Restaurant questions

I live in New York City right now and I have been trying to figure out how to make something of myself so that I don't end up being just some schmuck with a hundred-thousand-dollar education that I have to pay for until I die (if I pay it off before then, I can invite my grandkids to my payoff party).

If you don't get to Wall Street, you have to start something of your own. I didn't make it to Wall Street. Instead, I'd like to open a restaurant. I have an idea for a format, types of food, and even some clever unique menu items (and names for everything). I don't want to spill too much now, but I'm looking at a format similar to, let's say, Five Guys Burgers and Fries. You see the grill right behind the counter, the food is fresh, high-quality, and prepared quickly. It's not really fast food because it isn't ready before you get there, but you can get in and out in a half-hour easily.

As of now, I don't have a berkeleying dime to my name. I will be looking at moving into the cheapest apartment I can find when my lease is up here and then I can start to save a little money. I don't have any credit cards or anything now and I'd like to avoid them as much as possible. My credit, albeit weak, is flawless (the only credit I currently have is my motorcycle and my student loans). Hey, I'm only 24--how much credit could I have?

Where do I get money for this? Bank loans? Better Business Bureau? Rich uncle? Rob a bank? I'm smart, I have a Bachelors in Finance from a very good school, and I'm driven--I'm just stuck in a rut with a crappy job at a company that has no promise for expansion.

Has anyone here had any experience with owning or running a restaurant? How much does it cost? I know that most businesses don't make money for a long time and that more than 33% of restaurants fail in their first year. But since I have almost nothing, I have nothing to lose (I don't even own my bedroom furniture lol--it's my roommate's extra stuff).

By the way, this restaurant is something that I can copy from the first location to anywhere in the United States. The name may even appeal more to places outside of New York than in New York itself. Hey, anything with "New York" in the name always invokes curiosity in folks from outside the city.

Have you ever worked in a restaurant? Would seriously suggest getting some experience so you can; a) know what you're doing b) meet some possible investors.

Restaurant business stinks. I do like your concept though. If you don't have prior restaurant experience I suggest working in one a while before you start your own.

Any business idea should start with a solid business plan. You'll need one for financing if you don't have the money to start it up yourself. In this economy it will be very difficult for someone with limited experience, limited credit to get the financing needed.

Admirable goal, but I suggest working in the industry a little while before you start something up. <---has worked in the Restaurant/hospitality industry for 13 years.

My cousin had been in a lot of businesses... Trader, real estate, harley salesman... He then opened a restaurant, its doing really well, and he's wanted out since about day 8.

I'd definitely start working someplace to see if you like it or not.

Our son graduated from the CIA and is now working at high end fancy, schmancy restaurtants but is now also looking into doing the burger thang. He says there is more money made at the gourmet burger houses than anything else.

When he and his sister first decided they wanted to be chefs we made them work at a couple of restaurants before going to school. He liked it, she didn't. So I'll second the get a job in a restaurant first and see the ins and outs. There are a lot of ins and outs that can make a huge difference between making it and going bust.

Get experience first, all the way from a dishwasher to line cook to manager.

Spend a lot of time here: http://www.sba.gov/ to get funding ideas.

Nothing will teach better than experience though. Degrees will help when making a business plan, but experience helps when you need to know how long/far a box of tomatoes will last.

Detroit style Coney Island. Cheap supplies and lower overhead than fancier places. With a 2.99 breakfast special and a 3.99 lunch special, you'll have regulars in no time. No need for a dinner menu, close at 3 and have plenty of time for GRM stuff after work.

You ain't gettin no grant from obama. You have to be failed auto exec or wall street looser to get free money. Trust me, I"ve been told my more than one government official that there are no grants (if you are a white male at least). Like others have said, work every position you can at more than one place to know if you really like it. After you've poured everything into it and opened the doors is not the time to realize you don't like it. Then you are married to it for years and years.

I can't get a job working in a restaurant. I already have a job that pays more than any job I can get in a restaurant and I couldn't pay my student loans and such with the pay I would get from a restaurant. Unless I worked at one on the weekends...

