Roof time - that'll blow the budget

Ian F: I think you are dealing with the opposite problem. You are scaring them off.

PDF's are scary to residential contractors who frequently don't even use computers. You are intimidating them.

The bidding process is completely different for commercial and industrial construction than it is for residential. Commercial uses Means, and various unit pricing methods based on some factual system. Essentially, the project is well defined (by engineers, etc) beforehand, and then there is a "right" price. The differences become the markups, or special discounts identified for various components.

Residential contracting is a trust relationship. Honestly, the price is a bit of a guess. It has a lot to do with the customer and their expectations and attitude, not so much with the actual finished product or specs. Just as property owners are trying to identify a contractor they can trust to work fairly with them, contractors are trying to identify owners they can trust to work fairly with them also.

Many don't read plans well, can't bid projects accurately, and aren't that good at estimating time schedules. But the dynamic of what they deal with is completely different. They are asked to enter people's private homes, work around the kid's school schedules and the dog's eating patterns, and work with sometimes overly fussy people who don't really know what they want but saw something they liked on HGTV (although they fail to recognize that they REALLY can't afford the vision they have in their mind). Residential contractors are really just trying to make a living in a very unpredictable world.

They are completely different animals.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: If every contractor got every job they quoted on, there wouldn't be competition. The work is nature of the beast.

There really isn't any such thing as competition in residential construction. It's a perceived value, that doesn't really exist.

First of all, contractors rarely know what their competition bids. So, if they were too high, they can't adjust the price accurately, because they don't know what it was.

Secondly, you have no way to actually compare one contractor to another. No two jobs are alike. When your project is finished, you can assume that it is equal to/ better than/ worse than it would have been if another contractor did it, but the truth is that you have no idea.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: He's about to shell out a buttload of money, i hardly think that researching and getting quotes for said service is a bad thing.

Never said it was. I completely agree- it is very important to get prices and compare. I just said it should not be the first thing. There is a lot more research to do first, and failure to do this research (like identifying what contractors are a good fit for you and your project) is laziness on the part of the buyer. Going straight to getting a lot of prices is short circuiting the process, and doesn't lead to the trust relationship that is ultimately necessary for a great residential project.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: He has needs in his head about all this, and no matter if they're unwarranted or not, he's not going to go with someone that doesn't deliver. (Example: measuring roof in a way that he can see what's going on vs. eyeballing from the street.)

This is a great example of what I am talking about. It is a perceived value, nothing more. Who says the guy can read a tape measure, or calculate square footages? Who says the other contractors can't measure without getting on the roof? The thing that contractor did right was to develop the trust relationship. Good for him (AND for TR8owner).

Is he licensed? Insured? Are his employees paid legitimately in accordance with the Federal fair labor laws? Who takes the legal liability if one of his employees falls off the roof? We don't really know these things, because these questions weren't asked. The discussion went straight to price. BTW- worker's comp rates for roofing are nearly 50% of payroll. The price is ALWAYS cheaper if there is no insurance, and homeowners almost never ask. If there is no insurance and someone gets hurt, the homeowner is COMPLETELY liable.

I noticed that TR8owner said some of the contractors said he needed more vents, but he liked this guy because he said he didn't need more vents. Who says he's right? Did he do an air exchange calculation of the volume of the attic? Nope. Did he measure the moisture percentage of the surrounding decking? Nope. The truth is that TR8owner really doesn't know if he needs vents or not, but he trusts the contractor. That is all that really matters.

(I'm not picking on you, TR8owner. I'm really glad you got to work with someone you were satisfied with).

The trust relationship is really significant. The best ways to begin establishing this are to seek good references before looking at price.

I understand what you mean. I guess the problem my g/f has is she is so used to DIY that the idea of paying for this sort of work is foreign to her. Growing up, she watched her father and uncle build a A-frame house in PA from the foundation up. They did everything from pouring concrete to raising the structure to even excavating and installing the sewage system.

Of course, this build also happened over 20+ years of weekends and Summer vacations. As a result, the level of finish detail her father put into the house is a bit over the top. For example, since the house spends much of the time unoccupied (their main residence is in NNJ), he built the deck so it unfolds into a cover to protect the all-glass end of the main great room. It's nick-named the "transformer house" by those who have seen it (we host a couple of car picnics there).

Unfortunately, this is the sort of standard any contractor will be held against, but without the near-unlimited build-time and budget (her father actually spent relatively little on the house as most materials and tools were sourced through area farm auctions). That said, my own work will judged to this standard as well, so I can completely understand how a contractor would be put off. Hell, I have a lot of reservations of my own. She doesn't really trust me, so trusting contractor is never going to happen. Ever.

if its the back side of the house I like the nail 1 by fours to the out side and put up 3 ft by whatever aluminum panels