1988RedT2 said:Grumpy old man says: Sure, this guy's dangerous to others and himself, but no more so than any hormone-saturated teenager that ever got behind the wheel, hopped up on goofballs and looking to set a land speed record every time he drives to the convenience store for more beer.
Grumpy millennial says that the old fart is more dangerous than the teen. Teen has far better eyesight and reaction time. And the old man is far more likely to be intoxicated and driving for more beer.
My memere never got her driver's license... Like, she just never had one. She had a neighbor, Hazel, who'd take memere (and us kids) grocery shopping once a week. She had a full sized 15 passenger Ford Van, and the back 3 benches were stacked to the ceiling with junk and crap (she was a flea market regular)... This worked pretty well up until Hazel got to 85. By then, her sight was getting bad, so memere would make me sit in the front seat and tell Hazel when to stop and go as she couldn't see the lights or signs anymore. Back then, it didn't feel super scary, but now I look back and am like... what the hell were we doing!? Haha.
Ultimately, she had an accident that totalled her van at 87, and the police took her license. I'd run her for groceries and she'd pay me $2 for my troubles, haha. She was a sweet old woman who live to 97, and still had every marble she was born with. Sharp as a whip, her.
1988RedT2 said:Grumpy old man says: Sure, this guy's dangerous to others and himself, but no more so than any hormone-saturated teenager that ever got behind the wheel, hopped up on goofballs and looking to set a land speed record every time he drives to the convenience store for more beer.
Nope, sorry, wrong answer.
Teenagers can be bad drivers, very true.
But a teenager may notice an impending issue and have the reaction time to avoid it.
The elderly folk serenely piloting their ocean liners through the sea of traffic as if they are the only ones on the road are never even going to notice the accident until it happens.
OP, try getting adult social services involved.
Duke said:The elderly folk serenely piloting their ocean liners through the sea of traffic as if they are the only ones on the road are never even going to notice the accident until it happens.
South Florida in a nutshell ... and they are all from NY.
@914Driver:
Maybe you need to find one of those "Del Boca Vista" brochures and drop it in his mailbox.
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
But impaired vision, cognition, and reaction time ain't gonna overcome anything.
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.
Duke said:1988RedT2 said:Grumpy old man says: Sure, this guy's dangerous to others and himself, but no more so than any hormone-saturated teenager that ever got behind the wheel, hopped up on goofballs and looking to set a land speed record every time he drives to the convenience store for more beer.
Nope, sorry, wrong answer.
Teenagers can be bad drivers, very true.
But a teenager may notice an impending issue and have the reaction time to avoid it.
The elderly folk serenely piloting their ocean liners through the sea of traffic as if they are the only ones on the road are never even going to notice the accident until it happens.
It's always funny to hear young people use this bit of fantasy whenever this argument comes up. Problem is, it's not diminished senses like vision or hearing that are the primary cause of accidents. It's bad judgement.
But don't take my word for it. Let's look at the cost of insurance vs. age, shall we?
https://www.policygenius.com/auto-insurance/average-car-insurance-rates-by-age-and-gender/
Drivers 55 to 60 have the lowest cost to insure. Rates do tick up a bit after age 65, but that is offset by the fact that old people drive less.
That said, there surely is an age when an old-timer with diminished facilities needs to put down the keys, but I'm tired of you young-uns with your arrogant heads up your diaper-swaddled behinds trying to assert that your wild asshattery actually makes the roads a safer place.
The other day as I pulled into Goodwill, an older guy was struggling to park his CRV in a spot that was too tight for his entry. He tried doing the ol'u-turn from the travel lane into the closest spot thing. He was half-way into the spot when he thought he couldn't make the full swing.
I quickly snuck behind him (his reverse lights were not on) and parked (pull-through in empty area of the lot), got the family out of the car, and he had just finished parking.
As we entered the store I heard him mumble "you people need to learn to drive." I politely apologized.
I didn't want to tell him he should learn to park.
