Ender's Game as Hitler apology? Now THERE is a stretch. Disclaimer: I haven't read 'Speaker for the Dead' yet.
It's a novel, dammit. Card doesn't write the way Heinlein did, as commentary on current social events. Unlike Hitler, Ender at the end realizes exactly what he's done. He takes it upon himself to try to 'rehabilitate' the Buggers. Didn't see Hitler doing that.
Am I the only one that read the topic line in Jeremy Clarkson’s voice?
Tonight, James gets institutionalized over a sci-fi novel, and Richard gets life in prison for buying weed.
Ender's Game as Hitler apology? Now THERE is a stretch. Disclaimer: I haven't read 'Speaker for the Dead' yet.
It's a novel, dammit. Card doesn't write the way Heinlein did, as commentary on current social events. Unlike Hitler, Ender at the end realizes exactly what he's done. He takes it upon himself to try to 'rehabilitate' the Buggers. Didn't see Hitler doing that.
EDIT: I knew about his homophobia. I am not saying he is right about it, but like all of us he's welcome to be wrong about anything he chooses. He at least is unafraid to take his shots on that subject.
On his politics, he (at least to me) shows that he's not constrained by following any ideology, he will vote for the person he feels is most capable. Wonder where I've seen that before...?
...and I still don't see him being a Hitler apologist.
GameboyRMH wrote: Actually Stephen King wrote a book that does something closer to portraying a school shooting in a positive light (he regrets writing the book now) than this book does (which is a sci-fi murder mystery where the crime is a mass school shooting).
Wait what? Stephen King was qualified as a teacher and also contributed to smut books??? wiki link
I don't see anyone (save Curmudgeon's mom) calling for his "evaluation" and restricting his movements.
And yeah 7 pounds of weed. Sure, he was trafficking. But I want him out of prison and meth dealer or rapist put there in his place.
'Rage' is the SK story mentioned and it wasn't a sci fi story. Perhaps it was prescient; however I don't recall anyone citing it as a motivator to start shooting up a school. Yes he was a high school English teacher as well.
There have been plenty of people out there who were teachers etc and have produced books etc that had nothing to do with their 'day jobs' and never went nuts. That doesn't mean no one of them ever will... but as I said earlier I don't have the answer to the question of how do we tell when one does?
The teacher in the story referenced makes me think maybe, just maybe, there's more to it that hasn't been printed.
Now we all know THAT never happens.
Maryland would be a great state if it weren't for most of the people living here. There's a reason the place is a E36 M3hole.
Curmudgeon wrote: On his politics, he (at least to me) shows that he's not constrained by following any ideology, he will vote for the person he feels is most capable. Wonder where I've seen that before...?
Oh no, he's constrained by an ideology - he's Mormon and pretty much all of his views fall in line with that.
The teacher in the story referenced makes me think maybe, just maybe, there's more to it that hasn't been printed. Now we all know THAT never happens.
Okay, yes, that's the truth! So many times people - even myself - jump to someone's defense then later it turns out the guy was maybe not such a bright eyed innocent after all. Time will tell, hopefully we find out more about it.
As far as how we tell if someone's going to flip their lid - I would say the signs are pretty clear. Someone like Steven King doesn't throw a lot of warning signs. The people the flip out are not typically nice, normal guys that you thoroughly enjoy being around. Almost to a one they have major problems and people around them knew they were ticking time bombs but said and did nothing. Or they were completely reclusive and had no social contact - itself a warning sign for a species as social as we are. What we do about it I don't know, but I do know that writing something isn't a warning sign unless accompanied by far more than just the writing, and the other signs are more important than the writing.
OMG! Im not sure whats going on in this image, but the cover seems to depict some kind of smutty horse voyeurism...And its aimed at the children??? OH DEAR GOD, SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
LOCK THIS OBVIOUS PREVURT UP, AND THROW AWAY THE KEY!!!
I thought the purpose of a nom de plume was to keep your identity a secret.
Sky_Render wrote: I love me some good science fiction, but I would also be concerned if a teacher of my children was using literature written by a Hitler apologist, too. I also never said the teacher should be locked up.
I'm not sure I'd have gone that far as Card didn't really make the case for eugenics in any manner I can remember. His personal beliefs, such as his homophobia, didn't really manifest in Ender's either, though when the movie was released the media made a huge deal out of them.
Ender's Game has been pretty influential with many of the enlisted guys of the various branches of the military that I've been assigned to work with. That's why it sprung to mind first despite that I much prefer Asimov and Heinlein (or Weber and Modesitt if you want to be more modern.)
I'm sure there is more to the whole story as dculberson stated. It's just a matter of time until we find out what prompted the investigation. If it was just the book I'd expect to see a pretty big backlash in the next few weeks.
FWIW without getting too far OT, I found Scalzi's 'Old Man's War' stuff to be pretty decent, an anti-Ender if you will. I'm also reading 'Shift' which is the middle (actually prequel but it comes in the middle if that makes any sense) of the 'Silo' (Wool, Shift, Dust) books by Hugh Howey, now that has some things to say about the current state of affairs.
Curmudgeon wrote: FWIW without getting too far OT, I found Scalzi's 'Old Man's War' stuff to be pretty decent, an anti-Ender if you will. I'm also reading 'Shift' which is the middle (actually prequel but it comes in the middle if that makes any sense) of the 'Silo' (Wool, Shift, Dust) books by Hugh Howey, now that has some things to say about the current state of affairs.
