...and he never went pink.
...and he never went pink.
Fitting that he passed on humpday
A few years ago my brother and I were going through some of his dads old junk when we found his Playboy Club membership card. Back in the mid 60's the Clubs were the epitome of class and style. My stepfather was a fairly boring guy who would never be accused of cutting edge or trendy, but he used to go fairly regularly and cherished the memories. He said "young ladies were impressed to be taken there and they served the best chicken Kiev on the west coast".
I'm afraid there is a pull toward public prudishness in our society, it'd be good if folks could remember to relax a bit.
RIP Hef
My grandfather was a member, my Grandmother still has all sorts of little playboy branded trinkets he picked up over the years he visited.
For all the prudes out there, a bunch of you have your pants on fire:
I'm in the "nudity isn't porn" camp. And Playboy featured nudity. The same kind you can see on billboards in less uptight countries.
But I'm also 46 and never smoked pot, yet thinks it's fine and should be legal.
RIP creepy Hugh. It'll be a shame when your mansion gets demolished next month.
I remember the paper key my dad had on the pegboard of his workbench in the basement. ...I also remember the magazines in the same basement 
And as mentioned, he championed racial equality and gay rights long before it was the cool thing to do. (And if it's legit, he started quite the multimillion dollar empire by borrowing $8k)
OHSCrifle said:RIP creepy Hugh. It'll be a shame when your mansion gets demolished next month.
Except a neighbor bought it a year ago and let him live there until his death.
I dare anyone to walk through the mansion with a blacklight....
OHSCrifle said:I'm in the "nudity isn't porn" camp. And Playboy featured nudity. The same kind you can see on billboards in less uptight countries.
But I'm also 46 and never smoked pot, yet thinks it's fine and should be legal.
Right there with you. If Nudity is porn, there is a lot of it in all the major museums of the world, including the Vatican.
It's interesting how his passing has sparked interesting conversations all over the place. That alone is a pretty good legacy.
I'm not going to pass judgement on whether it was pornography or not - I suspect it all depends on the filter of your era, and I think it was definitely on the classy side of the spectrum - but you had to admit the guy thought bigger than just publishing pictures of naked ladies.
I was never a big reader of his magazines, but in comparing them to their competition (hustler and the like) the photography of the Nudes in Playboy was far and away better in both content and presentation.
Playboy helped society start talking openly about sex.
Don't forget, the era in which Hef started publishing was the same one where Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds and couldn't say "pregnant" on television.
Hef had some real and positive accomplishments. He helped launch the career of many famous writers, including Stephen King. But he was a man who didn't respect others' sexual freedom enough.
Yeah, I know, that's probably the last thing you'd expect me to accuse him of. But like most freedoms, that's an area where one needs to set limits on one's own freedom to ensure others can enjoy theirs. We can debate where exactly that line needs to be set, but some are pretty obvious. "Do not rape" is a necessary rule to allow others to be free not to be raped. Hugh crossed another line: He built himself a harem, and encouraged the idea that it was a good thing for men who are rich and powerful enough to do the same.
Polygamy - whether official or just de facto in the case of Hef - is something that can cause a lot of trouble if allowed to spread. You can still have a society function if the top 1% controls 50% of the wealth, if the other 50% is enough for the rest of the population. But you can't have a society function very well if the richest 25% of the men have 50% of the women. At least a quarter of the male population there are screwed, or more accurately, can't get screwed. Unless you have a population where a lot of the men had killed each other off, leaving more women than men (which could very well happen if a quarter of the male population can't find a mate)
And harems aren't exactly a good way to meet women's sexual needs either. A man might be able to keep two wives somewhat satisfied. But a man with a couple dozen wives, well, there's some challenges I doubt any man out there would be able to rise to the occasion. Especially not some tycoon in his '70s who has the money to afford such a collection. Ever read some of the notes on harem life in the Kama Sutra?
Sexual freedom requires a balance. And Hef was a lot of things, but he wasn't balanced.
Q:What do you think about pornography?
A: I don't know, I don't even own a pornograph.
-ALF
I did a giggle snort when I read Playboy "shot down any misogynistic attitudes".