I work with a fellow now who used to own a restaurant. I want to consult with him and maybe go into business with him since he hates working where we do now. My only concern is--if he liked the restaurant business so much (he wants to open a new one) why the hell is he working where I work?

Restaraunt work bites. I did it in high school, went into the Service, cooked there and cooked when I got out. You'll notice I don't do it any more.

My son did it through high school, college and when he dropped out of the Masters Program his employer suggested he enter their management program.

http://www.hillstone.com/

He went to Napa Valley for 4 months and then to Atlanta for a final assignment. 23 years old and making $75,000 a year. Drawbacks? Yeah, it's big company and today could be the day you get fired for no reason. Huge personnel turn over! By the way, you're scheduled for 70 hour weeks and we can call you any time to drop what you're doing to run some errands for us.

He left, now in NYC at The Palm. Great place, good people, he likes it, they like him. More drawbacks but a tolerable trade off.

http://www.thepalm.com/sitemain.cfm?site_id=6

I would suggest looking around at food establishments in NYC, talk to the owners, talk to guests, talk to suppliers. Ooooo suppliers. There's a concern. I got it, you want it? Cost ya. Can't pay, no problem, we can work this out (or shut you down). Wait, that was out loud?

Anything with the name "New York" in the name may sell in Minnesota, in NYC it means you're selling Street Meat from a cart.

Define your audience. Who's gonna buy what you offer? Is there anyone that offers anything similar to what you have? Any establishment takes three years to sort out; year one is your relatives checking you out, year two are locals and walk-ins checking it out, year three is your make/break. Year four? Call me.

I don't mean to be so negative, but buying a house is a big deal for most, this is bigger. If you're in the City go to the Palm, ask for Ian. He can give you some unvarnished truths.

Good Luck.

Dan

Edit:

I noticed you're in Long Island. My son's fiance is from Port Jeff. Wander around L.I. and see what's there, what's not there. Does your specialty fit?

The restaurant business is very competitive and requires some serious dedication. I'm no restaurateur but to do it correctly you have to wake up early to procure ingredients and go to bed late to make sure everything is cleaned to inspection worthiness. It is like a lifestyle choice and you are required to be there 7 days a week. If you see a niche you have to be willing to fill it so no closing at 3pm on fridays and other forms of entrepreneurial suicide that many businesses commit. I constantly see businesses killing themselves by either not staying open or having bad customer service. As the owner you'd be required to do the books, get the stuff together, clean the floors etc. If you see an dirty table you don't sit there looking stupid but go and clean the thing off. If your employees see your dedication they will emulate your dedication.

Another issue is keeping the books so you don't get burned by fraud. If you have an accountant be damned sure to go over the books and monitor revenue streams, you need to keep the overhead down while maximizing profit.

Good luck, this is not a cavalier decision so you really have to see if you are willing to take the plunge. All of your money/time/effort will go into the business so you don't have to worry about free time or dicking with cars, that is extraneous to the goal to growing a business.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Detroit style Coney Island. Cheap supplies and lower overhead than fancier places. With a 2.99 breakfast special and a 3.99 lunch special, you'll have regulars in no time. No need for a dinner menu, close at 3 and have plenty of time for GRM stuff after work.

Grey's Papaya and their imitators has that gig on lockdown.

Yeah, this looks like it will be a lot of work. But I am not afraid to work crazy hours (I already do) or do any job that might need to be done. I work in accounting now, so keeping the ledgers straight shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to talk to my friend tomorrow. I'll see what he has to say about it.

There's a small burger joint that opened up near my place a couple years ago that has done well for themselves.

http://flaminggrillcafe.info/Home_Page.html

They seem to have been quite successful. I don't know all the details, but I've been going there since their first month in business and I can tell you what I've seen.

To start, the owner and his wife (who are now divorced) both came from restaurant management background (I think they managed an Elephant Grill). They started off open 7 days a week for quite a while, and served breakfast, lunch, and dinner everyday except Sunday (when they didn't serve breakfast). Most of the people working there are family.

They have since cut back to Monday-Saturday and don't do breakfast anymore, but that was after they'd spent at least a year establishing their reputation.

