Slow down out there.

93celicaGT2 wrote: "Yes officer, i was going 65 in a 55mph zone. I'm sorry." That goes a long way. Officer doesn't have to deal with an attitude, and you don't get the third degree, and you can move on with your life after recieving a fine for what law you've broken.

While being honest is admirable, as a strategy you've just admitted guilt. In court you have convicted yourself.

I prefer the advice of "Don't talk. Shut up. Get a lawyer."

Xceler8x wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: "Yes officer, i was going 65 in a 55mph zone. I'm sorry." That goes a long way. Officer doesn't have to deal with an attitude, and you don't get the third degree, and you can move on with your life after recieving a fine for what law you've broken.

While being honest is admirable, as a strategy you've just admitted guilt. In court you have convicted yourself. I prefer the advice of "Don't talk. Shut up. Get a lawyer."

Agreed.... BUT, subscribing to the GASP school of learning myself, if the officer was having a bad enough day to pick ME out of the rest of traffic, i'd rather just pay the $100 ticket than go to court and fight it and pay significantly more. Especially when i can just take a $50 blockbuster course to remove the points from my liscence, or just pay $25 more or whatever to defer the ticket assuming i haven't had any others in recent history.

Taking a day off of work to go to court loses me more money than if i just pay the ticket.

If it's something stupid, then i have no problems fighting the man.

And usually i've found that if i admit guilt, i just get a warning. My buddies with the strategy of "No officer i didn't know i was speeding," or "No, i wasn't speeding," tend to get more actual tickets even when pulled over a similar amount of times.

It really depends on how the officer treats me.

We had this discussion some time back. Our resident Equires said:

(Thug with Gun): Do you know how fast your were going? You: Yes, I do.

(Thug with Gun): (Other questions trying to get you to admit guilt) You: (Keep your mouth shut, or): Am I free to go? (then get ready for lots of little tickets)

And I'm really sure that all those tickets for 26 in a 25MPH zone are about protecting us from the Demon Speeders. Meanwhile the soccer mom in the Dodge 10 ft off my bumper at 78MPH gets ignored.

Driving 25 miles one way to work, and the way I drive... I figure one ticket every three or four years. It's just the cost of working, like snack bar coffee and public restrooms.

I haven't had one in 8 years, so I guess I win.

Dan

derekshannon wrote: Name ONE person that you know that got a ticket for 26 in a 25 or even close.

If you ever drive through here, you better be going the speed limit or less. Otherwise you'll find a Durango with dark tint pull up behind you (or one of their other fine automobiles).

derekshannon wrote: Ever year, almost one-third of motor vehicle fatalities are speed-related.

Speed doesn't kill, it's all that rapid deceleration.

derekshannon wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I'm not pissed. I haven't gotten a ticket in 8 years. I just think speeding laws are in place for the purpose of revenue generation.

I appologize. I had you confused with a different poster. What's the option then? Do we contimue to let speeders endanger the public and in doing so seriously curtail the budget of Law Enforcement or do we just do something crazy like slow the hell down?

I reject your premise. I don't think speeding endangers the public.

As for law enforcement budgets, they should be supported by the municipalities they serve.

Derek, I've seen the tickets for 26 in a 25 myself. More than once. The last time I saw it was here in NW Arkansas when I had a slight mishap resulting in wrapping the MR2 (RIP) around a F150 (Damn F150's). As a side note, I did drive the MR2 home and the F150 was towed. Anyway, in traffic court, I saw case after case of 26 in a 25, how do you plead?... I know right where they were tagged, too, and I make it a point to this day to go about 22MPH through that section of 4 lane highway. So, if'n ya'll are trying to call BS on me, or Strawman or whatever they teach you kids today, DIDN"T WORK. And, I'm callin' Police Sympathizer on you. Wait till you get to court and your armed tax collector just happens to "not remember" anything at all that might be in your favor, but has perfect recall of anything that makes you look bad, including stuff he makes up.

Dr. Hess wrote: Wait till you get to court and your armed tax collector just happens to "not remember" anything at all that might be in your favor, but has perfect recall of anything that makes you look bad, including stuff he makes up.

On the upside, it get's you out of Jury Duty.

