Going. As in going to the gym. Going is key for me. When I "go to the gym" I have a target and time and all that comitment stuff. This is huge for me.

Setting a schedule. I set up a plan, and try very hard to stick to it. It's like going to work. This way it actually gets done. As opposed to coming home, relaxing, and thinking about mowing the grass. Amazing the things you can put off until tomorrow that way. Exercise is no different for me.

I use the cardio machines quite a bit. I also run, when it's nice and I feel like it. But running is hard on the knees. The eliptical machines on the other hand, I can do them easily. Same several others. I've got some I like and tend to use. The treadmill and I do not get along, so I don't use it.

Learning to exercise with sanity also helped. We all think we should run hard and fast, be it on a machine or a running trail. That usually just means you hurt yourself and don't get fit or lose weight. Learning to use the heart rate as a control, and to set the machines and my own pace accordingly lets me keep on going, day in and day out.

Change things around. I get bored. So sometimes I rearange things for varieties sake.

Take some of the classes. It's fun. Some really make you sweat and breath hard. That silly stepping class for example. Sure, it's easy with one block. Now try it with two or three!

And if I can say it politely, I think you're substantially under calculating your food intake. This was big for me. Between portion sizes, the amount of sneakage, and what I was eating (weight watchers points), it was no wonder I weighed so much. Really, I had no idea, and I thought I knew stuff about food.

In reply to foxtrapper:

Running is hard on the knees for three reasons.

1. Most people run on pavement. < No no. Go offroad.

2. The human body really isn't designed for long distance running. Sprinting and walking. Going hiking with a weighted pack would work better than running your ass down 20 miles of road.

3. Most running shoes have you hitting the ground heel first instead of on the balls of your feet.

In reply to Osterkraut:

You Assume that all protein comes from animal, which it doesn't. As for your science, try some of mine (note some of the same sources you use ):

Lower cancer rates

U of Chicago

ADA on ABC

Here's my schedule:
Wake up at 4am - quick shower/shave
Leave house at 4:45am
Arive at gym at 5:30am
In gym until 7:00-7:30am, lift weights and run
Go to work (5 blocks away)
Work until 4:15pm
Home at 5:00pm
Run the kids to dance/wrestling/soccer, etc...
Bed by 9:30pm

I eat all throughout the day. All my meals are planned to make sure I get a balance of carbs/fats/protein. For instance, eat some quick digesting carbs and some protein before hitting the gym, and have a protein shake with some slow carbs immediately after.

By the way, not sure running is bad for your knees. I have long standing knee issues. Been to several othro docs over the years, my current one is a team physician for one of the major sports teams in Philly. I'm told studies have shown no direct link to running and knee problems. Some studies actually suggest running will strengthen the knee (assuming you have the right shoes, etc...). Since I started running 5 years ago, I have less trouble than I had for 15 years before it.

Javelin wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: You *Assume* that all protein comes from animal, which it doesn't. As for your science, try some of mine (note some of the same sources you use ): Lower cancer rates U of Chicago ADA on ABC

A ha! YOU assume I even care about the source of protein! Please note I did not! If you can get 30% of your caloric intake from plant protein, that's great. The thing is, you said watch out for the high protein "crazies," without specifying source.

Also, what the berkeley are you linking me? The Eshel study (which I've read), isn't about HUMAN health, it's "save the planet save ourselves" stuff. They don't even mention weight once in the article you linked! Come on now, you're better than that. Your one source even remotely related to weight loss is from ABC News! That article is useless anyway, as it compares a vegan diet to the "ADA diet" which isn't exactly high in protein... Dude, did you even read those articles you pulled off the first page of Google?

I run on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and lift on Tuesday and Thursday.

I run about 15-20 miles a week give or take.

My workout is based around an hour, and is usually right around that +/- 10-15 minutes.

I do it either before or after work depending what my schedule looks like and what my sleep has been like.

I've never seen a fat tweaker FWIW.

I run 30 mi a week. I do the arms/shoulders and chest/back DVD's from P90X when I feel like it. I wish I could do the yoga one but I'm afraid I'll shatter. I take the kids on hiking death-marches for a couple hours on weekends when the woods aren't full of orange hats looking to shoot a guy wearing a backpack. Sometimes I get the flu which is the single greatest weight loss diet ever.

Hope this helps. Oh and Evan Williams is fat free so you are good there.

Oh, as for what I do: I limit myself to about 2000 calories a day, and I ref about 9 hockey games over the weekends. Come with the new year, I'll play hockey every Sunday (taking it down to about 5 hockey games reffed) and play every Tuesday morning.

I also plan on starting to work out somewhat. Nothing too regimened though.