They also differentiate themselves by specializing in "unique meats" that you can't find anywhere else, such as Buffalo, Ostrich, Elk, Kangaroo, and gator. Excellent happy hour deals (really aggressive at first, and scaled back as they got better known) and generally excellent food and personal service.

I don't know anything about the restaurant business, but do know working for myself, and being in a partnership.

Keep in mind, going into business with a partner is a lot like getting married. I have been in a partnership for about 5 years now, and spend as much time with my partner as I do my wife. Make damn sure you get along with him even when you're pissed off at him(cause you will be at times). Have an exit strategy just in case things don't work out. Busting up a partnership is like a divorce, and the business is your kids.

Other than that, do it with cash if at all possible. Start smaller if you have to and work your way up to your dream. Overhead is going to be bad enough without having to make that finance payment at the end of the month. There have been several months over the last several years where having to make a payment would have meant not drawing a paycheck.

One last thing. Having employees SUCKS, and you are going to have a bunch of them. Just thought I would let you know in advance. We had to fire one last Tuesday. It SUCKS.

I say go for it. It is A LOT of work, but worth it.

Heart Attack Grill, Chandler, AZ

Wiki entry on Heart Attack Grill

Restaurants that open as just restaurants fail at ten times the rate of ones that open as brewpubs. Just something to think about.

Although, a Five Guys-type menu isn't really suited to craft beer.

If you think you work crazy hours now, you have no idea, as well as the hoursof operation add 2 hours before and 3 hours after just cleaning, preparing and buying food, wine etc. Then you have the accounting, bills, scheduling, menus, etc to sort out, not being glib but if you aren't working 20 hours a day, you are not even close.

Then there is the stress, staff calling off sick at the last minute (and you know they are not), food prep going wrong, freezer etc breakdowns, making the payroll, paying the insurance, food expiry dates, cleaning the cutlery/crockery correctly, and so on

That said, and accepting all the stress, I would never go back to a job again, self employment rules.

If any of the Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares episodes are even close to what owning a restaurant is like, then I want no part of it. That looks like pure torture... even on the good days...

I know a guy with a culinary degree from RIT... and is an excellent cook... graduated... worked as a chef for a couple of years... then he opened up a bike shop and now runs that as well as a builds high end bike frames...

Twin_Cam wrote: Restaurants that open as just restaurants fail at ten times the rate of ones that open as brewpubs. Just something to think about. Although, a Five Guys-type menu isn't really suited to craft beer.

There are foods that aren't suited to craft beer?

I think the Restaurant business is like show business or sports. It can make you a millionaire, sure, but there are a lot of people trying to get there too.

Josh wrote:

Twin_Cam wrote: Restaurants that open as just restaurants fail at ten times the rate of ones that open as brewpubs. Just something to think about. Although, a Five Guys-type menu isn't really suited to craft beer.

There are foods that aren't suited to craft beer?

That's one of the best things about the nearby burger joint that I mentioned. They have one of the best selections of beer around. Better than most bars. They typically have 3-5 taps dedicated to Stone and/or Lagunitas Brews, as well as Big Daddy IPA (my now favorite IPA), and three from a semi-local brewery. For a while they had an IPA brewed especially for them from the local microbrew down the street. As good as anything out there, and $2 pints during happy hours.

Their beer selection has been a real draw. When I'm in the mood to go out and have a pint with friends, they are one of the first places I think of.

Top shelf beer is a great way to differentiate yourself from the competition.

Salanis wrote: Top shelf beer is a great way to differentiate yourself from the competition.

Damn straight. When I think about the places that have opened up around here within the last couple years that are doing the best business, they are all brewpubs or have a serious selection of beers on tap. Meanwhile several of the generic chain type places are very slow or have closed.

pinchvalve wrote: I think the Restaurant business is like show business or sports. It can make you a millionaire, sure, but there are a lot of people trying to get there too.

Personally, I think it helps to have a niche and exploit the hell out of it. Especially around here in NYC.

A few examples

Peanut Butter and Co. - PB&J

Jive Turkey - Fried Turkey

The Chip Shop - Fish and Chips. They will also fry just about everything