Rollin' in the Volt

Dr. Hess wrote: I hope our Dear Leader figures out how to tax the berkeley out of those Volt drivers. Yeah, you might fill the charge for a buck, but you are not paying $5 in various taxes for the road you use with it, you Volt leaching tax dodgers who won't pay up your fair share. I don't worry, though, Dear Leader will figure out how to tax you without ever bothering with that congress thing.

Nice flounder.

Be carful,though, that bulging vein in your forhead may burst at anytime- based on your anger.

So you don't want taxes to pay for the roads, then, eh? Interesting take.

To complete the flounder, the jackwads with the R's refuse to talk taxes, and since they are integral with the finances, we are unlikely to face any new taxes, regarless of how much sense they make (or if Billionaires like Warren Buffet keep asking to raise taxes).

Other than that- too bad that the car is having power problems at your house. Sounds like it needs a little warning to make sure the wiring in the homes are up to snuff....

Um, Eric...

I think his point was that road taxes are paid for with fuel purchases, and the Volt therefore doesn't pay it's fair share, so the government will have to begin a plan to tax by the mile instead of by the gallon, which none of us are likely to enjoy.

Um... perhaps the good Dr. is confusing the Volt with the Leaf? Yesterday, I drove for almost an entire hour on battery power. The rest of the day was spent guzzling good ole dino juice.

SVreX wrote: Um, Eric... I think his point was that road taxes are paid for with fuel purchases, and the Volt therefore doesn't pay it's fair share, so the government will have to begin a plan to tax by the mile instead of by the gallon, which none of us are likely to enjoy.

^This......

Eric can't detect Hess's sarcasm, goes fishing and lands a flounder.

Hess/win, Eric/fail = gubmint wins (maybe)...........

SVreX wrote: Arguing that it is cheap is enormously short sighted, unless we are all advocates of coal fired power plants. 57% of all electricity in the nation is generated by burning coal. Coal power plants are responsible for 93 percent of the sulfur dioxide and 80 percent of the nitrogen oxide emissions generated by the electric utility industry. My state (GA) imports more coal from other states than any other state. I guess while we are talking "green", we don't need to count the environmental impact of the emissions of the trucks and trains doing the hauling. I know you guys have heard it before. But I can't view it as an "advancement" when the root of it's power source is 150 years behind the times in terms of environmental technologies. Until we can update the infrastructure (which will take a huge amount of time), electrics will be a net drain on the health of the environment. Gasoline is a lot cleaner. Having said that, I may own one soon. I am partial owner in a patent for a great new micro electric generating turbine which looks like it is about to go viral. I'll drive one when I can generate my own clean energy.

I hear you Paul, but I think electrics are only a net drain if suddenly the entire US driving population went electric. As a true "alternative" technology, I think electric and Volt-style hybrids slot nicely into the marketplace. Personally, I'd love to see a marketplace where there were true alternatives: Gas, diesel, biodiesel, electric, hybrid, fuel cell—pick the one that suits you and your transportation situation the best. Allow all those technologies compete with each other for market share, and the cost of all of them will eventually drop.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote: I hear you Paul, but I think electrics are only a net drain if suddenly the entire US driving population went electric. As a true "alternative" technology, I think electric and Volt-style hybrids slot nicely into the marketplace. Personally, I'd love to see a marketplace where there were true alternatives: Gas, diesel, biodiesel, electric, hybrid, fuel cell—pick the one that suits you and your transportation situation the best. Allow all those technologies compete with each other for market share, and the cost of all of them will eventually drop. jg

I couldn't agree more.

My comment was not so much a dig on the Volt as it was to (hopefully help) bring attention to the terrible hole we have in the infrastructure to support decent alternative vehicles.

I like the Volt on the technology side, just don't think we have the infrastructure to adequately take advantage of the alternative it offers.

You continue to do the good job you are doing trying to promote the technology on the car side, I'll work on the infrastructure side.

