School me in used outboard motors.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to ultraclyde: Careful with the Force outboards. Some of them were made by Mercury and weren't awful, but some of them were build on a old Chrysler design and horrible doesn't even come close to describing them. There is a reason they are cheap.

Ahh, thanks. Actually, there are several decent outboards in the 35-70hp range in PCB for under $1000. Older Johnsons and some evinrudes, plus others. I actually sent an email to the guy with the hull but the ad was put up 20 days ago, so I doubt it's still around. Of course, if it IS, it might be trashed...or just getting cheaper....

If he still has it I may be looking for a forum member to eyeball it for me before I make a 4 hour drive...

something to be careful with outboards... make sure you run them dry when you are done for the day. As in disconnect the fuel and run until it dies. This drains the carb and keeps the ethanol in the fuel from eating the seals and lines... not to mention keeps water out of the engine due to fuel condensation.

As most outboards have the engine set on end, this also keeps fuel from running into the cylinders and then into the oil

And then there's this....

http://www.centralgeorgiamarina.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=2157626&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory

Careful with Whalers, they are addicting:

Current: 13' now belongs to my parents:

Past:

One more:

If you're looking at cheap/old Boston Whalers, I'd recommend weighing the boat before buying. The foam can pick up a lot of water and that pretty much junks the hull.

So this topic is sort of interesting to me. I say sort of because I don't own a boat /outboard engine, nor do I plan to, but there is a bass boat in my back yard as of about 7 pm tonight. My brother and 2 of his friends bought this thing for $2k this afternoon. Brought it to the local pond and tried using it. Engine won't start. He asked if he could bring it over as he doesn't have room for it. Like an idiot I agreed to let him bring it over. We messed around with it, and I figured out it has spark and compression, but doesn't appear to be getting fuel. Hand pump is really firm and doesn't appear to be working. It's a mercury 90 horsepower 4 cylinder 2-stroke.

I didn't mess with it too much as it was dinner time and I'm not feeling well either. They decided the fuel is E36 M3, and don't trust the tank or hand bulb. Anything simple I can steer them towards? I really don't want this boat being here long. I think the engine is an 83 and the boat is an 89.

Chris

I'll tell you the truth: I've been a boater since I was tiny. I got my first boat when I was 12 and I've owned probably 10 since. I also worked at a marina for a few summers and one of my side gigs is buying up junk outboards and putting parts from three together to make one, and things of that sort.

Nearly any outboard before about 1998 is almost bulletproof. I have an 88 Merc 70 that I wish I had bought an hour meter for it. Every summer since 1988 it has been used HARD in salt and fresh from late May to early September. When I say hard, I mean a typical day for it goes like this: morning fishing with a lot of trolling for three hours at a time. Day trip on the lake usually with an hour or so of skiing, tubing, kneeboarding, and hooning. Evening fishing trip with another couple hours of trolling. Finally this last summer I had to replace the fuel pump and the stator. I currently have two Evinrude 30s from the early 80s that I'm putting together to make one, but they both run despite looking like they have been through a nuclear explosion.

Force motors of yore are Chrysler designs that should be avoided at all costs. About the time Force was bought by Merc/Mariner, Mercury started outsourcing and cheapening things. These days if I were buying new, I would buy a Yamaha or Suzuki. In fact, I have a Yamaha 50 on a pontoon now. I think it has four years on it now and I love it.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used outboard. Parts are everywhere and cheap. Replacement parts are interchangeable across decades and multiple models.

I really get so frustrated with folks who talk about "hole in the water you throw money into" and "bring out another thousand." I've had some boats for 15 years and didn't put a single penny into them. The two 30 horse Evinrudes I have I paid $25 for the pair; $12.50 each. And they run. And I wouldn't mind putting them on the lake tomorrow. Once I fix them up, I'll probably buy a $500 aluminum boat and I could probably run them for another 15 years.

Recipe: Find a late 70s - early 90s OMC in the horsepower you want. If it runs, you know that anything it needs will likely be small and cheap. Things to check: Where the pull cord and/or starter engage the teeth on the flywheel, look for wear in the teeth. That is a vague indicator of how much its been used. Pull the drain plug out of the lower unit. If its cloudy/milky, has water come out first, or has flakes of metal, you might want to look for another option first, but water is not necessarily bad. It rarely means there is damage (unless you see flakes), but it may indicate that the shaft seal needs to be replaced. The big consequence of having water in the lower unit is freezing/cracking. Start it on water muffs and listen. Then watch the pee stream. Make sure its steady and strong. When hot, it should be almost too hot to keep your hand in. If the pee starts and stops, don't panic, it just means it might be a model with a thermostat. (or it has a prostate problem).

For comparison sake, I just sold a 92 Merc 25 EL (electric start, remote control) with the controls for $1000. They bring pretty money. But buying an older outboard is kinda like buying a 1978 Mercedes diesel. It will cost pennies, but probably run forever.

In reply to curtis73:

15 years and not a penny? No maintenance? You are a braver soul than I am. I've broken enough stuff to not do that anymore.

