State Farm Insurance is WATCHING!

I know its a (mostly) moot point but don't try and use a GPS on anything faster than 1152MPH (515 metres per second) as all commercail units are disabled above this in order to be exempt from classification as a munition.

Ottawa

Aeromoto wrote:

mndsm wrote:

pilotbraden wrote: I would like to put that device on an airplane, to get some impossible numbers and see how they react. It would probably turn into an expensive nightmare.

I had heard rumor of a guy doing this with a device like that that was GPS based, and got on a commercial flight with it. The insurance wanted to know how the hell he was going 600mph.

Well again, I'd say the rumor is 100% bullsheet unless the aircraft had an OBD II to plug into

N Sperlo wrote:

Are you suggesting plugging this nanny into a computer and writing program that spits out OBD-II speed/brake/turn information in a way that would suggest that you drive to work at a speed very close to that of light, while braking and cornering at G-force levels that would liquify the contents of the OBD vehicle?

Because if you are, that's freaking BRILLIANT.

Some of them use no OBD interface, just GPS data, so the aircraft story is plausible.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Unlikely, but plausible. They more than likely need to be plugged in for power.

And, Peter..... Umm, yea. Thats it exactly!

I like the fact that we're all trying to think of ways to give the GPS box a nervous breakdown, not how to make it think we're all reasonable citizens.

You could crack the box open and connect the GPS chipset input and OBD2 inputs to a spoofer box, it would be a lot of software development work, but you could make yourself look like the reasonable granny who cruises along obliviously and has no high-G/sharp braking events, and not the reckless maniac who dodges her.

The other option is much more complicated...you know how Iran claims they brought down the Sentinel drone? That technique would be part of it, and it's quite illegal to operate GPS spoof transmitters.

This would probably generate some interesting g-forces.

I would also recommend a demolition derby.

GameboyRMH wrote: You could crack the box open and connect the GPS chipset input and OBD2 inputs to a spoofer box, it would be a lot of software development work, but you could make yourself look like the reasonable granny who cruises along obliviously and has no high-G/sharp braking events, and not the reckless maniac who dodges her.

I see a entreprenurial opportunity here. The did it with radar detectors and laser jammers...you software guys need to get on this.

They could kill it off by tamper-proofing the box, some embedded trigger wire filaments + holo stickers = no tampering. Some already use encrypted storage.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Most of us probably gave up on the notion of being a reasonable citizen quite a while ago.

N Sperlo wrote: I wonder if he knew he broke a federal law that could cost him $25,000.00.

Citation required. I doubt you'll find one because I just checked and in 91.21, no specific mention of personal GPS devices. GPS, being a receive-only system, is good to go unless expressly banned by the airline.

Ottawa wrote: I know its a (mostly) moot point but don't try and use a GPS on anything faster than 1152MPH (515 metres per second) as all commercail units are disabled above this in order to be exempt from classification as a munition. Ottawa

I must know how you discovered this.

SR-71 driver?

GameboyRMH wrote: They could kill it off by tamper-proofing the box, some embedded trigger wire filaments + holo stickers = no tampering. Some already use encrypted storage.

if it plugs into the OBD2 port.. it has to be removable for working on the car and for inspection purposes.. the spoofer would just have to sit between the port and the dongle

Keith Tanner wrote: I like the fact that we're all trying to think of ways to give the GPS box a nervous breakdown, not how to make it think we're all reasonable citizens.

Well, once you've convinced the damn thing it's travelling at 299,792,457 m/s, it's a piece of cake to convince it it's only doing 25mph...

peter wrote:

N Sperlo wrote:

Are you suggesting plugging this nanny into a computer and writing program that spits out OBD-II speed/brake/turn information in a way that would suggest that you drive to work at a speed very close to that of light, while braking and cornering at G-force levels that would liquify the contents of the OBD vehicle? Because if you are, that's freaking BRILLIANT.

Brilliant is hooking that up to show you as driving like a l'il ol' man, while driving normally and saving money. berkeley the man.

