School me in used outboard motors.

SWMBO and I spent some time at a friend's house on the coast this weekend right on a tidal creek. One of the highlights of the weekend was cruising through the marsh in their old, haggard, absolutely-the-coolest 60's Boston Whaler 13. We've been talking about a larger sailboat, but now power boats are on the radar too. Having a skiff style boat that we could take out on the local lakes and river with our 75lb dog and still take to the coast for inshore salty cruising seems pretty appealing.

I've started trolling CL for old Whalers (God help me) and realized I know NOTHING about outboards. This is kind of a problem even if we end up with a sailboat since it would be big enough to need an outboard. The first thing I've learned is HOLY CARP boat motors are pricey! $800 for a 1985 motor that's got a cracked block and good only for parts? wow.

Are there brands I should avoid? How do you tell if an outboard is really in good shape in addition to hearing it run? Compression? What kind of service records should I be asking about? Are old engines just bound to blow up, or can they be reliable with proper care? I sort of have a phobia of engine reliability since my experience is small sail powered stuff.

FYI, we're talking older stuff under 70HP for the most part, likely under 40. Whalers and other skiffs in the 13'-17' range. I'd love to have a similar late 60's BW 13 in good shape with a 35-40 on it.

Interested to learn along with you on outboards.

Around here, Carolina Skiffs are very popular if you are not set on a whaler. All I know about whalers is their owners think they are made of gold based on the prices they ask for them, even the little 13-15' ones.

We have a 1982 Mercury. We're looking at new engines because parts are getting so expensive that it no longer is worth it to keep maintaining it.

Take it out on the water. Run it at all speeds (ours has a dead spot for about 1/4 of the throttle). See if it has a stutter or anything. Run it for about 40 minutes or more--my grandpas would cut out after 10 minutes. Make sure it is still spitting water (water cooled). Make sure it is a salt-water engine (not a concern for me, yay).

As for brands, I prefer Yamaha to anything else. I'd probably rate it Yamaha>Evinrude>Mercury>Honda--not that the Honda is bad, but it is heavy and expensive; meanwhile the Merc is less expensive and very available. But if you ask 20 people it will probably be pretty evenly split for their preferences.

EDIT: on anything that isn't a Whaler, Lund, or Ranger, the value in the boat is actually in the engine and trailer. Not uncommon for people to buy a boat for the trailer or engine and then sell/give away/throw away the hull.

Are we talking 2 stroke or 4 stroke engines here?

I know salt water is bad, if you can find something from a freshwater lake it'll be less corroded.

Otherwise it seems like outboards can be workhorses that last forever or utter pieces of junk that will make you question every decision that led you down the path that has you stranded a mile from land at dusk and utterly unable to start your POS outboard. Just sayin'

KyAllroad wrote: I know salt water is bad, if you can find something from a freshwater lake it'll be less corroded.

Make sure it is a salt water model.

EDIT: Salt water models use more stainless steel parts than regular outboards and corrode less. I've heard rumors that they're all the same nowadays but I would be looking for one that said salt. The sweet spot would be finding a salt water engine that was run only in fresh water.

Not an outboard, but Volvo made a marine version of the redblock that's stouter and loves boost even more.

4 stroke outboards get pricy, but are much easier to live with, especially if anyone is prone to getting queezy.

Good info so far. The Carolina Skiffs are a possibility, particularly if we start talking about 17' boats.

Motor will most likely be a 2-stroke for the price range I'm looking in. I'm sort of amazed that I can buy a $2000 car that's dead reliable but I can't buy a $2000 boat that I would take further out than ten feet.

I've seen a couple 13' vintage whalers in the $3500 - $4500 range that are in good shape and mostly restored. For $6k-$7k I can get a nice 17' Carolina Skiff or an older but serviceable 17' Whaler. I could probably gin up $4000 dollars when the time comes, anything over that will mean talking to the loan sharks. I'd prefer to stay out-of-pocket, but even more than that I'd prefer to have something reliable enough not to worry about taking my family out on some lonely backwater tidal creek.

Almost no one I know is running their old outboards these days. New or at least new-ish. The performance, reliability and economy of the newer engines is phenominal compared to the older two strokes.

Boats really are a financial hole in the water that you try to fill with money. Old boats are worse, with the rot. Old wooden boats are truly beautiful, but the maintenance on them is tremendous. Cheap old boats are a lot like a cheap old Porsche.

foxtrapper wrote: Almost no one I know is running their old outboards these days. New or at least new-ish. The performance, reliability and economy of the newer engines is phenominal compared to the older two strokes.