SVreX wrote: Until we can update the infrastructure (which will take a huge amount of time), electrics will be a net drain on the health of the environment. Gasoline is a lot cleaner.

Start using natural gas. Once your politico's and NIMBY's get their heads on straight and realize there is nothing wrong with frac'ing, more plants can be built that utilize ng.

I had a natural gas truck for a while. Absolutely no interest.

I'd much rather improve the electric grid.

SVreX wrote: I had a natural gas truck for a while.

Natural gas power plants

So if road users don't pay to have roads, bridges etc. who should pay for them? Just asking?

I hate effing taxes, but things have to get fixed and built right?

I guess we could go back to the days of private roads, where you had to pay a person or company to use their roads. Everyone 5 miles would be owned by a company that would think their road was worth more than that last road. I guess it would get expensive, but I am sure they will provide emergency services for a small additional fee.

Dr. Hess wrote: I hope our Dear Leader figures out how to tax the berkeley out of those Volt drivers. Yeah, you might fill the charge for a buck, but you are not paying $5 in various taxes for the road you use with it, you Volt leaching tax dodgers who won't pay up your fair share. I don't worry, though, Dear Leader will figure out how to tax you without ever bothering with that congress thing.

An easier way to track mileage than gps would be to mandate annual safety/emmison checks. Every year the state of NY finds out how many miles I drive, they could easily bill from that. They have billed heavy trucks by the mile for decades

HiTempguy wrote:

SVreX wrote: I had a natural gas truck for a while.

Natural gas power plants

I think you missed my point.

My natural gas truck sucked. Why work on additional method of bringing similar products to market?

vazbmw wrote: So if road users don't pay to have roads, bridges etc. who should pay for them? Just asking?

He didn't suggest no taxes. He (sarcastically) recognized that EV's don't pay taxes like the rest of us.

Maybe you don't speak Hess.

SVreX wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

SVreX wrote: I had a natural gas truck for a while.

Natural gas power plants

I think you missed my point. My natural gas truck sucked. Why work on additional method of bringing similar products to market?

I think he was saying to allow more fracking and then have more natural gas available to burn, then build more natural gas fired electric plants to power the leaf and the volt and future EV's.

Other than the part about more fracking it sounds good to me.

Oh. I missed that.

Frack.

SVreX wrote: Oh. I missed that. Frack.

TJ wins. But you guys are beyond silly about fracking. From the other thread we had, what has happened is not a result of fracking, but highlights the way your state and Federal governments work on regulatory issues in my opinion.

Natural gas would not only boost your economy (a lot of people don't realize that natural gas, simply referred to as "gas" in Alberta makes up a significant portion of our revenue compared to the oil sands) but also that it is cheap, plentiful, and burns extremely clean. In fact, I'm willing to bet that mining for coal is more dangerous for more people than fracing would be. Transportation can be done in pipelines, major petrochemical companies can utilize it to create other products (namely polyethelene aka plastic base and ammonia aka fertilizer) and it is used to heat EVERY SINGLE HOME in Alberta.

But hey, what do I know, I only work in this industry right? Not often you hear on this forum people working in the oil & gas field

I am saying that EV will be paying one way or another once they are a higher percentage of the road going vehicles. The gov. wants to motivate us to get one and for manufactures to make them. Once done they will be paying too. In the mean time, I needs one of those EV dodads.

SVreX wrote:

vazbmw wrote: So if road users don't pay to have roads, bridges etc. who should pay for them? Just asking?

He didn't suggest no taxes. He (sarcastically) recognized that EV's don't pay taxes like the rest of us. Maybe you don't speak Hess.

Huh?

Your post sure didn't look like that.

vazbmw wrote: So if road users don't pay to have roads, bridges etc. who should pay for them? Just asking? I hate effing taxes, but things have to get fixed and built right? I guess we could go back to the days of private roads, where you had to pay a person or company to use their roads. Everyone 5 miles would be owned by a company that would think their road was worth more than that last road. I guess it would get expensive, but I am sure they will provide emergency services for a small additional fee.

