The left lane is the passing lane.

I think the problems come from BOTH overcrowding and ignorance. If I were Supreme Ruler everyone would have to read and understand the following rules for 3 lane interstates:

-The far right lane is for merging, exiting, and steady flow of slower traffic including big trucks. The merging and exiting is primarily the responsibility of the merging or exiting party and should be done in such a way as to minimally effect the flow of traffic already on the interstate.

-The middle lane is for traffic moving slightly faster than the right lane with as little variation between speeds of the cars in the lane as possible. The middle lane is also for people moving out of the left lane to avoid slowing faster moving traffic in the left lane. Big trucks are also permitted in this lane.

-The left lane is for all cars moving faster than those in the right two lanes. Priority is given to whomever wants to drive fastest. If possible all drivers in the left lane should merge right whenever a car driven more rapidly approaches. It is the responsibility of the slower car to attempt to not slow the flow of faster traffic. If that involves increasing speed then it is the slower drivers responsibility to do so. If the slower driver is unwilling to increase speed to the level where they do not impede other drivers then they should move to the center lane even if they have to reduce speed to do so. Big trucks may only use this lane in emergency situations.

Bobzilla wrote: Why does everyone driving in Indiana with an Illinois liscense plate not understand that you do not camp out in the fast lane. More importantly, when you have had more than a mile's advance notice that a lane ends and you are still in it when there IS NO LANE.... you should be shot.

Illinois drivers do that in Wisconsin, too, and it gets worse on weekend (i.e. more of them).

keethrax wrote:

EastCoastMojo wrote: We could have 500 lanes on every highway and everyone would grab their own lane and drag race to the exit to see who can get the hole shot, it's human nature.

Other than the practical considerations (size, cost, the pileup at the exits) that would be sweet.

Sounds like a good time to me. My frustration with slow people in the left lane is getting surpassed by people who honk at me for not taking the right on red - when it is expressly prohibited by signs. Got to watch about 10 county troopers handing out tickets a few weeks ago for illegal right on red. 6 weeks later, it's back to honking and hoping the jerk waving his finger behind me isn't armed.

Traffic law enforcement rarely has anything to do with safety or conditioning people to drive well. It's tax collection.

On a related note, I think there should be a law that traffic enforcement priorities correspond with traffic incidents. In other words, running a speed trap in a 25 mph zone that has had zero accidents in the last 90 days would take a much lower priority than writing red light tickets in an intersection where there has been 10 accidents in the last 90 days.

EastCoastMojo wrote: We could have 500 lanes on every highway and everyone would grab their own lane and drag race to the exit to see who can get the hole shot, it's human nature.

Quoted and voted up for conjuring the best visual of the thread.

Bobzilla wrote: People that pull that E36 M3 piss me off to no end.

Actually...they only piss you off up to the end of the lane.

Now I'm not going to try to change your mind...but I am going to ask you to spend 5 minutes (that's a lot, really) thinking about the up- and down-sides of "merging in turn" (running up to the end of the lane and then merging) versus merging at first sign of lane closure.

I used to feel the same way as you do. But someone explained it to me and I've changed my mind.

I've also started reading the book "Traffic." I'm not much of a reader, so it's been 7 months now and I'm only two chapters in...but it is a good read. I think other folks here might like the book. So far it's basically sociology specifically about driving.

Clem

Otto Maddox wrote: Yep. As noted above up here it's 53mph at all times.

My stepmother does 45 mph, whether she is on the interstate or in the Target parking lot. She wrecks a lot.

I laughed out loud...

HHAHAHAHAHAHA!

spitfirebill wrote:

N Sperlo wrote: In MO, its the law.

Its darn near the law in all states. We had a SC State Trooper talk to us at work one day. He told us he has written tickets to people going the speed limit in the left lane if they were blocking traffic.

give me that guys name and address, I want to buy him a doughnut.