I'd like to point out that this seems like a relatively recent development. It used to be that you'd see engines of any and all ages. We were seldom the oldest engine we'd see out on the water. Now, we are usually by far the oldest--some of that is a function of us running the same engine for 16 years (and that engine being 18 years old when we got it), but it was nothing in 2000 to see a running Merc/Chrsyler/Johnson/Evinrude that was 40 years old. We probably saw about 6 a trip. Now we're in a 34 year old engine and it is usually the oldest one we see by at least 15 years. It seems that there was a major shift in reliability around the late 90's.

foxtrapper wrote: Almost no one I know is running their old outboards these days. New or at least new-ish. The performance, reliability and economy of the newer engines is phenominal compared to the older two strokes. Boats really are a financial hole in the water that you try to fill with money. Old boats are worse, with the rot. Old wooden boats are truly beautiful, but the maintenance on them is tremendous. Cheap old boats are a lot like a cheap old Porsche.

Yeah, I kind of think when the time comes I may be better off to pony up for a newer boat. I know boating is a money-losing equation, but I at least want to get some use out of throwing away money and not just throw it away on an unusable yard decoration.

ultraclyde wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: Almost no one I know is running their old outboards these days. New or at least new-ish. The performance, reliability and economy of the newer engines is phenominal compared to the older two strokes. Boats really are a financial hole in the water that you try to fill with money. Old boats are worse, with the rot. Old wooden boats are truly beautiful, but the maintenance on them is tremendous. Cheap old boats are a lot like a cheap old Porsche.

Yeah, I kind of think when the time comes I may be better off to pony up for a newer boat. I know boating is a money-losing equation, but I at least want to get some use out of throwing away money and not just throw it away on an unusable yard decoration.

Just to re-iterate--the hull doesn't change much. You can look at it and tell if its in good condition. Don't be afraid of an older boat with a newer engine. 95% of the maintenance comes from the engine in my experience.

I had an 82/83 merc 40 on a 13' whaler clone (Coho P134 for those who care) Ran great, but working on it sucked. Every bolt was galvanicaly welded in place. I had the power head off once when it started as replacing a gasket....

Carb'ed two strokes are really simple, thats a plus. My newer boat is still a carb'ed 2 stroke, doesnt get good mpg's like newer DFI 2 or 4 strokes, but its light weight, pretty simple and when we are talking under 150HP gas is still reasonable if your not going super long distance. Newer motor is a merc as well and I would get another.

Maintenance is going to be a big thing with older engines. Flushing saltwater out if used in salt is a big one to longevity as well. Sea trial it, for a good long time, at idle, at WOT. Google the motor and check its WOT spec, make sure the boat will hit it.

IMO id get a little bigger than the 13' whaler if you can afford it. Great little boats but A) beat you to death in any chop B) get full fast with cooler dog wife etc.

Just to re-iterate--the hull doesn't change much. You can look at it and tell if its in good condition. Don't be afraid of an older boat with a newer engine. 95% of the maintenance comes from the engine in my experience.

Right. Maybe I find an old hull I like with a good trailer and no motor for cheap, and then finance a new motor. I assume someone will happily let me go into debt on a motor that's not attached to a new boat.

ultraclyde wrote:

Just to re-iterate--the hull doesn't change much. You can look at it and tell if its in good condition. Don't be afraid of an older boat with a newer engine. 95% of the maintenance comes from the engine in my experience.

Right. Maybe I find an old hull I like with a good trailer and no motor for cheap, and then finance a new motor. I assume someone will happily let me go into debt on a motor that's not attached to a new boat.

They might, actually. Shocking, I know, but I've seen it.

I've never been in front of a 4 stroke outboard. My better experiences were with old 2 stroke Mercurys. We had a 100hp Evinrude on a Ski Barge, that if you could ever get it started, ran like a scalded dog. And guzzling gas. The 40 horse Mercury would stay out all day on one tank.

Two of our boats were Whalers, which is what I would look for if I was a looking. The Ski Barge was referred to derisively as the Garbage Scow.

There are some whaler "clones" that are well made as well. Mine was made locally off a whaler mold, laid out as a CC. People still want $$$ for them though.

I went back to aluminum, tows nice for how big it is.

First and foremost, B.O.A.T. is a acronym. Break Out Another Thousand. And is defined as, a hole in the water, into which much money is poured.

That's said, I bought my first boat when I was 11 and have never not owned one.

A lot of people love the Whaler and McKee Crafts. I'm not one of them. I had a 13' McKee with a 50hp Evinrude for a couple of years, not my favorite boat. There are much better riding hulls out there. They are durable, but they will beat you to death and they can be a very wet ride.

Carolina Skiffs are going to have the same problem. If there is any chop it's going to be uncomfortable.

For cruising, I prefer a V hull. My current weapon of choice is a 1996 Key West 1720DC with a 1996 Yamaha 90. It's a great cruising boat. Reasonably fuel efficient, fast enough to ski or tube behind and large enough to keep you dry when the waves pick up.

