nut jobs get hold of this one?
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