The future of mainstream Automotive magazines - NOT GRM

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

No offense taken--only a fool asks for feedback and doesn't want it, and I hope I'm not a complete fool.

I hear what you're saying about magazines of yore and European titles; we constantly debate our actual and intended position between a more literary approach and something that's focused on extremely readable communication. We consciously work toward the latter because not only are we an American publisher in a world of modern, attention-challenged readers, we also carry a large amount of tech that demands clear language. Combine that with our constant challenges for space, and you get... GRM.

That said, we have been working to improve the photography, open up the layouts, and have more fun with the writing in general--but you'll probably never open our magazine and think DED has come back to life.

Thanks for caring enough to offer your opinion. 

Margie

The writers at GRM have very strong personalities.  JG is Henry Manney II.  Can't say it enough.  Tom is developing a style that owes a tiny bit of gratitude to JG but with a heavy Margie sensibility for structure.  Tim writes articles that often sound like he still can't believe he's a publishing magnate 34 years later.  The rest of the gang have strong identities of their own but I'm at Autobooks and the customers here are distracting me so I can't keep going.  34 years and counting....I'm still here.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

Phew, dodged that one!!

You're welcome and best of luck.

Off topic question for you that you can choose to ignore.  I've seen several places where even automotive forums claim they are dying as everyone is getting their automotive content on Faceballs or other social media.  Have you seen a change in traffic to the forum?  Personally GRM is my social media since I stopped using Zuckerberg's spy factory.

P.S. don't just think 'European titles'  It's only certain ones.  The average automotive monthly over there is awful, even worse than C&D/R&T.  99% ads (as opposed to only 98% ads here) with E36 M3ty regurgitated content and half of the magazine is news print while the other half is really thin low quality crap.  

Jerry From LA said:

The writers at GRM have very strong personalities.  JG is Henry Manney II.  Can't say it enough.  Tom is developing a style that owes a tiny bit of gratitude to JG but with a heavy Margie sensibility for structure.  Tim writes articles that often sound like he still can't believe he's a publishing magnate 34 years later.  The rest of the gang have strong identities of their own but I'm at Autobooks and the customers here are distracting me so I can't keep going.  34 years and counting....I'm still here.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a bookstore guy has such an ear for writers, but wow, that's cool.

Adrian, you never have to dodge around me--you're one of the good'uns. As for forum traffic, nope, we keep building, as do both the websites in general. It's possible others are bailing from the book of faceplants, or that we simply serve a different need. Either way, I'm happy it's happening.

Margie

Okay, I got rid of those pesky customers.  I failed to mention that, every once in awhile, when the score is tied, it's the bottom of the ninth, and the bases are loaded, the bullpen door swings open and out runs the Queen herself to put away the game with some crisp prose that has a sharp break to it.

That, and I overworked the metaphor.

...and she's still just a piker compared to what Jerry tosses out there between customers/hot dogs. Ask anyone who knows me, though, and they'll tell you I have a weakness for metaphors.

I second Jerry's appraisal of Tom (still want to call him Tommy!) and JG. Watching Tom become such an organized writer with such a well of industry knowledge has been a reassuring pleasure and gives me confidence for the future of GRM. And JG, well JG. If the article has his stamp, I'll read it, whether I'm interested in the topic or not. Due to my acting/improv background I'd love to see him let loose with his prose but not sure if GRM would be the place! As far as putting beautiful sentences together I'd love to see Marjorie knock an article out every issue - in her spare time.

If I quit playing with cars today, I would still sub to the magazine and still stop in here several times a day. If you look at my build threads, most of them aren't cars. 

To be perfectly honest with you, the main reason I don't do a in depth read of the magazine is this forum. If I have a question, I don't dig through the magazine, I ask these guys. They are a fount of information on just about every subject. If I need a review on tires, these guys have the information. Shocks, these guys. Cars, yep these guys. Pretty much name the topic, there is someone on here that is knowledgeable about the subject and willing to share. 

The parts I do read are usually the columns. I enjoy them the most. Maybe they aren't superbly artistic, but they do read like a good friend sitting at a bar somewhere. It makes for a better read to me. 

This little corner of the internet is inhabited the most reasonable group of people I know. We don't agree on everything, we don't all like the same things, but we certainly can discuss a topic intelligently without the the meme generated clutter that the book of faces has. 

My take is, keep up the good work. 

