So, who is in eastern Ohio/western PA? You guys good? You evacuated?

If you haven't heard, on Feb 3rd a train derailed near East Palestine, Ohio.  It was carrying many tons of hazardous and carcinogenic chemicals, including vinyl chloride.  The powers that be decided to burn the chemicals in order to get rid of them instead of doing an actual cleanup.  As vinyl chloride (itself a very toxic chemical) burns it breaks down into hydrogen chloride, which when mixed with water turns into hydrochloric acid.  It can also break down into phosgene, which gained fame as a chemical weapon during WWI

There are multiple reports of waterways being contaminated and dead water animals all up and down the waterways.  Isolated reports of pets and outdoor animals dying, and all sorts of other horrible things.

So, you guys good?  You get out of the path of that smoke cloud?

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/13/what-we-know-about-ohio-train-derailment

Excuse the music in this, its... over the top

Recall when I was in Mississauga Ontario back in 79 they evacuated the entire city of 250,000 for something like this. 

Holy berk that's bad now and it's going to keep being bad for a lot of decades. 

120 miles Southeast of me.  No immediate concern.  The prevailing winds travel West to East so this will not typically "blow my way."  I do not live on the same watershed as this area so it should not affect my immediate water. 

This is a map of the US Watersheds.  The accident happened in the top right portion of the pink which is the Ohio River Watershed that ultimately is part of the Lower Mississippi watershed.  

I'm unharmed physically and not in harms way. But I can't say the same thing for my mental health at the moment. I'll copy from the rants thread. 
 

"Not so minor rant.. that railroad derailment here in Ohio has polluted the waters of a creek system that is basically my 8 year old's happy place in this world. She absolutely loves Little Beaver Creek and we've been there several times in the last six months despite a three hour drive to get there. I don't even know how I'm going to tell her. Norfolk & Southern also had a derailment next to my office building about 25 years ago, severed our power lines and inundated the ground around our building - fortunately with coconut oil but it could have just as easily been as hazardous as the East Palestine stuff they're spewing. I'm so done with hazardous chemicals being toted around basically unmonitored."

It would be exaggerating - but only a little - to compare this to telling the average eight year old that someone has destroyed Disney World because they wanted more money. Maybe this will seem less overwhelming on more sleep but this isn't going to be easy

Well, I heard tonight that they have found some of the contaminants in the Ohio River here in Cincinnati!

In a clever move fit for a SciFi movie, they've decided that blotting out the sky with poisonous gas is an ideal way to prevent spy balloons/UFOs from seeing the ground below.

Another one down in Texas, although an 18 wheeler was involved. Starting to wonder if our rail lines are as high quality and well maintained as our bridges and roads. 

In reply to RevRico :

Most of the rails are owned by the railroads and they improved how they tackle maintenance and upkeep although anything can happen.  

Years ago when fracking in Williston, ND was riding high Amtrak kept getting bumped to wait for the BNSF freight trains and most all the runs to Glacier NP ran late  

From what I've heard, it's not good over at Pitt International raceway. Which is about 5 miles away as the crow flies. 

Datsun310Guy said:

Years ago when fracking in Williston, ND was riding high Amtrak kept getting bumped to wait for the BNSF freight trains and most all the runs to Glacier NP ran late  

Still does. I took the empire builder cross country last summer. We got delayed several times for other freight on the track and it's the norm. Commercial freight trains have the right of way in 99.9% of every imaginable situation. 

Reading the Ohio governors response he put the trust in the EPA, that this is not bad (hard to believe the EPA). I wish the passion from Hollywood would attack diaster such as this rather then a hidden political agenda. This would be a disaster for Pittrace if they have to shutdown, I don't see anything on their website.

trigun7469 said:

.....I wish the passion from Hollywood would attack diaster such as this rather then ......

The silence (and/or very low volume) from the media is shocking.

There are a number of questions that need to be answered, some of which are:

• What's the root cause of the accident?
• Is the cause coincidental with the timing of the recent rail workers strike and government intervention to get them back to work?
• The wreck happened over 10 days ago, why is it that I only first heard of it here on GRM? (lack of media coverage?)
• Why wasn't there a hazardous spill response plan in place for this?  and why did it fail so miserably?
• Why the "controlled" burn instead of a proper "dig and clean up"
• So much hype about carbon foot print reduction, but this exponentially worse disaster barely gets a peep?

Somebody's head should roll for this.  I'm not sure who, and how many heads yet, but this is a colossal failure that will have lasting generational ramifications.

In reply to Indy - Guy :

I too learned about on GRM. I knew Raianna was pregnant (via the algorithm) before I knew about this...in my own state. 

I'm not sure what that says about media and I'm not sure what it says about me. 

I heard about it on Reddit the day after, though we don't watch any local news shows.

Good questions but who said there was no disaster plan? I have a friend who worked for a railroad disaster contractor. I learned a lot during the time he had that job. What I can say is that I guarantee the railroad has a record of what's on board as well as a written plan what to do in case of emergency. I imagine local fire departments have a number to call for guidance also. 