^^^ It seems ironic, until you read the magazine. The Playboy Advisor frequently published letters from men with degrading attitudes towards women---- which the editor would always slap down. Playboy's editors never used misogyny--- instead they supported fairness and women's rights. It's a far cry from the horrid tripe you read in Maxxim, or current publications. Playboy was different--- it was well written, not smutty, and intelligent.
Yes, they had naked ladies in alluring poses......but is that degrading? I never though so.
In reply to Joe Gearin :
OK, I just checked on the definition of misogyny. You are correct sir by most of the definition. I totally wasted a giggle snort.
Trans_Maro said:Playboy helped society start talking openly about sex.
Don't forget, the era in which Hef started publishing was the same one where Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds and couldn't say "pregnant" on television.
and a women couldn't show her bellybutton on TV
I'm still trying to figure out how forcing women to wear bunny tails is an empowering experience.
I wrote a post last night, but deleted it. Here's a few good articles that offer the opposing perspective to him being a hero for the emancipation of women:
LA Times- Hef preached liberation, but never stopped exploiting women
The Guardian: Hef's darker side
Gloria Steinem's "A Bunny's Tale"
A Bunny's Tale- Part 1 (Actual reprint)
I'm not trying to dis him, but there is a lot more going on than him being the fearless publishing hero that liberated women of all colors. It's complicated.
I have not “liked” and “disliked” so many comments in one thread before. I wish I realized what an interesting character he really was. I mostly thought he was a creepy old guy, but I suppose there was a lot I didn’t realize about him. (I think the pictures distracted me)
MadScientistMatt said:Hef had some real and positive accomplishments. He helped launch the career of many famous writers, including Stephen King. But he was a man who didn't respect others' sexual freedom enough.
Yeah, I know, that's probably the last thing you'd expect me to accuse him of. But like most freedoms, that's an area where one needs to set limits on one's own freedom to ensure others can enjoy theirs. We can debate where exactly that line needs to be set, but some are pretty obvious. "Do not rape" is a necessary rule to allow others to be free not to be raped. Hugh crossed another line: He built himself a harem, and encouraged the idea that it was a good thing for men who are rich and powerful enough to do the same.
Polygamy - whether official or just de facto in the case of Hef - is something that can cause a lot of trouble if allowed to spread. You can still have a society function if the top 1% controls 50% of the wealth, if the other 50% is enough for the rest of the population. But you can't have a society function very well if the richest 25% of the men have 50% of the women. At least a quarter of the male population there are screwed, or more accurately, can't get screwed. Unless you have a population where a lot of the men had killed each other off, leaving more women than men (which could very well happen if a quarter of the male population can't find a mate)
And harems aren't exactly a good way to meet women's sexual needs either. A man might be able to keep two wives somewhat satisfied. But a man with a couple dozen wives, well, there's some challenges I doubt any man out there would be able to rise to the occasion. Especially not some tycoon in his '70s who has the money to afford such a collection. Ever read some of the notes on harem life in the Kama Sutra?
Sexual freedom requires a balance. And Hef was a lot of things, but he wasn't balanced.
You seem to have given this a lot of thought.
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but then it was brought to my attention by a fellow GRMer (who shall remain nameless). I don't think it's a fair comparison to lump someone like HH in with 3rd world despots or homicidal dictators. In a larger sense, Playboy and that whole empire is an extension of American capitalism. It's not immoral, it's amoral. One can make arguments about it either way, but the bottom line is, unless laws were broken and rights were violated, it really doesn't matter what one's opinions are on what he did. Sin isn't sin. We base our system of laws largely on natural law, and, for better or for worse, a good dose of theology does go into that. Stealing a pack of gum isn't the same as axe murdering a man, and our laws reflect that. I do not claim to have any special theological insight, but I can't comprehend how any deity would liken the two. I guess that's one of the things I respect about Roman Catholicism- they do make the distinction between venial and mortal sins.
There are lots of theories on how "bad" pornography has been for American civilization. One I read recently stated that marriage rates were declining in part due to the easy availability of pornography, coupled with the relative ease with which to prevent pregnancy these days. Basically, women will "give it away", and if they won't, men will find other ways to satisfy their biological urges.
Blah blah blah...TL;DR: HH wasn't a saint, but he wasn't the worst sinner, either, and likely did a lot of good things.
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