Not my boat, but same hull.

If you plan to do as much fishing as cruising, I'd go with the center console rather than the dual console. Like this.

Engines can be very reliable. Mine is a 96 Yamaha 2 stroke, that still runs like new. It's spent it's entire life in salt water and still looks pretty new as well. Care is everything. It gets a through cleaning every time it comes out of the water. It also get the carbs run dry every trip, so there is so alcohol fuel sitting in them to attract moisture. I baby it for the most part, because I know how expensive it is to fix. While I would love a 4 stroke, they are still too expensive for me.

Trailers are usually a basket case on a used boat. Nobody seems to take care of them. I'd plan on spending some money there on springs, shackles and lights. If you put over in salt water a lot, either learn to do it without getting the trailer wet or plan on working on it every couple of years. My trailer is a 96, but I don't get anything but the tires wet launching and loading. It still rusts, but not as fast.

I don't recommend buying a project boat or engine unless you seriously want a project. It's not a way to save money. They can be much more expensive than you think. Outboard parts are priced like Porsche parts and anytime you add the word Marine on a part, the price quadruples.

The best way I know to determine how well a engine is cared for is corrosion in transom bracket and paint on the foot.

Foot paint, as a rule is extremely durable. Some loss of paint on the skeg is normal, everybody runs aground at some point. This engine has been abused. Not only is the paint worn off the skeg, it's worn off the entire front of the gear case. That's a sure sign of repeated high speed grounding. Anyone that abuses a $3000 lower unit like this, probably doesn't take care of any other part of the boat either. I'd put it on the do not buy list.

The next two pictures are a transom bracket and steering bracket. If they look like this, it wasn't cleaned well after using and the water passages in the engine don't look much better. I'd put it on the do not buy list.

This is just under the powerhead. The entire engine pivots on this part. It is a nightmare to replace.

This is the trim and tilt assembly. It is under the engine and is visible when the engine is tilted up. Some corrosion is normal, but not this much. Another sign of not cleaning after use.

That's all I got at the moment. Hopefully it was worth reading.

I knew nothing of boats then my mother dragged home a 40 year old 16 ft Sears Gamefisher she found for $300 to surprise my father. It had a Tohatsu(sp?) 4 stroke that hadn't been started in years. I changed the fluids and spark plugs and it started instantly and ran flawlessly for the past 15 or so years several times a week in salt water. The only maintainence it's had are occasional tune up, fluid changeand the engine gets flushed with fresh water after each use. I haven't seen many of them but after hearing so many boat horror stories I could imagine a more reliable motor.

In reply to Wall-e:

I think tohatsu may be the same as Nissan.

Boating can be expensive if you let it be. I bought my Blue Fin v hull aluminum with 50 hp Mercury and trailer all for $325 off CL. It's all vintage 1978 but it does the same thing a newer version does, just maybe a bit slower. I did put a new floor in it and re-glassed the transom. The seller thought the Merc was shot because it overheated on him. I gambled and still bought it and found all it needed was a new water pump which was pretty easy to replace. I don't use the boat as much as I'd like but I have a water ready boat so cheap I can't complain. I know two people who are making huge boat payments and those boats only go in the water a few times a year.

Whalers are big $$$ in my area. I appreciate their quality but the thought of keeping a white/cream colored boat clean has always kept me from really wanting one.

Toyman01 wrote: Foot paint, as a rule is extremely durable. Some loss of paint on the skeg is normal, everybody runs aground at some point.

there are two types of sailors (or boaters) those that have run aground and those that lie about it

More good info. I'm not a big fisherman, but I suspect I'll do more of it with a boat. It still won't be the main purpose of the boat.

I don't particularly want a center console. I dont like the standing driving position or the lack of other seating for more passengers. I really like the side console layout and the option on the older whalers to build in bench seating with wood planks.

I'm not opposed to a walk through vhull, but my wife doesn't care for them. She's spent a lot more time on that whaler than I have and she loves it. Combine that with their really shallow draft and I'm pretty sure a skiff is where we're headed. Not sure how to address the center console issue.

I priced new 40hp Tohatsu and Mercs. Maybe a late model used boat with a well serviced motor isn't such a bad option!

Mako is another brand that is a good Whaler knock off.

mad_machine wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: Foot paint, as a rule is extremely durable. Some loss of paint on the skeg is normal, everybody runs aground at some point.

there are two types of sailors (or boaters) those that have run aground and those that lie about it

Trust me, I've shot mud 50' in the air with the engine screaming 7 grand before. I have still never removed the paint from the gear case on a outboard.

For that fact, I have run the Jet Boat aground. And that's pretty shocking, because the pump sucks all the water out from under the boat and it stops rather suddenly. Almost sent my eldest son over the bow.