Hell, I want to buy him a Krispy Kreme franchise!

keethrax wrote: Up here the magic # is 53 miles an hour on any highway, no matter what. On the divided 65mph roads, go 53. In whichever lane you end up in. The ones doing this in the right lane are a minor annoyance. I mean we're talking more than 10mph under the limit, but whatever, there's always the left lane to pass them in. The same people doing it in the left lane piss me off to no end. In any case, unless they're doubled up, they get passed. On the "normal" 55mph sections, they go 53. So I pass them, but at least they're *close* to the speed limit, so I'm not really annoyed the *first* time I pass them. Then you hit the towns. You know where the local cops live and probably aren't doing much so there's a good chance they're waiting for speeders... 30-40mph speed limits depending on the town. So I slow down. Blam! There they go by me at...you guessed it 53 mph. They get busted hitting the edges of towns right in front of me often enough to illustrate that blasting through the towns is stupid. No way am I going to try to keep up through said towns. But sure enough, as soon as I get out of town and the speed limit comes back up I'm right behind them again. When I have to pass the same jackass 3-4 (or more times) because I don't want to get a ticket blasting through some podunk town, but still want to do a reasonable speed when not in town, it starts to wear on my nerves.

QFT. And even worse on 2-lane roads (there's a stretch in AL I have to pass through to get to mom's place in FL), because now you have to find a clear place to pass them. Every time one of these dimbulbs passes me on the 4-lane stretch of Radar Wave, AL (population 3,000..half of them working traffic control), I just want to scream. I guess they don't get pulled over because they're not in shiny black GT cars.

MrJoshua wrote: I think the problems come from BOTH overcrowding and ignorance. If I were Supreme Ruler everyone would have to read and understand the following rules for 3 lane interstates: -The far right lane is for merging, exiting, and steady flow of slower traffic including big trucks. The merging and exiting is primarily the responsibility of the merging or exiting party and should be done in such a way as to minimally effect the flow of traffic already on the interstate. -The middle lane is for traffic moving slightly faster than the right lane with as little variation between speeds of the cars in the lane as possible. The middle lane is also for people moving out of the left lane to avoid slowing faster moving traffic in the left lane. Big trucks are also permitted in this lane. -The left lane is for all cars moving faster than those in the right two lanes. Priority is given to whomever wants to drive fastest. If possible all drivers in the left lane should merge right whenever a car driven more rapidly approaches. It is the responsibility of the slower car to attempt to not slow the flow of faster traffic. If that involves increasing speed then it is the slower drivers responsibility to do so. If the slower driver is unwilling to increase speed to the level where they do not impede other drivers then they should move to the center lane even if they have to reduce speed to do so. Big trucks may only use this lane in emergency situations.

Isn't this Germany's laws?

What would you do when it wasn't enforced by the doughnut patrol, er, I mean law enforcement?

bravenrace wrote: That's what i used to think until a friend convinced me otherwise. The problem isn't people using the lane that's ending, it's the people in the other lane that won't let that lane merge smoothly. Cars in the lane that's ending have to merge into the other lane at some point, but to leave that lane entirely empty just makes the traffic jam longer. The DOT wouldn't spend the time and money to put a lane in that we weren't supposed to use. I've seen a particular lane like that in downtown Akron that was almost empty until a police car pulled out of the stopped lane and drove down the open one. Again, you and anyone else can decide not to use a legitimate lane, but don't try to block me from using it or we will have problems.

I disagree with your friend.

The argument about the lane being there is completely missing the point, since it's coming to an end for whatever reason, but I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.

Cheers!

N Sperlo wrote: In MO, its the law.

Don't go down 50 HWY much, do you?

Late merging makes more sense and works for the common good keeping both lanes moving WHEN THOSE IN THE OPEN LANE ALLOW THE MERGE TO OCCUR. Unfortunately, most people act like Tony Stewart at Daytona trying to keep Kyle Busch from returning to the draft. And I like Tony Stewart!

I've read Traffic. It is quite telling. I highly recommend reading it. Trying to figure out how to incorporate it into my DE curriculum.

BTW, I teach all my students that the passing lane is just that-- the passing lane. The right lane is the driving lane.

z31maniac wrote:

bravenrace wrote: That's what i used to think until a friend convinced me otherwise. The problem isn't people using the lane that's ending, it's the people in the other lane that won't let that lane merge smoothly. Cars in the lane that's ending have to merge into the other lane at some point, but to leave that lane entirely empty just makes the traffic jam longer. The DOT wouldn't spend the time and money to put a lane in that we weren't supposed to use. I've seen a particular lane like that in downtown Akron that was almost empty until a police car pulled out of the stopped lane and drove down the open one. Again, you and anyone else can decide not to use a legitimate lane, but don't try to block me from using it or we will have problems.