I drive quickly because I know what I'm doing and where I'm going. I'm interested in efficiency. Just because you're slow and careful doesn't mean I'm not just because I'm intentional and decisive. Am I impatient? Sure. But there are other times when I'm in no rush (I hate waiting in queues.)
I think this is easier to do in places where you can walk to services or take public transport. Our country and its size and car dependence makes this so hard.
Uber and Lyft have made this MUCH easier in this day and age, but it is still a difficulty where there isnt much population and there isnt the infrastructure of public transit.
Been going through it with my mom, thankfully, pointing out that shes on a fixed income and cant really afford the maintenance and insurance on a car and live where she wasnts to live got us through it.
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.
We've gotten pretty good at discouraging racism and sexism to a degree, but we as a society are at times shockingly age-ist.
These stories always make me thankful that my parents are being so pragmatic about their aging. They went through a bunch of this stuff with their parents a few years back, and didn't want us to have to go through it with them. So they've been planning for (and honest with) themselves while they're still in good mental and physical health, with the intention that we don't have to do it for them if and when they're not.
They're divesting themselves of the stuff they don't want us to have to deal getting rid of after they're gone. Even though they've been living in and traveling by RV for 15+ years, and are still doing well with it, they're seeing the gradual onset of natural signs in themselves too. So they're already cutting down on driving travels, using uber/lyft more, preparing to sell the truck and RV, are looking at apartments in a walkable small town downtown that is also much closer to both family assistance and healthcare services, and are setting us up with power of attorney.
I know this is no guarantee we won't still have to go through some of these challenges with them, especially depending on what cognitive conditions may develop, but their self-awareness so far has been a refreshing counterpoint to most of what I've encountered, and is setting an example I hope to be able follow.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
I don't know if you realize that we're not trying to take your keys. We're discussing a man that obviously is a danger to others.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Drivers 16 to 19 years old were involved in 4.8 fatal crashes per 100 million travel miles, compared to 3.3 for drivers 20 to 24, 2.3 for drivers 25 to 29, 1.4 for drivers 30 to 59, 1.3 for drivers 60 to 69, 1.8 for drivers 70 to 79, and 5.4 for drivers 80+. (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety [IIHS], 2021)
I'll agree that the data indicates there are more important age related factors than reflexes. But when talking about taking the keys away due to common causes of age related cognitive decline, the conversation is also generally NOT talking about those only in their 60's, or even 70's. Note the neighbor in the OP specifically being listed as ~85, and the ensuing commentary being based on that.
Irony: (n) Arguing against ageism with ageist arguments.
Someone needs to find the old guy's family if there is any. We went through some driving issues when my mom started having dementia problems. The old bird out smarted my dad and brother when they took her minivan though. She called a cab and went to the VW dealer and wrote a check for a new Tiguan.
She wet into assisted living shortly after so the problem went away.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
By all means, please DO point out where ANYONE in this thread said that young people - or anyone - driving like asshats makes the roads safer.
I'll wait while you find it.
In the meantime, you're old. Get used to it. So am I.
What exactly is being said that you refute and think is blatantly ageist? You yourself stated that there is a point of decline that driving isn't good. (And I am not intoning that it's the same age number for all people)
Individuals vary, but in large numbers, it's fact that decline in all parameters that make a safe driver happen with old age. It's also a reasonable argument that there are certainly those that are in a state of denial regarding their own decline.
The argument that enhanced evaluation of old folks in the years of statistical decline is a good idea holds merit. It's certainly better than an arbitrary "make their family deal with them", which assumes there is someone able or willing to exert a control. The very exerting of a control like that being the expectation rather than enhanced state evaluation could be considered opening the door for elder abuse, which is another facet of ageism.
With respect, Your argument about young drivers is engaging in whataboutism. It's a poor argument regarding the dangers present in older drivers. Both populations can be dangerous. Whether or not young kids are worse has little to no bearing on the relative merits of enhanced monitoring of older drivers for safety related impacts of decline.
You'll need to log in to post.