"Have you ever felt wronged by a law enforcement officer"

"Yes - the time I was found guilty of a traffic violation, of which I was innocent, on the false testimony of an officer."

"Your honor, the state dismisses this juror."

My friends and I got pulled over twice in under an hour to be searched for drugs. My friend has been pulled over 5 times in the last two years even though he was doing nothing wrong. He hasn't got a ticket but we have been asked about drugs every time. The car in question is a 1988 Lincoln Town Car.

Dr. Hess wrote: Derek, I've seen the tickets for 26 in a 25 myself. More than once. The last time I saw it was here in NW Arkansas when I had a slight mishap resulting in wrapping the MR2 (RIP) around a F150 (Damn F150's). As a side note, I did drive the MR2 home and the F150 was towed.

SO am I reading this right? You berkeleyed up an F150 so bad it had to be towed, and you did it with your MR2 doing 26 miles per hour?

derekshannon wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I reject your premise. I don't think speeding endangers the public. As for law enforcement budgets, they should be supported by the municipalities they serve.

Then you also reject the NHTSA statistics I suppose? I mean afterall, it's not my premise as you mistakenly put it. It's facts. Wait, did you actually mean to write that you don't think speeding endangers the public? Tell my Grampa that when a '69 Firebird rearended his one-week old car in front of my driveway at 7:30 in the morning after over 150 feet of skidmarks and still buckled the roof and pushed his car through a tree and off of another. Tell that to my dad that when a car missed the slight bend on my street and slid across our front lawn and into the car where my brother was sitting (and my dad yanked out the driver and kicked his ass until the neighbors pulled him off him. Tell that to the guy that was speeding in an MR2 and slid sideways about 15ft in front of me (and two friends), caught the curb, barrel-rolled, got ejected and landed head first in the next houses' driveway and died. Tell that to my friend Dave Molan who died in a firey crash after a speeder hit his car on the highway. Tell my local cop friend who got rearended in his cruiser and was airlifted away. Tell that to my two schoolmates that crested the same hill in the first story and slid across my front lawn and rolled almost killing the passenger. I have oh, about 20 more personal stories for you if you still want to stick with that looney statement of yours. That acid you've been tripping on is acting up again. And as for your last point... What will you say when your property taxes are increased to fill that budget? You'll complain then too, I'm sure of it.

Yes, I do reject NHTSA stats. NHTSA has a master to serve, and stats that make speeding look dangerous help to serve that purpose.

Your Grampa wasn't hurt by a speeder. He was hurt by a rear-ender.

Your dad wasn't hurt by a speeder, he was hurt by someone failing to maintain their lane.

The MR2 guys weren't hurt by speeding, they were hurt by losing control of their car.

Dave Molan wasn't killed by a speeder, but by someone hitting his car.

Etc, etc, etc. Speeding doesn't kill, or the airports would be full of dead people because they were just going 600mph.

I don't doubt that you've got stories of speed being involved in crashes, but being the outright cause of them...not so sure. I think it's more the fault of poor judgement, lack of skill, and in most cases you've mentioned: outright stupidity.

There are plenty of times when a speeding ticket is warranted, but I think most of us here are saying that most tickets are given out as a means for the towns or states to make money.

I drive safely, albeit above the posted limit sometimes, I don't complain if I get a ticket if I'm doing something blatently stupid like flying through a neighborhood at 60+ (which I'm smart enough NOT to do)

There is a point between general speeding and what is "reckless" An empty road in the middle of nowhere, no traffic on a sunny day, 15 mph above a silly limit that drops to 25mph from 40 with no warning...$280 ticket....tell me you wouldn't think thats a money grab.

Once, I knew a kid who got into an accident and could not come to school, and a-wheeeennn he finally came back, his..... hair.... had turned from black into bright white.

He said that it was from when the cars had smashed soooooo harrrddd.

Makes a fella go hummm hummm.

derekshannon wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I reject your premise. ...

Then you also reject the NHTSA statistics I suppose?

The NHTSA statistics are primarily derived from police reports. I don't know about Dave, but I'm pretty sure I know where the Doc stands on those. Additionally, 3d party studies/audits of the NHTSA statistics show significant overreporting of speed-relatedness.

