So last Monday my motorcycle, a 2015 Yamaha FJ-09, started making noise while it was idling as I put my gloves and helmet on. The cam chain tensioner is a known issue and the dealer said if it ever became noisy to bring it in and Yamaha will replace it due to a TSB on the issue. I pushed it back into the garage and trailered it to the dealer Tuesday after work. In total it idled for maybe a minute after it started making noise that I was sure was just chain slap from the CCT failing. I assumed it would be a quick diagnosis and a 30min repair once the part came in. Wednesday they called and said it would not start, but something sounds broken inside. The bike is out of warranty and I can't afford to pay the dealer to tear it down for further diagnosis. I asked them to do not go further and picked the bike up Thursday. They had drained the oil, said it looked normal, but did not replace it. I haven't touched it since then. Dealer said they asked Yamaha if they would be willing to help in this situation and they returned with "absolutely not".
Should I write a letter to Yamaha relaying my displeasure that my two year old, 10K mile bike that is my only vehicle which was used daily and never abused and has been serviced regularly has broken internally?
I certainly don't expect them to do anything. And I don't have the mental energy to fight with them or the dealer over this. But I feel like I should at least voice my displeasure.
Would I be pissing in the wind or could anything good come out of it?
In reply to Nick Comstock :
It can't hurt, but I wouldn't do it with the expectation that you will get anything but an automated response back.
I doubt the thing is really hurt if you just shut it off- I would pick it up from the dealer and get to diagnosing. Looks like manual cam chain tensioners are cheap and readily available, with any luck that's all you need.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
Dealer believes the cams got out of time and pistons contacted valves.
I will start tearing into it this weekend.
In reply to Nick Comstock :
I haven't encountered many cam chain arrangements that could even do that at idle speed without breaking entirely, I think they were trying to butter you up for a big repair bill. If the engine turns by hand you already know they're probably wrong- pop it into 4th or 5th gear and roll it a little?
Duke
MegaDork
10/30/18 11:47 a.m.
Nick Comstock said:
Should I write a letter to Yamaha relaying my displeasure that my two year old, 10K mile bike that is my only vehicle which was used daily and never abused and has been serviced regularly has broken internally?
Don't write them. Letters are easy to ignore. Don't get abusive, even if you are angry.
Call the dealer and ask for the name and phone number of the Yamaha district representative. Then call that person and calmly explain your case. Get them on your side. Make them understand this is your daily transportation, not a toy. Get them to offer whatever goodwill assistance they can - and they can, if they're on your side.
I'm going to check the cam timing then do a leakdown test. If it passes the leakdown test I'll put a manual CCT on it and attempt to start it. If it fails I'll pull the head to see what I find.
docwyte
UltraDork
10/30/18 1:41 p.m.
So it was idling fine, just noisy, then you took it to them and they claim a catastrophic failure? Color me skeptical. Check the timing, replace the CCT and fire it up.
In reply to docwyte :
Yes, exactly as you described. I'm beginning to think the only reason they drained the oil was to prevent me from firing it up in front of them and calling them on it.
Torkel
New Reader
10/30/18 3:57 p.m.
Nick Comstock said:
In reply to docwyte :
Yes, exactly as you described. I'm beginning to think the only reason they drained the oil was to prevent me from firing it up in front of them and calling them on it.
Exactly my thought. it seems a bit far fetched to start the diagnostics by draining the oil. If they were looking for shavings, they should have cut open the filter.
Diagnose and document. Then call the regional sales manager with what you find. If it really is a simple thing I would go out of my way to let corporate know that there dealer is doing a really good job at getting you to start thinking of a Honda or other bike when the time comes to replace it.
Why is this such a common theme in the dealer service departments.
Duke
MegaDork
10/30/18 4:24 p.m.
dean1484 said:
Why is this such a common theme in the dealer service departments.
Because buyers have typically learned to negotiate down to the point that the margin on the vehicle sale itself is not very large (with exceptions that prove the rule, of course).
It's all just speculation until I get in and figure out what happened.
Torkel said:
Nick Comstock said:
In reply to docwyte :
Yes, exactly as you described. I'm beginning to think the only reason they drained the oil was to prevent me from firing it up in front of them and calling them on it.
Exactly my thought. it seems a bit far fetched to start the diagnostics by draining the oil. If they were looking for shavings, they should have cut open the filter.
In my world doing a drain and strain on suspected internal engine issues is pretty common. If you get pieces you know you have problems. Dropping the oil pan to look for debris is common too. None of the manufacturers I have worked with want to see pictures of an oil filter cut open submitted with a warranty claim. Thats in the car world though. YMMv.
In reply to logdog :
The work order said diagnose engine noise. They called me when they said it wouldn't start. I told them not to continue. Where in that process would you have drained the oil?
In reply to Nick Comstock :
If I was given a ticket to diagnose an engine noise but the vehicle wouldn't start and it sounded broken on the inside, that would be possibly my next step. Granted I am looking at it from the viewpoint of dealing with auto manufacturers where one of the first questions asked by Techline or warranty authorization is if there is metal in the oil. I kept disposable paint strainers in my tool box for engine and transmission oils. Im not sure what processes Yamaha uses.
If I were you I would contact whatever Yamaha's version of a consumer affairs department is. I doubt they will put you in direct contact with the district rep first. They might, but I would suspect they have a process that they follow that starts with a call center. They should have some contact info somewhere on their website. Most likely you will have to agree to pay for diagnosis first, and then they would possibly offer to either cover it or reimburse you. The fact that it is potentially a known issue with an associated TSB should make them more flexible with goodwill warranty repairs.
Torkel
New Reader
10/30/18 10:25 p.m.
In reply to logdog :
I agree that if you hear a bad noise from your engine, you might want to check the oil for glittery trouble. But if the bike didn’t start, they can’t possibly have heard the noise in question. The process of “The customers bike won’t start, so we can’t hear the noise he wants diagnosed - let’s drain the oil but do nothing else.”, doesn’t seem reasonable to me. But, as stated, it’s all speculation at this point.
Up to date update.
Cams are in time. Turns over easily by hand with no odd noises. Leakdown test showed #1 cyl passing while #2 & #3 with over 55% leakage. Bumped regulator on leakdown tester causing readings to go crazy therefore invalidating test results. Awaiting next paycheck to replace regulator on leakdown tester. Valve lash is tighter than spec, intake and exhaust.
are you below the hard deck of 10,000 ft?
Finally got around to replacing the regulator on the leakdown tester.
New test results show all three cylinders with around 17% leakage.
At this point I'm going to set the valve lash back into spec, put a new manual CCT on it and see if it'll start.
Any luck getting your bike going?
In reply to 2002maniac :
You can catch up with the goings on here https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/motorcycles-and-bicycles/good-and-bad-news/146123/page1/
My next step is to get the valve clearances in spec and sync the throttle bodies.
So sorta kinda. I'm not riding it yet but it starts and runs.
Too close for missiles. Switch to guns.
Ah, I missed that thread. I agree that with only 70 psi of cylinder compression you would probably not get it to run at all. Best of luck to you!
