So I found an old military helmet

floatingdoc wrote: I can't help but think of the times when I've seen someone on Antique Roadshow with something that is worth a fraction of it's possible value after they refinished it. The response to this is always the same: "But it was ugly!" I really enjoy this site, but before making a decision, I would consult somewhere else.

My issue with this path- what is the most valuable "patina"?

Does it really add patina if most of what you see is because it's been stored badly since it was last used? A garage find is awesome if that's exactly what it looked like when it was put there- as it has the patina from it's usage.

But any of that added after it was stored- rat holes, rust, dents from stuff falling on it, etc- all that is abuse, not patina.

Other than that, I have nothing to add.

It's the markings on it that makes it what it is and somewhat valuable. Do anything to remove the original markings on it and it would ruin the value.

I inherited something similar. Mom said dad had this dagger before they married in 1957 so I'm guessing he got it when in the navy during the Korean war. He never talked about it or how/when he got it. I looked it up. It is a Solingen German navy dagger from WW2 era but since it doesn't have a swastika would most likely make it slightly before or after. What looks like scroll work on the blade is actually a process called Damascus, each wrinkle is a fold layer of metal. Was interesting to learn all this and find out it is valuable but not interested in selling it as it came from dad who passed in 1998.

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In reply to wlkelley3:

Anchor on the hilt?

alfadriver wrote:

floatingdoc wrote: I can't help but think of the times when I've seen someone on Antique Roadshow with something that is worth a fraction of it's possible value after they refinished it. The response to this is always the same: "But it was ugly!" I really enjoy this site, but before making a decision, I would consult somewhere else.

My issue with this path- what is the most valuable "patina"? Does it really add patina if most of what you see is because it's been stored badly since it was last used? A garage find is awesome if that's exactly what it looked like when it was put there- as it has the patina from it's usage. But any of that added after it was stored- rat holes, rust, dents from stuff falling on it, etc- all that is abuse, not patina. Other than that, I have nothing to add.

I would answer that like this- you can always restore it. You can't unrestore it.

Don't use any modern solvent based anything to clean it. Paint from those days isn't what we have now. It s lacquer/oil based stuff so WD-40 might just wipe that bird off if you wipe a little too hard.

Wiping dirty stuff in general makes scratches. Sand/ dirt is usually quartz one of the hardest naturally​ occuring substances. That isnt something you want to drag across a soft never fully cured lacquer paint.

Compressed air isn't too bad an idea but keep it away from the lining/inside. Keep it light pressure, just enough to blow the loose stuff off not blow the paint off. You want something like keyboard duster pressure or lower.

Keep it out of the sunlight, away from moisture​, extreme temps and kids maybe even hunt for a display case if you want to keep it and pass it on. Pretty cool piece of history!

I'll hit it with some air. Maybe a damp microfiber fiber cloth, but patting instead of rubbing.

A case might not be a bad idea. It's not like I'll put it on the mantle(if anything my ww2 era m1 garand would go on the mantle) but protecting it from future harm is a good idea, and could even be a welding project.

mndsm wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

floatingdoc wrote: I can't help but think of the times when I've seen someone on Antique Roadshow with something that is worth a fraction of it's possible value after they refinished it. The response to this is always the same: "But it was ugly!" I really enjoy this site, but before making a decision, I would consult somewhere else.

My issue with this path- what is the most valuable "patina"? Does it really add patina if most of what you see is because it's been stored badly since it was last used? A garage find is awesome if that's exactly what it looked like when it was put there- as it has the patina from it's usage. But any of that added after it was stored- rat holes, rust, dents from stuff falling on it, etc- all that is abuse, not patina. Other than that, I have nothing to add.

I would answer that like this- you can always restore it. You can't unrestore it.

Ok, but what if it looks like that because of the abusive nature that it was stored?

Again, if I found X as it was just as it was last used- that would be meaningful.

But finding a rusty car, helmet, knife, bike- that is 90% that way because of the crappy conditions it was stored it makes it a POS, not a preservation gem.

To the point that the actual patina is totally lost. How that is worth anything relative to it being restored to new is totally beyond me.

In reply to alfadriver:

I agree. But I'd still rather have patina from storage than the fake patina that people add to things these days to make them look old and weathered. That's the worst.

RevRico, poke around here before you do anything.

dculberson wrote: I understand family memorabilia, and I know it's part of history and that is important to remember, but Nazi stuff always gives me the heebie jeebies. And the kind of person that would buy that from me gives me even more heebie jeebies. It's like buying a knife that was used by Dahmer - creeeeeepy.

Growing up, my father had a WW2 Japanese sword and a machete hanging on the wall he claimed were from his father who served in Burma during WW2. I had no reason to doubt these claims until talking about them later with my mother who after talking with his mother gave reason to question the validity of the story.

Unfortunately, my father was/is prone to delusional stories about his family history...

wlkelley3 wrote: What looks like scroll work on the blade is actually a process called Damascus, each wrinkle is a fold layer of metal.

Having done failure analysis in a metrology lab I find this stuff interesting. Look at how Samurai swords are made, the metal is folded over 400 times! Soft metal core with harder sharpened surface, the line of demarcation in this one is called "Clouds & Rain" (Japanese slang for orgasm).

All this when we were throwing rocks at each other.

don't clean it, dust it.

My mom had a dagger that a male ancestor took off a dead confederate soldier while on Sherman's march. She had it until last week when her storage unit was broken into and looted. Bastards.

TRoglodyte wrote: In reply to wlkelley3: Anchor on the hilt?

Hence Navy, most likely a naval officers dagger.

alfadriver wrote: To the point that the actual patina is totally lost. How that is worth anything relative to it being restored to new is totally beyond me.