Grizz wrote: In reply to foxtrapper: Running is hard on the knees for three reasons. 1. Most people run on pavement. < No no. Go offroad. 2. The human body really isn't designed for long distance running. Sprinting and walking. Going hiking with a weighted pack would work better than running your ass down 20 miles of road. 3. Most running shoes have you hitting the ground heel first instead of on the balls of your feet.

3 is the biggest reason, get some minimalist shoes and the rest falls in the place. The human body is built to run.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Hope this helps. Oh and Evan Williams is fat free so you are good there.

But it is not calorie free. Weight loss happens when calories in < calories out. Scientific fact.

mtn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Hope this helps. Oh and Evan Williams is fat free so you are good there.

But it is not calorie free. Weight loss happens when calories in < calories out. Scientific fact.

Scientific fact: You can eat whatever the berkeley you want without gaining a pound, so long as you use the energy from it.

Get younger. Not possible? Then get more active.

Grizz wrote:

mtn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Hope this helps. Oh and Evan Williams is fat free so you are good there.

But it is not calorie free. Weight loss happens when calories in < calories out. Scientific fact.

Scientific fact: You can eat whatever the berkeley you want without gaining a pound, so long as you use the energy from it.

Yes, you just restated what I said using different words.

Streetwiseguy wrote: And keep on drinking. These pansys just don't understand.

You have never been more right

There are a lot of different ways to go about it, and a lot of different ways to argue it, but it is not much more complicated than calories in, and calories out (Edit: I see you guys beat me to it while I was posting)

I don't like cardio for weight loss, or conditioning. I think it's very popular because it's easy. Unfortunately, most people that do it don't lose much if any weight, and don't change their conditioning significantly because they don't do enough of it. Cardio is excellent if you use it to supplement a good weight routine. Weights is as good or better than cardio for losing weight, and you're building muscle at the same time, which will make you better at whatever sports you're interested in.

Buy a motocross bike, and ride it 3 times a week. It's not boring, and you won't be out of shape for long if you do it right.

mtn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Hope this helps. Oh and Evan Williams is fat free so you are good there.

But it is not calorie free. Weight loss happens when calories in < calories out. Scientific fact.

Beer is fat free. Chicken wings are sugar free. I think your science is broken.

I suggest upping the amphetamines. Problem solved.

Javelin wrote: I know this will bring out the nay-sayers, but here it goes: Vegetarian. No supplements, no vitamins, etc. I'll answer any questions, and hopefully the "you must have protein!" crazies will stay quiet.

Please explain what you eat and how much? I'm seriously interested. Got what your typical day/week looks like from a food standpoint?
I've don't know if I could ever go vegetarian but I do know that the healthy eating principles can be augmented or modified to accomidate deliscious chicken, lean beef, pork and other animals that went through the trouble of eating all those veggies for me so I don't have to.

I've just kinda stabilized with the type and quantity of food I eat and am staying fairly constant in weight all be it high.

In reply to Osterkraut:

Well, thanks for proving my point (crazy). The ABC link is reporting on an ADA study published in a respected nutrition journal, so yeah, I read them. And yes, it is easy to still get 30% of your calories from protein even on an all or mostly plants diet.

But hey, whatever shouting and arm-waving you need to do to get attention. All I know for sure is March = bacon, steak, and 235 pounds of FAT; December = pasta, fruits, and 185 pounds of healthy. (Plus I discovered portabella shroom burgers)

mtn wrote: Yes, you just restated what I said using different words.

Yes, I restated what you said using different words.

Boredom is not being my friend today.

I'm an arborist so I get paid to work out. Two to four hours on a tree and the upper body is blasted.

Swim 30 150' laps almost every night in a salt water pool. Slow and relaxed. No caffein, alcohol on a limited social level. I do grow and vaporize my own organic weed, though - it's legal here. Hey, I'm a horticulturalist! Makes me sleep like a baby and keeps me mellow.

I eat pretty healthy, try to maintain an above 7 acid/alkilin level. 57 years old, same basic measurements as high school/Marine Corps; 6'2", 185. 42 resting bpm. Guess I'm pretty fortunate.

Javelin wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: Well, thanks for proving my point (crazy). The ABC link is *reporting* on an ADA study published in a respected nutrition journal, so yeah, I read them. And yes, it is easy to still get 30% of your calories from protein even on an all or mostly plants diet. But hey, whatever shouting and arm-waving you need to do to get attention. All I know for sure is March = bacon, steak, and 235 pounds of FAT; December = pasta, fruits, and 185 pounds of healthy. (Plus I discovered portabella shroom burgers)

News "reports" on studies tend to warp them massively, pretty common knowledge.

If you've got nothing else but anecdotes to back up your claims, we're done here.

I'm not anti running at all. I do it, and kinda love it when I go, especially when I get in the grove.

I am willing to say I don't recommend just going out running for an out of shape and overweight individual. That's a good recipe for injury. Especially with our tendancies to overdo things by running too long or too hard, or both.