Exceeding the posted limit, in and of itself, is not unsafe. If, on a hypothetical road, 30mph is safe (or at least legal) in a fully loaded 18 wheeler on nearly-bald retreads in heavy traffic in the rain, why is 31 in my sports car on high performance summer tires in light traffic on a bright, bright sunshiny day unsafe (or at least illegal).

That said, I realize there are enough nitwits out there that we need to have some standard, and that there are a significant number of LEOs that cannot be trusted to employ any significant degree of judgment in enforcement of a bare "reasonable and prudent" standard (like Wyoming had until fairly recently). Thus, I think the present system (in Texas) has it about right. If you're under the posted speed limit, you're presumed to be operating your vehicle in a reasonable and prudent manner. If you're over, there's a rebuttable presumption that you were not. On my hypothetical above, the presumption should be rebutted.

No point. You don't get it. You're to obtuse to put in the effort.

Actually, in most cases it's not speed that causes it to go off the road, either... it's driver inattention or impairment, followed distantly by mechanical malfunction and then driving too fast for conditions.

No matter what the NHTSA says, we all know what causes accidents: Drunks. People falling asleep. People on the phone. People who just aren't paying attention to what they're doing. Impairment and inattention. That's how people slide into pedestrians. If you're the pedestrian, whether they're going 15 or 50 isn't all that relevant.

derekshannon wrote:

Rustfinger wrote: I don't doubt that you've got stories of speed being involved in crashes, but being the outright cause of them...not so sure. I think it's more the fault of poor judgement, lack of skill, and in most cases you've mentioned: outright stupidity.

Then call it a "stupidity ticket" to wit; excessive speed. Being stupid doesn't cause a car to slide off the road and into pedestrians. The speed of the car did that. I'm pretty sure that physics doesn't care how smart or stupid the driver is.

No, but the inputs at the controls prior to the accidents sure did. The fact that the car was going fast made the accidents worse, but were not the outright cause.

This thread looks to be at the apex of a spiral into oblivion. You have your opinion that cops are doing nothing but making the world safer, and not trying to make money by ticketing. I don't agree with that by any stretch. 'Nuff said.

derekshannon wrote: The only problem with that is that cops can't tell how good a driver you are by looking at you or your car.

I think a GRM bumper sticker might explain it to them

What I'm saying is that, while speed was a factor in the crash that happened in front of your house, it wasn't the cause. The drivers failure to brake from whatever speed he was doing in time to avoid hitting your grandpa was - Thats bad judgement, along with going those speeds in a neighborhood, again, bad judgement.

OK, for a moment I say I agree that speed is the in- disputable cause of all these accidents you list. What would you to do to prevent them?...Mandate goverment installed GPS system on all cars to give a ticket the second you break the posted limit? Surely you must never speed, and this would be acceptable to you, right? I didn't think so.

I DO agree that many out there have no business being behind the wheel of a car, even at 15mph, let alone lethal speeds, but to say that all tickets given are given rightly so...I do not agree, thats all i'm saying.

the road to half-dorkdom is littered with contrariness and insults, it seems.

I could have sworn the national 55 limit was lifted in 97 or 99. But I guess I remember wrong. Is that how long it took to enact after passing? I also remembered some studies showing national average speed did not raise significantly after the lift of the federal law. As in everyone drove the same speed, it was just no longer illegal.

Fascinating info about averaging higher speeds at night, I know I sure slow down. Something about seeing, I like it. And the more fatal speed related male drivers. I don't believe that one. If I'm going to stereotype, I'm betting against the other team.

I have driven on southern CA 5. SCARY. 75-80 mph bumper to bumper. Stupid dangerous to not keep up with traffic but you think in the back of your head 'this is not a controlled environment, I will not be able to react to an emergency.'

I have also had the cruise set on 75 on a open highway out west here and felt comfy. I wouldn't even feel that unsafe in an explorer with under inflated firestones on some of these highways.

My father has a ticket for 56 in a 55. Its real, as in not just hearsay.

I personally do not like laws. If I felt everyone in the world was a moron, and I am the only intelligent one and feel the need to protect them and myself, perhaps I am not that intelligent. I would like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sure there are some ringers out there but over-regulation dumbs you down and loosens your morals. Hows that for a blanket statement?

