Since the gun topic and Ukraine have been civilish how about

Streetwiseguy said:

I'm a big fan of learning to deal with life without relying on mind altering substances.  

Life is hard, and learning to deal with it is quite important.

The violence would have nothing to do with weed.  Meth, coke, whiskey, sure.  Weed just puts you to sleep.

2 things here: 1.) this reads like "suck it up and deal with it", which has been the prevailing mindset of society for decades and has done more to harm and prevent mental health advances than any elected person ever. 

B.) Making blanet statements like "weed just puts you to sleep" makes you sound uneducated. I have met many people in my years that get extremely paranoid and agitaed on weed. Whether it's the newer strains that hit harder or what it is, it happens. 

On the topic asked,  I don;t think its the cause, but I am certain it hasn't helped in some cases.

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:
 

They brought it up a decade or two ago, but there is a lot of non-Scientology related information available now if you care to find it. I have to disagree with the "all traces back to..." at this point, especially having known people pretty well who I count as my data points.

You won't find anything backing that theory in any reputable scientific journal. The facts that:

1. Almost nobody on SSRIs is a mass shooter

2. Very few mass shooters were on SSRIs

3. The few mass shooters that were on SSRIs were given them because of pre-existing mental health issues

Should be enough to dispel any idea that SSRIs are a meaningful contributing factor. It would take a lot of picking and choosing of data and statistics to reach any other conclusion.

Personally I have never touched it. I am on the legalize and tax the E36 M3 out of it like they do booze and smokes. Release all the possession charges and treat it like alcohol. You drive f'd up and have a crash your ass is done.

I'm possibly the only person who was raised in Berkeley during the 60s and 70s who has never used weed. But having been around it as much as I have, I believe that it has probably prevented more violence than it's caused. Yes there can be a paranoid response from it, but most people who have reactions like that don't take the stuff.  Can it be a gateway to more destructive drugs? Yes, but big pharma and doctors have probably put more people onto the bad stuff than weed has. 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Even countries with universal health care struggle with incorporating mental health. This is a big world wide problem. 
 

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4516

The Who is trying but I don't think it's effective 

 

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/310981/WHO-MSD-19.1-eng.pdf

 

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing. 

Mental health needs to start at the friends and family level. The local government and hospital systems then need to have programs in place to assist when the need arises. 

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

I agree, but the devils advocate question here is that your view is accurate in the short term. What about long term?

Toyman! said:

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Even countries with universal health care struggle with incorporating mental health. This is a big world wide problem. 
 

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4516

The Who is trying but I don't think it's effective 

 

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/310981/WHO-MSD-19.1-eng.pdf

 

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing. 

Mental health needs to start at the friends and family level. The local government and hospital systems then need to have programs in place to assist when the need arises. 

I couldn't agree more. Step one is to stop making mental health taboo and unspoken. People need help to adapt. Some don't. But stop making those that do seem like lesser people or tell them to "just deal with life."

As my friend's dad told me years ago, "That pot sure takes the wind out of your sails." He was right. Too much of a good thing is usually not that good. I have always said that, "Not everybody should smoke pot, but some people should be forced to." You know who (whom?) I'm talking about. 

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

I'm not trying to hijack the thread.  So please skip if it's too far afield.
     However  my sister has crippling arthritis. That is so bad she's totally bedridden now. To deal with the pain her doctor has her on powerful opioids.  I've heard stories that Marijuana is better at dealing with that crippling pain?   
How valid is that?   PS Marijuana is now legal in Minnesota. 

10 year old Gallup poll.  Since then the number has increased.  If you wanna blame pot for society's ills, you are gonna need to look elsewhere.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/163835/tried-marijuana-little-changed-80s.aspx

VolvoHeretic said:

As my friend's dad told me years ago, "That pot sure takes the wind out of your sails." He was right. Too much of a good thing is usually not that good. I have always said that, "Not everybody should smoke pot, but some people should be forced to." You know who (whom?) I'm talking about. 

Back in the Navy my co-pilot got some Marijuana and I tried a couple of puffs, actually inhailing.  All it did for me is give me a massive headache. 

Frenchy.   Look into CBD.  I believe that is the primary aspect of pot that helps pain.  I don't think the THC part will help much, unless she wants the high.

CBD can easily be had in non-smoking form.  Tinctures etc.

Toyman! said:

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing.

Good thing nobody told this to half of the first-world countries out there with government-run mental health care systems that largely work decently If mass shootings really are primarily a mental health issue, we should actually give them a lot of credit!

mtn said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

I agree, but the devils advocate question here is that your view is accurate in the short term. What about long term?