Toyman01 said:

To be perfectly honest with you, the main reason I don't do a in depth read of the magazine is this forum. If I have a question, I don't dig through the magazine, I ask these guys. They are a fount of information on just about every subject. If I need a review on tires, these guys have the information. Shocks, these guys. Cars, yep these guys. Pretty much name the topic, there is someone on here that is knowledgeable about the subject and willing to share. 

The parts I do read are usually the columns. I enjoy them the most. Maybe they aren't superbly artistic, but they do read like a good friend sitting at a bar somewhere. It makes for a better read to me. 

This little corner of the internet is inhabited the most reasonable group of people I know. We don't agree on everything, we don't all like the same things, but we certainly can discuss a topic intelligently without the the meme generated clutter that the book of faces has. 

My take is, keep up the good work. 

 

You can't give short shrift to the pure entertainment value of reading a magazine.  I don't have to learn anything in any issue, ever.  Sometimes I just want to be entertained by reading an account of someone else's derring-do, whether it be erecting a garage or buying and restoring a smashed up Lotus sitting in a field for 40 years.  Charles Dickens wrote many of his works in a serialized form, just like GRM.  So GRM is like a serialized Dickens novel but with cars instead of orphans.

I currently get GRM and C&D. C&D because it was free or almost free. I usually get it from the mailbox, leaf through it, notice it yet again has comparos and reviews of 8-10 SUVs and a couple supercars that I am not interested in then it goes into the recycle bin. I rarely even sit down with it before I toss it. GRM I at least read it and keep it around for a while. I would say I continue to subscribe for the columns and to support the people behind the mag and the forum. 

I grew up reading CD, R&T, Autoweek, Car Stereo Review, Car Audio, Sport Compact Car... and Journal of Light Construction. Automobile was too expensive. Today, many of those are gone, or basically gone  - when a magazine prints 60 pages, it’s gone.

Now I subscribe to GRM and Architecture (the latter because it comes with my AIA membership - and I rarely lift the cover). GRM for the reason I stated on the first page.

My preference is technical articles. How-to and why with a demonstration of principles. The tech articles from SCC blew me away.

Despite working in a graphic profession, I don’t care about super high photo quality. While I appreciate the photography of guys like Gregor Halenda - the internet makes great photography available in seconds. For a magazine, it seems a waste of resources IMO. So long as photos aren’t shot with a potato, I’m probably satisfied. 

Illustrations on the other hand, I really enjoy.

And I truly appreciate good spelling. My mother was a type setter and she always emphasized those things. Keep up the good work in that regard, GRM.  

Finally, a question for the Suddards:  Do you poll the forum for article topics? Seems like the thumbs up would be a good way to prioritize magazine content.

I like print media.  I still read books, magazines and would read the newspaper if they hadn't tried to jack my rates 60%.  I read GRM cover to cover, as well as most of the other car magazines.  Well, not Roundel, they've really swirled the drain.  That one I pretty much flip thru and read Rob Siegels column.

I'm not interested in looking at a screen, for me the forum and the magazine are completely separate things....

When I subscribed it was to support the site, get the shirt, and read about half of it. 

Preferred content was Say What, buying guides, and the lighter articles. Like “Every generation M3 comparison” or Challenge coverage. Also the project builds. 

I would skim or skip deeper race series coverage and such because I am simply not at a level of involvement in Motorsport to make heads or tails of the alphabet soup of organizations and classes. But I understand the value of those articles to persons more involved than me. 

One plus of the magazine is physical quality. It is nicer than National Geographic. 

Things I like: Buyers guides, great deals that are out there, underrated vehicles, comparison articles (i.e. Best generation of M3, best Autocross tire, best "supercar" under $30k, oil comparisons, things like that), autocross stuff, Tech Tip stuff, some of the builds, and Challenge information.

Don't really care any about the race series or anything. Just not my bag, don't participate, don't know what I'm reading about. That doesn't mean take it out, just means I don't read it.

I don't read the race coverage either.  I don't participate in any it, don't know any of the people so don't care about it.

Marjorie Suddard said:

This conversation is relevant to my interests

So for those of you who subscribe mainly to support us, 1) thank you and 2) what could we do to make the magazine appeal more to you?

And thanks for the shout-out, Alfadriver. Copyediting and rewriting are weird passions to have, but David, Sarah and I all share them. For me it's the word-based version of restoring a car or, I guess, sculpting: You can see what lies beneath, and take great pleasure in bringing it out.