Even intelligent people have accidents. Watch the carnage at any race. There you have quite a few people out in a controlled environment doing a controlled sport.. their cars are usually in excellant shape (or pass tech) and their abilities and talent are usually above par..

and yet we still have accidents and wrecks on the track.

Part of the skill we have is knowing when and where to press our limits. Honestly, pushing your skill and talent out on public roads is stupid. there is TOO much out of your control. It is not only other cars you need worry about, but pedestrians, bicyclists, animals, road hazards... the public highway and road system is NOT a controlled environment.

That said, we all know the limits we can push. 10 over, going around the corner at or way above the posted recommended limit..

With skill and knowledge hopefully become wisdom.

derekshannon wrote:

Rustfinger wrote: A posted limit of 55mph is purely for revenue generation, safety has nothing to do with it in this day and age.

We have 65mph limits in MA. That means people routinely do 75-80. How many knotheads out there can do a controlled panic stop on a congested highway at those speeds? Whether you're doing 55 or 85, you'll still have people driving only two car-lengths behind you. I'd rather have the crap hit the fan at 55 than 85. BTW, cops don't really care that you're the one-out-of-a thousand that can handle high-speed driving without killing someone. And he sure as hell can't tell by looking at your cool Miata or E30. To him/her, you're just a speeder getting a ticket. And that is sure to hurt some feelings out there. Get over it.

Why should I believe any statistic reported by the NHTSA? They're the ones who stripped the 85th percentile rule from the practice of setting speed limits and turned speed enforcement into a business. Their statistics are lies.

When the Federal Government set up the interstate highway system, some very intelligent folks realized that it was too tempting for mortal men to set speed limits artificially low to enhance revenue. They came up with the 85th percentile rule under the sound assumption that people are generally intelligent enough to drive at a speed that is appropriate for the condition of the road. Do a speed survey, they reasoned, and take the 85th percentile, and set that as the speed limit. (They understood that a minority of drivers will and do drive recklessly, they are the top 15% that remain illegal.) Speed surveys would be done periodically, because as roads were improved or fell into disrepair, or as the technology of automobiles changed, the safe speed may change also. It is a system so flawless in its logic and beautifully simple in its execution that no one could possibly disagree. Later came the NHTSA, with their partner in crime the IIHS. (In case you didn't realize it, The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is essentially a lobbyist group for insurance companies. And in case you're daft, they make their money by charging you increased premiums every time you are in a traffic accident, and more importantly, every time you get a speeding ticket. Their lawyers long ago made a science of screwing you when you actually make a claim, so the only remaining way to increase their bottom lines is to have you get more tickets. The IIHS has no fiscal interest in making the roads safer.) Well, the NHTSA and the IIHS convinced your lawmakers that the 85th percentile rule was wrong; that drivers are inherently unsafe, and that only their all-knowing eye could determine safe speed limits. Law Enforcement agencies who liaise with the NHTSA and IIHS were shown how they could make money while making people think the whole scam was making them "safer." Hell, most of the LEOs doing the dirty work honestly believe they're increasing safety. Meanwhile, the NHTSA's propaganda machine has convinced people that when most of the traffic routinely exceeds the speed limit, that its not an inappropriately low speed limit, which would be absolutely logical and reasonable, instead they convince you that for some reason on this stretch of road, people are driven by some unseen evil to wantonly break the law, and they're probably drinking or doing drugs, too! If only we had MORE cops with a bigger budget to make our roads SAFE again!!!!

Statistics, especially in gov't agencies are used to support that agencies existance. Do you think the NHTSA is going to get to a point where they say "Looks like things are pretty damn safe, lets call it a day" and move on to saving us from something else, like the lack of vitamin D while we sit in front of the computer? Not likely, unless all the preprinted forms run out on the same day. I investigate and write accident reports for a company where most of our vehicles don't hit 35 mph, yet they are all painted white since we can say speed isn't really a factor perhaps the gov't should look at the colors of vehicles involved in accidents. I'd be willing to bet that more white cars trucks buses ect are in accidents than any other color. Maybe the cops should be stopping them before they kill us all. I could come up with a bunch of useless statistics if i go through my accident file and look for them, like it appears Wednesday is the day a taxi is most likely to hit the left rear corner of a stopped bus. From now on wednesday should be no taxi day.