Osterkraut wrote:

N Sperlo wrote: I wonder if he knew he broke a federal law that could cost him $25,000.00.

Citation required. I doubt you'll find one because I just checked and in 91.21, no specific mention of personal GPS devices. GPS, being a receive-only system, is good to go unless expressly banned by the airline.

Here is a copy of my old faithful GPS unit. I has been many places around this country and during those travels it has come out and on while in a window seat. The max speed of 656 mph was over Iowa while traveling from Irvine, CA to Chicago, IL.
It is very handy and entertaining to zoom in and out while traveling by plane. See a river? Find out the name. See a city, etc.
I have read all the fine print in all the inflight magazines and while only a few airlines name it as an approved device, non of them list it as a forbidden device.

Who knows if an OBD2 device can be spoofed but if it is just GPS based like a Garmin...

peter wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I like the fact that we're all trying to think of ways to give the GPS box a nervous breakdown, not how to make it think we're all reasonable citizens.

Well, once you've convinced the damn thing it's travelling at 299,792,457 m/s, it's a piece of cake to convince it it's only doing 25mph...

Yeah, but it's so much more fun to make it freak out.

Javelin wrote:

Ottawa wrote: I know its a (mostly) moot point but don't try and use a GPS on anything faster than 1152MPH (515 metres per second) as all commercail units are disabled above this in order to be exempt from classification as a munition. Ottawa

I *must* know how you discovered this.

Knowing Ottawa's background, yeah - he'd know that. Although it's not liable to be an issue for any of us, that's about Mach 1.5.

GameboyRMH wrote: They could kill it off by tamper-proofing the box, some embedded trigger wire filaments + holo stickers = no tampering. Some already use encrypted storage.

I know some nerds that would be able to crack that nonsense in a couple weeks time. These insurance companies aren't going to invent some new code that is uncrackable, and if it saves a nerd some $ and they already know how to crack, you can bet they'd be more than willing to spend their free time to crack their encryption algorithms .

Keith Tanner wrote: Knowing Ottawa's background, yeah - he'd know that. Although it's not liable to be an issue for any of us, that's about Mach 1.5.

Well for most it isn't an issue....

DirtyBird222 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: They could kill it off by tamper-proofing the box, some embedded trigger wire filaments + holo stickers = no tampering. Some already use encrypted storage.

I know some nerds that would be able to crack that nonsense in a couple weeks time. These insurance companies aren't going to invent some new code that is uncrackable, and if it saves a nerd some $ and they already know how to crack, you can bet they'd be more than willing to spend their free time to crack their encryption algorithms .

You'd be right if not for the wire filament tamper-proofing. Breach the case, trash the goodies inside. Militaries use it to keep devices with onboard encryption keys out of enemy hands.

And getting keys from a device that has them onboard somehow is one thing, cracking encryption algorithms is a whole different thing. This isn't jokey consumer DRM.

So plug one in and do the Silver State Classic. It's a legal event on a regular road. Yes, I'm sure my insurance is void during the event, so the data of me doing it should be void too.

GameboyRMH wrote: You'd be right if not for the wire filament tamper-proofing. Breach the case, trash the goodies inside. Militaries use it to keep devices with onboard encryption keys out of enemy hands. And getting keys from a device that has them onboard somehow is one thing, cracking encryption algorithms is a whole different thing. This isn't jokey consumer DRM.

If it is indeed getting all of its data from OBD-II, you can forget all that: you control the signals going in, you can tell the box whatever you like. GPS you'd realistically need in-the-box access...

I'm willing to bet that at this stage, they haven't even begun to think about tamper proofing or encryption. Even if they did, I'm guessing they'd (mis)use crap "encryption" until exposed as idiots.

I don't have insurance with any of these carriers, but if any of you want to get phone calls from extremely confused insurance agents, please feel free to mail me one of these (if it's OBD-II).

my State Farm agent knows exactly what I do with my CRX and is totally ok with it