I loved 'Old Man's War.' Even put it on my wife's Kindle for her to read and she enjoyed it so much she bought the rest of them and put them on my Kindle. I'll try to check out the Silo books some time.
Know your rights
You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it.
GameboyRMH wrote: OH NOES not his third time! Even if those were giant megabricks of weed too...still seems horribly wrong.
The way I see that one is, "Well you were stupid enough to prove you didn't learn a damn thing from the first two mistakes, so you're done. Goodbye"
Also note, to be applicable of the three strikes law(which several states have), all three convictions must be felonies. I have no pity for that career criminal.
The whole forcibly committed thing, well......we can thank the paranoid nature of educational establishments to all the violence that is happening at them. They're being too cautious.
I showed this to my 14 year old son who quipped "Well, I've been sentenced to institutionalized school for half my life for nothing. What could a five year old have done to deserve that punishment?"
Followed by "I bet they would let me out if I wrote a book..."
I shouldn't laugh. It only encourages him.
Datsun1500 wrote: It's gotta suck to be serving prison time for weed in places where it's now legal.
Thats the kicker, it still isn't legal in those places. Its just that the local/county/state law enforcement won't be the ones arresting you. Instead, it will be the federales who come to get you. 
Its one of those complicated "Are the states free to do as they please within their borders or are the federal laws valid everywhere?" debate over states rights. Oddly enough, this issue has been going on both directions recently......
yamaha wrote:Datsun1500 wrote: It's gotta suck to be serving prison time for weed in places where it's now legal.Thats the kicker, it still isn't legal in those places. Its just that the local/county/state law enforcement won't be the ones arresting you. Instead, it will be the federales who come to get you.
I got into a heated argument with my mother in law about state rights v. federal law. I should have known better but it happened anyway. She said I should have been born in 1860
In reply to Nick_Comstock:
Yea, but contrary to popular belief, the debate has been fought both ways by both political sides over the same thing sometimes.
Curmudgeon wrote: Ender's Game as Hitler apology? Now THERE is a stretch. Disclaimer: I haven't read 'Speaker for the Dead' yet. It's a novel, dammit. Card doesn't write the way Heinlein did, as commentary on current social events. Unlike Hitler, Ender at the end realizes exactly what he's done. He takes it upon himself to try to 'rehabilitate' the Buggers. Didn't see Hitler doing that. EDIT: I knew about his homophobia. I am not saying he is right about it, but like all of us he's welcome to be wrong about anything he chooses. He at least is unafraid to take his shots on that subject. On his politics, he (at least to me) shows that he's not constrained by following any ideology, he will vote for the person he feels is most capable. Wonder where I've seen that before...? ...and I still don't see him being a Hitler apologist.
Read the article I posted. There are far, far too many things the character Ender has in common with real-life Hitler for it to simply be a coincidence.
Hitler was the third child of a third marriage. Ender was the third child. (Such a big deal was made of this that he was even called "a Third," with a capital letter.)
Hitler had some weird sexless love affair with a sister. Ender had some weird sexless love affair with his sister Valentine.
Hitler was chaste until age 37. Ender was chaste until age--wait for it--age 37.
The entire series is basically trying to justify genocide via high science fiction. I'm not one to invoke Godwin's Law, but there are just too many bizarre parallels between Ender and Hitler for it to be a coincidence, IMO. Also note that I read all of Card's books in the Ender series before I saw that article I linked to and didn't realize this until after the fact.
Those are bizarre coincidences, and I am far from conflicted in liking the Ender series. But what about the later books that portray him as consumed with guilt about destroying the Buggers and vilified by society as a monster and doing his part in trying to bring the species back from extinction?
Yeah, not seeing it; I doubt that Hitler would have tried to bring back the Jews he had murdered whereas Ender was consumed by guilt at what he had done, how he (and his fellow Battle School pupils) had been used. There are a LOT of coincidences and parallels in literature and real life to all kinds of stuff. Doesn't mean it's an apology or an excuse.
Ender being Hitler? Not likely.
His brother... well... that might be a bit closer.
If you try hard enough, you can prove almost anything.
In reply to aircooled:
Pretty much
Wow, really? A book series about genocide and the main character has parallels with Hitler that are "bizarre coincidences," and you "don't see it"? OK, we'll just agree to disagree.
Curmudgeon wrote: Yeah, not seeing it; I doubt that Hitler would have tried to bring back the Jews he had murdered whereas Ender was consumed by guilt at what he had done, how he (and his fellow Battle School pupils) had been used.
That's the point. Card is a Hitler apologist; he's trying to say that poor little Adolf/Ender was forced into it by circumstances or some such nonsense.
Yeah, you are right. Card is a Hitler apologist. The coincidences prove it. Some random blog post by someone pissed off at Card also proves it. Card has single handedly resurrected Hitler from being the most evil person the human race has ever produced (at least that we know of).
I'm dead wrong for reading Card's book for exactly what it is: a work of fiction. I'm going to go back through all my other material and look for that kind of stuff there. I'm in the middle of Howey's 'Silo' books, now that I look back both Victor and Sen. Thurman in there could be an apology for Hitler as well.
You go, boy.
My suggestion: step outside, get a little oxygen.
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