I've seen nothing to suggest that prolonged pot use predisposes one towards violence. I drink alcohol in moderation, and think that it has done far more harm than pot. How many stories have we all heard of drunken parents beating up their family? How many baked fathers take a belt to their children? 

The main negatives that I see to pot are the sort of impairment that can allow accidents (vehicular/work/domestic) to occur, and that it can drain one's ambition. Oh, and it stinks.

GameboyRMH said:

Toyman! said:

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing.

Good thing nobody told this to half of the first-world countries out there with government-run mental health care systems that largely work decently If mass shootings really are primarily a mental health issue, we should actually give them a lot of credit!

This is the pot thread. The gun thread is over that way somewhere. 

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

The main negatives that I see to pot are the sort of impairment that can allow accidents (vehicular/work/domestic) to occur, and that it can drain one's ambition. Oh, and it stinks.

I wonder about the cause and effect of weed use and low ambition. Is it: Smoke weed --> THC directly atrophies the Ambition Gland(???) --> low ambition, or: finding that you're stuck on a cruel pointless treadmill in today's job market --> low ambition --> might as well smoke weed every day to make your crappy poverty-stricken life feel less awful.

Toyman! said:

GameboyRMH said:

Toyman! said:

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing.

Good thing nobody told this to half of the first-world countries out there with government-run mental health care systems that largely work decently If mass shootings really are primarily a mental health issue, we should actually give them a lot of credit!

This is the pot thread. The gun thread is over that way somewhere. 

 

This is kind of the pot + gun thread:

QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:

Could the increase in mental health issues that result in violence be related to the mass legalization and abuse of marijuana across the United States?

I know it isn't the point of the thread, but is there anyone here who is actually against federal legalization? 

GameboyRMH said:

 

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:
 

They brought it up a decade or two ago, but there is a lot of non-Scientology related information available now if you care to find it. I have to disagree with the "all traces back to..." at this point, especially having known people pretty well who I count as my data points.

You won't find anything backing that theory in any reputable scientific journal. The facts that:

1. Almost nobody on SSRIs is a mass shooter

2. Very few mass shooters were on SSRIs

3. The few mass shooters that were on SSRIs were given them because of pre-existing mental health issues

Should be enough to dispel any idea that SSRIs are a meaningful contributing factor. It would take a lot of picking and choosing of data and statistics to reach any other conclusion.

Yeah I've got a data point right here and it says SSRIs did not make me want to shoot anybody, most notably myself.

Anyway back to weed. 

bobzilla said:

Toyman! said:

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Even countries with universal health care struggle with incorporating mental health. This is a big world wide problem. 
 

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4516

The Who is trying but I don't think it's effective 

 

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/310981/WHO-MSD-19.1-eng.pdf

 

I don't think mental healthcare can be managed at a government level. Anything the government tries to do will be like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. It will also be something that is easily abused. Their incompetence would make whatever they do worse than nothing. 

Mental health needs to start at the friends and family level. The local government and hospital systems then need to have programs in place to assist when the need arises. 

I couldn't agree more. Step one is to stop making mental health taboo and unspoken. People need help to adapt. Some don't. But stop making those that do seem like lesser people or tell them to "just deal with life."

You guys missed the point. It was about access to healthcare without taboo.  No country has found the magic bullet. 

but you jumped right for the government bad line of reasoning.   Rupert Murdoch would be proud
 

good talk. 

Here are some other fun false correlations:

Shymanalan movies have gotten worse as newspaper sales have decreased.

As far as Opiods vs CBD/Pot for pain I can not speak for either for medicinal purposes. 

I can say that anyone who smoked the absolute best weed as a kid when I was a kid but hasn't since we were kids has no clue what today's strains are like. The difference is mind boggling. I don't regularly partake. Possibly once every year to 18 months. Between being in a high injury risk profession and the lack of desire to do it regularly I'm good with it being a rare occasion. 

I know people who are active regular users. I just got to spend a week with four of them during a family vacation where the ability to partake was greatly reduced due to the setting with 6 minor children and my policy of "they can see it at 18." One of the individuals was exceptionally agitated all week long until later evening when they could go smoke. Kelly and I noted it because we are people watchers and thought it was odd as the other three were on a relative mellow most of the day. The oddest part was that irritated person could have used edibles or other methods but needed to have their pipe. It was odd.

That being said I do not expect there is a correct answer but thought it was a great time to explore our great and vast collective fir views.

Beer Baron said:

Here are some other fun false correlations:

Shymanalan movies have gotten worse as newspaper sales have decreased.

Those are awesome.