If you have a piece of antique furniture that was made in, say, 1810, and refinished / modified in 1920, it is still more valuable unrestored than it would be if you tried to return it to the original finish.

I would dust it with a soft brush (clean paint brush?) and then put it in a plexi display case. No chemicals or anything abrasive against the surface.

Be a nice piece to hand down to the kids/grandkids.

dculberson wrote: I understand family memorabilia, and I know it's part of history and that is important to remember, but Nazi stuff always gives me the heebie jeebies. And the kind of person that would buy that from me gives me even more heebie jeebies. It's like buying a knife that was used by Dahmer - creeeeeepy.

While I fully recognize that I give people the "heebie jeebies" for any number of reasons, I would take exception with equating militaria with a murder weapon. The simple fact is that virtually every nation has been marred by bloodshed, whether consider righteous or unrighteous. Objects are not capable of malice or intent, but they can serve as artifacts and reminders of historical events. I see no difference between a helmet that might have been worn by someone that might have shot at an American or civilian vs a helmet that might have been worn by someone that might have shot at a German or civilian. Owning either helmet doesn't mean you endorse the actions of the soldier or subscribe to the ideology they fought for.

dculberson wrote: I understand family memorabilia, and I know it's part of history and that is important to remember, but Nazi stuff always gives me the heebie jeebies. And the kind of person that would buy that from me gives me even more heebie jeebies. It's like buying a knife that was used by Dahmer - creeeeeepy.

If I could afford to collect things, that would be the kind of stuff it would be. Mostly because of the creepy factor. Dahmers freezer? Charlie's bible? Awesome. But holy E36 M3, you want to see an expensive auction, watch one with serial killer "memorabilia".

But I've always been a bit weird.

I really wish i could find out how this German air force helmet made it to southwest PA, but my dad is gone and I don't talk to my uncle so it wouldn't be easy these days.

The Luftwaffe being the German air force ,only ground crews might wear that helmet.

Is a WW 2 Marine knife in vg condition worth anything ?

In reply to RevRico:

Did your grandfather serve in Europe during WW2? Was friends with someone who did? A lot of soldiers brought back souvenirs from both the European and Pacific theaters.

Ian F wrote: In reply to RevRico: Did your grandfather serve in Europe during WW2? Was friends with someone who did? A lot of soldiers brought back souvenirs from both the European and Pacific theaters.

My grandfather separated his shoulder playing football the week before his unit shipped out to Europe. From what I understand, that saved his life. He was stateside the whole war as a military prison guard, marched prisoners all over the Southeast. My great aunt, the only family member left from that generation, was a navy "nurse" for 30 years. She had a habit of sending post cards from the boat, shortly before we invaded the places on the post card.

My dad got this helmet from an older kid on his street growing up. I probably knew the name of the kid at one point but it's lost to memory. My uncle would probably remember, but as mentioned, we don't speak anymore.

Honestly I feel like I met someone as "this is who that helmet was from" when we were doing commercial construction, but most of our contractors were people my dad grew up with, so that doesn't narrow it down much.

This was in the news today, they uncovered a bunch of Nazi memorabilia in a secret closet in a house in Argentina: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/20/533675156/photos-trove-of-nazi-artifacts-uncovered-in-argentina The box of Nazi harmonicas is pretty weird.

iceracer wrote: The Luftwaffe being the German air force ,only ground crews might wear that helmet. Is a WW 2 Marine knife in vg condition worth anything ?

apparently the luftwaffe had a few divisions of infantry - go figure. For the knife - about anything with wwii history is collectible. Extra points if you can tie it to a person, location, battle, etc.

Ian F wrote: In reply to RevRico: Did your grandfather serve in Europe during WW2? Was friends with someone who did? A lot of soldiers brought back souvenirs from both the European and Pacific theaters.

My grandfather did. He was sent to one of the camps to help clean up at the end.

Found his photo album in my mother's things when I was dealing with her estate.

It's horrifying.

In reply to oldtin: Knife was issued to my brother for protection from marauding Japanese survivors of the battle for Saipan. He was ground crew for B-29s.

He gave it to me sometime after he got home.

Apis Mellifera wrote: While I fully recognize that I give people the "heebie jeebies" for any number of reasons, I would take exception with equating militaria with a murder weapon. The simple fact is that virtually every nation has been marred by bloodshed, whether consider righteous or unrighteous. Objects are not capable of malice or intent, but they can serve as artifacts and reminders of historical events. I see no difference between a helmet that might have been worn by someone that might have shot at an American or civilian vs a helmet that might have been worn by someone that might have shot at a German or civilian. Owning either helmet doesn't mean you endorse the actions of the soldier or subscribe to the ideology they fought for.

I have no problem with general militaria. It's Nazi gear, and things with Nazi regalia on it, that I was equating with a murder weapon. There's just no denying that Nazi imagery has a specific negative association, beyond even just being the usual "bad guys." The holocaust was not a typical wartime activity and anything associated with Nazi Germany wears that baggage and there is no way to separate it. Having Nazi memorabilia on display in your house is a surefire way to make almost everyone that visits very uncomfortable. And many of the ones that aren't made uncomfortable you probably don't want to spend a lot of time around..

It's way different than having any other wartime artifacts, and there's no way around it. Sadly it boils down to "that thing in your house has a swastika on it - are you a neo-Nazi?" I know that's not rational but humans aren't rational.

Edit: And keep in mind this is coming from someone that has had at various times an Electroencephalograph, a German Boy's Choir flag, and a Soviet era paper factory flag complete with hammer and sickle on display in their home as "decorations," in the loosest sense of the word.