..but like Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".

In this case some nasty E36 M3 spilled after a major derailment. Decisions were quickly made by humans about how to contain the problem. There is a very good chance some of those decisions weren't perfect.  

Hopefully the cleanup aligns with the scale of the problem. Unfortunately I won't be shocked when profits take precedence over things like ecology and people and animals. They always do.

Local media is covering it. I don't read much national news, but it's in the Dispatch (Columbus newspaper) and on 10tv and channel 4 local news stations. It's not being ignored but it sure doesn't seem to register compared to a lot of less important things.

John Welsh said:

In reply to Indy - Guy :

I too learned about on GRM. I knew Raianna was pregnant (via the algorithm) before I knew about this...in my own state. 

I'm not sure what that says about media and I'm not sure what it says about me. 

Really?  NPR has been reporting on the accident pretty much daily since it happened.  Including the environmental impact potential. 

I don't think there is any conspiracy to bury it. Nobody died.  Therefore it's not news. 

I just have such a hard time imagining that a rational human being thinks 'fireball hundreds of feet in the air' is the solution to hazardous chemical spill.

In their rush to ensure their workers don't feel the need to try and have a life away from their labors, Norfolk Southern inadvertently gave sick days to an untold number of Americans. Thankfully, the impact on profit is expected to be short-lived. 

Mr_Asa said:

...The powers that be decided to burn the chemicals in order to get rid of them instead of doing an actual cleanup. ...

I am not sure this is a realistic assessment of the situation.

I believe the actual reason it was vented and burnt was because vinyl chloride quickly turns into a gas and is heavier than air and is also very explosive.  There apparently was a danger of the cars exploding(?), so they vented it(?).  I did not hear they lit it on fire, but again, having a large amount of highly explosive gas crawling over the ground is certainly a recipe for disaster so that is actually reasonable (?)

I am not sure, after the accident happened, there are any truly "good" solutions.

Vinyl chloride is used to create PVC, so it's a very heavily produced chemical (PVC BTW is entirely stable)

Flash point of -108deg F !!!!

In the U.S., OSHA lists vinyl chloride as a Class IA Flammable Liquid, with a National Fire Protection Association Flammability Rating of 4. Because of its low boiling point, liquid VCM will undergo flash evaporation (i.e., autorefrigerate) upon its release to atmospheric pressure. The portion vaporized will form a dense cloud (more than twice as heavy as the surrounding air). The risk of subsequent explosion or fire is significant. According to OSHA, the flash point of vinyl chloride is −78 °C (−108.4 °F).[14] Its flammable limits in air are: lower 3.6 volume% and upper 33.0 volume%. The explosive limits are: lower 4.0%, upper 22.05% by volume in air. Fire may release toxic hydrogen chloride (HCl) and carbon monoxide (CO).[15] VCM can polymerise rapidly due to heating and under the influence of air, light and contact with a catalyst, strong oxidisers and metals such as copper and aluminium, with fire or explosion hazard. As a gas mixed with air, VCM is a fire and explosion hazard. On standing, VCM can form peroxides, which may then explode. VCM will react with iron and steel in the presence of moisture.[5][16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

The demographics are very low around 4000 population regionally, but if it happened in Cleveland, Akron, or even a Canton (similar population to Flint). It's not considered a disaster with 1000's of deaths it's really like Flint where there are short and longterm effects, if it's farm land, will the food be served on your table. Today's NPR article down plays summing it up that contact your medical provider if you are sick and clean & vacuum your house.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

John Welsh said:

In reply to Indy - Guy :

I too learned about on GRM. I knew Raianna was pregnant (via the algorithm) before I knew about this...in my own state. 

I'm not sure what that says about media and I'm not sure what it says about me. 

Really?  NPR has been reporting on the accident pretty much daily since it happened.  Including the environmental impact potential. 

I don't think there is any conspiracy to bury it. Nobody died.  Therefore it's not news. 

This has been my experience too. Lots of reporting the day of and then a day or two after the release then just about nothing. I honestly had mostly forgotten about it until friends from elsewhere starting texting asking if we are OK. Maybe it just took that long to become national news?

A report on NPR stated that from the pictures the tanks are vinyl chloride, not poly vinyl chloride which was initially reported. Both are bad, the latter about 1000 times worse than the former. Like a hazardous amount is in the range of 10ppm. Byproducts of burning vinyl chloride can be phosgene and hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid when sent airborne latches to moisture in the air and will absolutely rain hell on someone's day. 

Cause looks to be related to axle failure. A video from 20 miles before the accident sight shows a wheel on fire. 

I am sorry for anyone who is dealing with this first hand. It has got to be terrible. 

triumph7 said:

Well, I heard tonight that they have found some of the contaminants in the Ohio River here in Cincinnati!

I've been keeping an eye on it, although here on the right side of the river we get our supply from the Licking, I believe.  About an hour ago, wlwt put out an article that says they're keeping an eye on it but haven't found anything here yet: https://www.wlwt.com/article/east-palestine-train-derailment-ohio-river-water-quality/42885837