At a minimum, I change the gear oil every year and water pumps and plugs every two. I guess if you are running junk rigs you can do it on a shoe string, but I put a couple of hundred running hours per year on the Key West. I hate to paddle and most of places I go, don't have cell service. Much like a car, a little maintenance goes a long way.

If you do the maintenance, they aren't too expensive to own. The smaller ones are even better.

I have owned a 260hp, 60mph, 21' fire breather that would drink 50-60 gallons of gas in a day. Full song was 12+ gallons a hour. That is money poured into a hole in the water. Fun, but in no way was it cheap.

If you have a line on really cheap engine parts, I'd love to know where. I need a SS impeller for the Jet Boat and the Yamaha 90 is due for a water pump kit at the end of this year.

Reading your engine and hull prices, I have to wonder if you live in a non-title state. Anything that cheap around here doesn't have a title and isn't usable for anything but parts, because you can't register it. No title, no registration. Over 5hp if it's an engine and any boat that isn't human powered.

To make matters even worse, if it is a old boat, that hasn't been registered in years, all back property taxes and registration fees have to be paid, before you can get the title transferred and a current registration. Even the cheap boats aren't cheap.

Maybe I need to shop out of state for my next one.

I have found prices vary a lot around the country too. In the PNW boat prices are insane, I drove a state away for my last one.

I don't find the small parts, say fuel pump, carb parts, impeller etc that expensive, but if your not doing the work yourself mechanics are crazy $

java230 wrote: I don't find the small parts, say fuel pump, carb parts, impeller etc that expensive, but if your not doing the work yourself mechanics are crazy $

I agree! I've gotten most of the stuff my '83 Johnson needed from a local dealer, and while not cheap, he had the parts (various gaskets and seals) in stock at a reasonable cost. Shopping online, I've found good deals on stuff like water pump rebuild kits and a prop. Walmart carries stuff like gearcase lube. Of course my first investment was a factory shop manual, like new, from ebay for 60 clams. It's paid for itself many times over by now.

This is turning into a very informative thread.

After much discussion with SWMBO we agree what we're looking for is a side console, open plan skiff in the 15-17' range, which is a pretty rare thing. I love the old 13' type, but I'm afraid it would be too small for big open inshore water or bays while still being too big (motor wise) for some of the local small lakes. Sadly, most of the boats in the 15-17' range are CC and/or have decked areas front and rear for fishing but don't offer much seating or stowage options. What I really (REALLY) like the looks of are the newer Whaler 150 Super Sports. The Super Sport series is their side console line that's more focused on family runabout duty. Unfortunately even the older ones hold a good bit of value, so we may eventually bite the bullet and buy a newer used one. Right now there is a gorgeous, full option 2013 near us with 25 hours on it for $12,500. That's not chump change, but there are 2000 models selling for $10,000 so in comparison it seems pretty reasonable. That option wouldn't happen until next summer though.

In the mean time I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap old hull in good shape. In the late 60s, early 70s the side console was much more common in the size range we'd like. If one turns up that's a good deal I can always stick it in the back yard and start looking for an old outboard in good shape.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to curtis73: 15 years and not a penny? No maintenance? You are a braver soul than I am. I've broken enough stuff to not do that anymore.

Don't be a poopy head. I was talking about repairs. Of course I put money in maintenance, but if you consider $6 a year for lower unit oil and spark plugs expensive, then we're not on the same page

If you do the maintenance, they aren't too expensive to own. The smaller ones are even better.

That is my point. If you need a stainless impeller for a jet and its expensive, that doesn't mean a 50hp Evinrude will be just as expensive. That's like saying all cars are expensive to own because your Ferrari's muffler cost $4000 to replace

If you have a line on really cheap engine parts, I'd love to know where. I need a SS impeller for the Jet Boat and the Yamaha 90 is due for a water pump kit at the end of this year.

My main supplier is a company out of Ottawa, ONT called marine mart, but I get wholesale pricing through the marina where I used to work. ebasicpower.com is a good source. Kinda like the Rock Auto of marine stuff. The single best source I have is a marine junkyard in Austin TX. Can't remember the name for the life of me, but its just east of town. They're cheap and they ship.

Reading your engine and hull prices, I have to wonder if you live in a non-title state. Anything that cheap around here doesn't have a title and isn't usable for anything but parts, because you can't register it. No title, no registration. Over 5hp if it's an engine and any boat that isn't human powered.

PA is a titling state for anything over 14' and powered manufactured 1983 or later. $500 boats are like mosquitoes around here, especially in the fall.

$250 fiberglass tri-hull bowrider
$500 19' bowrider sport with 125hp outboard (unfortunately a Force outboard)
$250 Glasstron with a non-running Johnson 120
Plenty to choose from around here, cheap with titles.

To make matters even worse, if it is a old boat, that hasn't been registered in years, all back property taxes and registration fees have to be paid, before you can get the title transferred and a current registration. Even the cheap boats aren't cheap. Maybe I need to shop out of state for my next one.

Yikes. Around here, boat registration is something like $17 for two years. Title transfer is $34 I think, and you can stop and start registration without penalty. And property taxes on a boat?

Can anyone give me an ID on what manufacturer this boat is?