Margie

I grew up reading GRM and still subscribe to this day.  I love the magazine, and it is the ONLY magazine I still read.  To me, I look for the stories, such as the article about the wrecked s2000 build that came out recently.  If I want to read something tech related, I usually just end up coming to the forums.

I also sometimes feel like tha magazine has started to move upmarket in the types of cars it covers.

Jerry From LA said:

Yes, we have a whole bunch of magazines you've never heard of (Y-Block Magazine anyone? )

Wow, that's about as specialized as they get (I assume it's for fans of Y-block Ford engines.)

In reply to stuart in mn :

You pegged it.  There's a platoon of diehard racing enthusiasts still intent on running them and quite a bit of knowledge about getting them to breathe better, since the lower end is fairly unburstable.  Plus, the first-gen T-Bird and shoebox-era (57-59) enthusiasts trying to keep their babies running.  They send us a billion issues like we know every single Y-block fan in the world.  I check out every new edition because it's really eccentric and fun.

I stopped subscribing because I felt GRM was drifting away from the junkyard shopping, fix-it-in-your-gravel-driveway cheap old cars thing it started out as. And there is some truth to that. Any car I have to make payments on to own isn't "grassroots" but I know other people have a different definition.

Further reflection revealed some other factors that weren't GRM staff influenced. First, modern cars are really not terribly interesting despite their tech and capabilities. They aren't easily tuned or modified. Doing 'builds' has become more expensive in a lot of ways. I also don't autocross anymore as I just don't find it appealing to spend most of a day waiting to have fun for six whole minutes. I moved to HPDE and later road racing, then found out what an expensive hobby REALLY looks like and backed out to HPDE again.

My knowledge level has also grown exponentially over the years and I just wasn't learning all that much from GRM as I did in years past because I didn't know then what I know now...some of it thanks to GRM of course.

My dislike of newer cars, advancing age and a move towards motorcycles instead of cars for several reasons all contribute to what amounts to changing tastes. I still drop by from time to time but find most of the topics here and in the magazine just not that compelling. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with the magazine or the people who read it, I just no longer share a similar passion for some of the topics.

I always did like buyer's guides and HONEST reviews of cars both new and old. HONEST reviews of products too but it feels like the worry of advertising dollars infiltrates that last one, at least the last ones I read several years back. Driving tips I can apply are always welcome. The columns were always the first thing I'd read too. Race coverage? Meh. It's always ancient news by the time it gets to my mailbox.

In reply to ddavidv :

Respectfully how long have you been reading the mag?  i thought you were one of the old timers.  To be honest I've always hated the association of grassroots and cheap.  Grassroots is from the ground up, not necessarily cheap.  I've been reading since   94/95 and I got my first subscription at Solo Nats in 97.  To be honest I feel that the 'junk yard' side of Grassroots didn't gain traction until the original $1,500 challenge.  I remember early (in my reading) issues including builds for an E36ti race car (rear half cage only for W2W racing with BMW CC!!!) the famous long running Ro Spit.  Early tests of supercharged (then new) NA Miata's etc.  GRM was never only about bottom $.  Anyway, each to their own, but to me GRM ≠ low buck.

ddavidv said:

I stopped subscribing because I felt GRM was drifting away from the junkyard shopping, fix-it-in-your-gravel-driveway cheap old cars thing it started out as. And there is some truth to that. Any car I have to make payments on to own isn't "grassroots" but I know other people have a different definition.

That's me too, and when I said that 10 or more years ago I took some heat for it, though a few years later they claimed to be getting back to basics (I don't recall the exact words) with less big dollar stuff. Coincidentally it was the first challenge that brought me to the magazine.

I don't subscribe anymore but I enjoy the forum a lot more now and would probably buy anothr 10 year sub for my son again if that's still a thing. He likes the mag.

Suprf1y said:

ddavidv said:

I stopped subscribing because I felt GRM was drifting away from the junkyard shopping, fix-it-in-your-gravel-driveway cheap old cars thing it started out as. And there is some truth to that. Any car I have to make payments on to own isn't "grassroots" but I know other people have a different definition.

Honestly that's what turned me off about the magazine and now the forums sometimes.  The idea that if its not coming from a junkyard and the car isn't a complete POS, then what you're doing isn't "Grassroots".  It's been a long time since I've gone to a pick n pull.  It's been a long time since I've owned a car that's $500.  Does that make any of my projects any less "Grassroots"?