Dr. Hess wrote: I hope our Dear Leader figures out how to tax the berkeley out of those Volt drivers. Yeah, you might fill the charge for a buck, but you are not paying $5 in various taxes for the road you use with it, you Volt leaching tax dodgers who won't pay up your fair share. I don't worry, though, Dear Leader will figure out how to tax you without ever bothering with that congress thing.

Lesley wrote: Volt is happily charging under the leafy wisteria canopy in my backyard (how's that for a green photo op?) Old house with 100 amp service can't run dryer, dehumidifier and hybrid car all at once...

You could purchase a gas-powered generator to charge the Volt and take the load off your house wiring!

Time to upgrade your wiring, Lesley. 100 amps? You can't run a plasma cutter and a welder off of that and still keep beer properly cold.

Ya know, all this electric car stuff would make more sense to this old fart if more power (say 90%) was generated via hydro and nuke. That would drastically cut pollution. But since everyone screeches about nukes and hydro, instead it means more nasty ol' coal burning. Meaning all that's going on is shifting pollution sources, instead of umpteen million small point sources you get a smaller number of big 'uns. Same amount of crap spewed in the atmosphere where it joins the huge clouds of smug.

But the Volt and Prius do show a different way of doing things, meaning at least someone is thinking ahead. Guess I should be glad for that.

I don't drink, nor do I own either a plasma cutter, nor a welder. Drove it 850 km today, only 53 of them were under battery power. Total avg. gas used 5.7L/100 km. I really like this car. Driving it is effortless, the rear seat room is extraordinary for a car of this size, and love the giant hatch. Wasn't expecting such great gas mileage, and that was with four people.

HiTempguy wrote:

SVreX wrote: Oh. I missed that. Frack.

TJ wins. But you guys are beyond silly about fracking. From the other thread we had, what has happened is not a result of fracking, but highlights the way your state and Federal governments work on regulatory issues in my opinion. Natural gas would not only boost your economy (a lot of people don't realize that natural gas, simply referred to as "gas" in Alberta makes up a significant portion of our revenue compared to the oil sands) but also that it is cheap, plentiful, and burns extremely clean. In fact, I'm willing to bet that mining for coal is more dangerous for more people than fracing would be. Transportation can be done in pipelines, major petrochemical companies can utilize it to create other products (namely polyethelene aka plastic base and ammonia aka fertilizer) and it is used to heat EVERY SINGLE HOME in Alberta. But hey, what do I know, I only work in this industry right? Not often you hear on this forum people working in the oil & gas field

I used to work on the distribution side. The problem with natural gas for power generation is that if all the coal plants went over - none of us that use it for space heating would be able to afford to heat our houses.

One power plant in Eastern Ontario (Lennox) was sufficient to almost double the throughput of Centra Gas (now absorbed into Union Gas) when we first started looking at it for conversion. That was operating an average 16% of the time.

Do that across NA and you are going to need a whole pile of new wells and pipelines - look at the protests going on in Washinton now. They would rather have millions of tanker trucks on the road rather than an infinitely safer pipeline.

personally, I like it. It is a good looking car (the local dealer has one) that from the front quarter looks like a cross between a saab 9-5 and an Acura.. which is not a bad thing.

I just hope Volt drivers won't be as pieus as prius drivers

NGTD wrote: Do that across NA and you are going to need a whole pile of new wells and pipelines - look at the protests going on in Washinton now. They would rather have millions of tanker trucks on the road rather than an infinitely safer pipeline.

Like I said, politicos and nimby's need to pull their heads out of their asses. I'm not suggesting a COMPLETE swap over to it, that would be very short sighted, but it is a much cleaner alternative form of energy while we wait for renewable resources to become viable.

I really like the styling of the Volt.