Cheap Old Skiff

The minor hole is fixable, but if I knew the manufacturer I might be able to figure out what material inside the hull has rotted. I'd guess late 60's - early 70s, but the bow and stern structure don't look like a whaler or a Carolina.

most 'glass boats are made of three things.. Some sort of glassfibre, wood, and foam. All can be mixed and matched without worry. Foam, you can cut it open, scoop it out, and replace with that expanding surfboard foam (ACTUNG! Do not get on hootis). For wood, for light weight and less rot, you want Okoume. Best way to fix the 'glass is to go to your local westmarine store and get some epoxy. The west system is -very- easy to use and everything you might ever need is there.

If you do decide to replace the plywood on the boat, be sure to coat all sides of it with epoxy to seal it. If you decide to go this route, give me a PM.. I have gotten very good at epoxy and I can help

I've got some epoxy and glass at the house. The Whalers from the same era were all foam filled but once most of the foam gets waterlogged it's not worth fixing. The waterlogged foam takes a good bit of time to happen and is pretty easy to spot from hull weight. If this little cheapie was foam filled and the foam was relatively dry I'd be tempted to slap a patch on the hole, clean it and drop in some cheap plank seats and find a cheap stick-steer 25HP motor just to go joyriding until something nicer became an option.

EDIT: my big concern was if this hull wasn't foam filled and/or used a lot of wood reinforcement that would likely be rotten, I'm not doing the work to rip it all out and replace it. I'll wait on a better option.

Any reason you're skipping over this one? http://macon.craigslist.org/boa/5655674658.html

Not really wanting a center console boat. Also not quite ready to move on something in that price range.

ultraclyde wrote: Not really wanting a center console boat. Also not quite ready to move on something in that price range.

Have you had a boat before to know that you don't? In general, I'd rank a center console above a single side console. If you want the double-side consoles (i.e. full windshield) then it is a different story.

EDIT: Just saw your reasoning. I'd say that the "standing" issue really isn't one at all. Seating probably is.

mtn wrote:

ultraclyde wrote: Not really wanting a center console boat. Also not quite ready to move on something in that price range.

Have you had a boat before to know that you don't? In general, I'd rank a center console above a single side console. If you want the double-side consoles (i.e. full windshield) then it is a different story. EDIT: Just saw your reasoning. I'd say that the "standing" issue really isn't one at all. Seating probably is.

It really depends on size. On my 13 Whaler, I like the side console but really like it in tiller form. On my 15, I converted it to center console but I keep going back and forth on if that was a good call. Side console opens the boat up alot for dive gear and whatever you want. 17+ I'll stick with center consoles.

As for the 13 vs 15 vs 16/17 whalers, the 15 rides the best by far but it's much more tippy. Also rated for one less person than the 13 and 17.

As for the 13 vs 15 vs 16/17 whalers, the 15 rides the best by far but it's much more tippy. Also rated for one less person than the 13 and 17.

Really? What era are you talking about? The new models (which are the easiest to find the data on) list the 13 @ 4 ppl, 15 @ 6ppl, and the 17 @ 7 ppl in the super sport line. Any idea why the middle size is more tippy?

mtn wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: Almost no one I know is running their old outboards these days. New or at least new-ish. The performance, reliability and economy of the newer engines is phenominal compared to the older two strokes.

I'd like to point out that this seems like a relatively recent development. It used to be that you'd see engines of any and all ages. We were seldom the oldest engine we'd see out on the water. Now, we are usually by far the oldest--some of that is a function of us running the same engine for 16 years (and that engine being 18 years old when we got it), but it was nothing in 2000 to see a running Merc/Chrsyler/Johnson/Evinrude that was 40 years old. We probably saw about 6 a trip. Now we're in a 34 year old engine and it is usually the oldest one we see by at least 15 years. It seems that there was a major shift in reliability around the late 90's.

I know a few years back collectors were buying up vintage outboards. I don't think there was any intent to use them on a boat, it was just the current collector fad among whatever group of people(which seemed to be old white guys from what I saw).

I'm guessing that dried up the supply as well as driving up the price.

In reply to petegossett:

I do recall a few years back finding a small 2 cyl 1950s mercury outboard helping clean out a barn, cleaned the points, had it running on a spray bottle in a bucket, put it on CL priced a little lower than other similar stuff I could find. Some old white guy came out and gave me something like $150 for it in under a week after spending about 30 seconds looking at it, in Michigan of all places, where boats practically grow on trees.

ultraclyde wrote:

As for the 13 vs 15 vs 16/17 whalers, the 15 rides the best by far but it's much more tippy. Also rated for one less person than the 13 and 17.

Really? What era are you talking about? The new models (which are the easiest to find the data on) list the 13 @ 4 ppl, 15 @ 6ppl, and the 17 @ 7 ppl in the super sport line. Any idea why the middle size is more tippy?

Sorry, I don't really even think about the new ones. Those are just overweight shoe boxes. I was referencing the classics. The 15 has a much deeper V while the 13/16/17 are more of a traditional tri hull.

And for the classics, the 13/16/17 are rated for 6 while the 15 is rated for 5. Now that I say that the newer (but still classic) 17 may have been rated for 7.