Getting into generic "shape" on a cardio machine is far gentler and less injury prone. And therefore more likely to be successfull.

By all means, run if one likes to do so. Just learn to run well so you don't hurt yourself.

Zomby Woof wrote: Buy a motocross bike, and ride it 3 times a week. It's not boring, and you won't be out of shape for long if you do it right.

I want to take up this workout. That sounds like fun.

Logistically, I'm afraid it's not such a drop-in replacement for what I've got...

Javelin wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: Well, thanks for proving my point (crazy). The ABC link is *reporting* on an ADA study published in a respected nutrition journal, so yeah, I read them. And yes, it is easy to still get 30% of your calories from protein even on an all or mostly plants diet. But hey, whatever shouting and arm-waving you need to do to get attention. All I know for sure is March = bacon, steak, and 235 pounds of FAT; December = pasta, fruits, and 185 pounds of healthy. (Plus I discovered portabella shroom burgers)

Shroom burgers are tasty, but nothing makes me balloon up like a fat tub of lard like pasta and carbs in general.

Zomby Woof wrote: Buy a motocross bike, and ride it 3 times a week. It's not boring, and you won't be out of shape for long if you do it right.

That's the truth. I had a friend back in high school/college that pretty much hated sports, hated working out, and ate more than anyone I knew at the time. But he lived out in the country a bit and he and his dad built a motocross track in their back yard, and when he was bored he'd go out and do laps or run some trails in the woods. The dude had zero fat on him and would DESTROY everyone when we had to do those physical fitness tests in gym class.

That being said I could also stand to lose a few, but have zero time right now, and already eat mostly vegetarian (which did help quite a bit).

nocones wrote:

Javelin wrote: I know this will bring out the nay-sayers, but here it goes: Vegetarian. No supplements, no vitamins, etc. I'll answer any questions, and hopefully the "you must have protein!" crazies will stay quiet.

Please explain what you eat and how much? I'm seriously interested. Got what your typical day/week looks like from a food standpoint? I've don't know if I could ever go vegetarian but I do know that the healthy eating principles can be augmented or modified to accomidate deliscious chicken, lean beef, pork and other animals that went through the trouble of eating all those veggies for me so I don't have to. I've just kinda stabilized with the type and quantity of food I eat and am staying fairly constant in weight all be it high.

Sure! Let's see, yesterday was hot wheat cereal for breakfast, glass of OJ, two homemade cinnamon pumpkin muffins, a banana, whole grain rice with an African dish (deit w'et or something like that? It was a new recipe, had tomatoes, spices, barley, onions, garlic, etc in it) for lunch, an apple at work for the afternoon snack, a handful of raisins and almonds, and dinner was homemade "meatballs" (TVP, onion, spices) with roasted brussel sprouts and cornbread. Desert was a little dark chocolate. I drank water all day and had two mugs of fresh hot tea (I do organic black tea).

Typical breakfasts include stone-ground oats, polenta, grits, etc. We try and do some fruit on the side (picked all summer so we have a freezer full of peaches, berries, etc). Snacks are fresh fruit from whatever is in season (mandarin oranges right now!) like kiwi, grapefruit, apples, etc. We do a lot of home baking and use good ingredients (pure cane sugar, whole-grains, etc). Lunches are typically the leftovers of last night's dinner, but we also do sandwiches (the Tofurkey brand lunch "meats" are good), wraps, and burritos. Speaking of burritos, dinner is very typical American fare. I love the Boca brand "Chk'n" like the burgers and nuggets. We do a lot of Mexican (using dried beans to make our own beans and refried beans) like burritos, tacos, and tamales. I also like to grill tofu (the trick is to get extra firm and press all of the water out of it first) and wrap that in a tortilla with rice, a little melted jack cheese, and some green Tabasco. We also do a lot of pasta dishes. My favorite for football day is Gardein "Buffalo Wings", they taste like and have the same texture as the real thing.

We got in a rut for dinner so we bought a cookbook and are doing every recipe in order, which has actually been really fun. There's been some duds, but a lot of things that were outside my comfort zone (like the African dish) are actually really good. We do a mean cheater Pad Thai, too.

As for missing the flavor of meat, it's all in spices. Have you ever eaten meat just cooked straight with no salt, rub, or anything (especially on propane)? It's bland. Some science studies show that humans can't chemically taste meat protein, either. Anyway, you can do all the same sauces, spice rubs, and marinades on the meat substitutes as you can on meat. So a lot of my favorite recipes pretty much ported right over.

If you're on the west coast, seek out a chain called "Veggie Grill", it's like a vegan Applebee's, it's insanely good. That'll give you an idea of how meat-like the fake stuff can be. Plus, onion rings!