I disagree with your friend. The argument about the lane being there is completely missing the point, since it's coming to an end for whatever reason, but I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine. Cheers!

It really isn't a matter of opinion, so yours doesn't matter (nor does mine). There are lots and lots of actual traffic studies real and simulated that demonstrate that you're wrong and he and his friend are right. Pushing it till the last minute increases throughput and decreases the length of the jam.

Essentially the results for 2 into 1 merges came out to be such that a late merge in the worst case is as bad as an earlier merge, and in the best case is better. So it's never worse, and often better. Bigger merges tilt it even more heavily in favor of the late merge.

^Well, in a perfect world I guess, but it seems like the people in front of me never let the late merger in, so then everyone has to slam on the brakes, rinse, repeat.

Conquest351 wrote: I could swear they taught it in driver's ed.

we didn't have any 4 lane roads around here when I took driver's ed

foxtrapper wrote: We've got so many cars on the road, all the lanes are full.

Same here. Traffic in general is just plain annoying. These days I'm more annoyed by people not using their turn signals though.

z31maniac wrote: ^Well, in a perfect world I guess, but it seems like the people in front of me never let the late merger in, so then everyone has to slam on the brakes, rinse, repeat.

Then it's on you to be the nice guy and help out the rest of traffic behind you. Rather than slamming on your brakes to let the person merge, simply avoid accelerating when the dicks in front of you accelerate to block off merging traffic.

It works.

EastCoastMojo wrote: We could have 500 lanes on every highway and everyone would grab their own lane and drag race to the exit to see who can get the hole shot, it's human nature.

Here in the DC metro area I'd pay good money for ANYONE to have enough clear direction and commitment, and to momentarily NOT BE ON THE FREAKING PHONE long enough to even consider that they're going someplace much less trying to get a hole shot.

I'm over 50, I'm a racer - HPDE instructor - and I drive smoothly, quickly, and deliberately. Both hands on the wheel, eyes up, radio off generally. What people here do is not driving - it's remaining seated in a moving vehicle.

Anybody who tailgates or brake checks in revenge shouldn't be behind the wheel.

I have been known to use extended windshield washer fluid application to remove a tailgater, but then I'm not camped out in the left either so... pass me already

The problem is the infrastructure in place isn't designed to handle the current traffic load much less where it will be in 15 years, if everyone that can breathe is allowed to drive. We need more and better alternate modes of transport that appeal to the masses that need a ride but don't find the current options convenient or attractive for whatever reason, and tighter control on getting a driving license. It needs to be a damn sight harder to obtain a drivers license than it is right now, and it needs to be a privilege that is respected and not as likely to be abused, ie: stiffer penalties.

And of course, we all love this one. The camera work is horrible, and the language is NSFW.

Ran into the most extreme and weird case of "merge ahead" mess I've ever seen last weekend.

Hit the interstate and suddenly come to a halt. OK. 2 lanes, everyone is in the left lane, standing still. People had merged to the left, and so did I.

Spent about 10 minutes sitting there, wondering why I'm sitting there with everyone else, in the left lane, inching along. There is nothing in the right hand lane. No reason to be in the left lane.

So, I finally venture out to the right. It's perfectly clear, and I cautiously take off.

I went for miles in the right hand lane, passing the stopped cars in the left lane. Miles. Every once in a while someone would veer out to wreck me and make a statement, but easily passed them.

Then, coming around a curve, I see the reason. A road crew doing tree trimming on the right hand shoulder.

They did have the right hand lane half closed, so I merged to the left, passed the tree trimmers, went back to the right and continued on my way.

Not an expressway problem, we all understand those, but a winter driving annoyance on the two lanes. Why do some people forget how to drive on packed snow so they crawl along at 15 mph in white knuckled terror in the middle of the road waiting for me to show up going five to 10 over the speed limit? This can lead to some fairly spectacular avoidance maneuvers. If they would just spend a half hour in an empty snow covered parking lot sliding around learning what their care is like on the slippery stuff everybody would be happier.

Winter drivers are remarkable. Stopping at the bottom of the hill to gather courage, etc.

I especially love how they try to stop me because I'm still successfully climbing. Many times they'll get out of their stuck car and stand in front of mine, trying to force me to stop, so they can tell me the road is too slippery to drive up.