Thank you, Toyman, we appreciate it. And yeah, I won't go too deep into it, but suffice to say I've had a LOT of "WTF, are you serious, why is this not a thing yet?!" Zoom calls with web developers this year. We're not trying to build a giant machine here that ruins your experience, we're trying to build cool stuff that makes it better and having trouble doing so at our scale. Fortunately I think we have a good team in place now, and I'm excited for what 2021 will bring.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
It is kind of amazing what is available to companies with budgets in the millions and billions. I would love to be running SAP at my office. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with software like Quickbooks because it's what the budget allows.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
I am also a forum supporter so far as I know. But I have not looked to see if the money is still coming out. I assume it is.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:Quick question. Are the ads pay per click or pay for display? If they are pay per click, I can probably manage to click on a few of them every day or so.
The vast majority of our site ads are sold by us rather than through programmatic channels. That's one reason so many of the ads are actually relevant to GRM and not all sorts of random internet stuff, because we're actually calling most of the companies and saying "our crowd would love this!"
So to answer your question, neither. Most of the ads aren't tracked or paid by an algorithm, but rather by a car enthusiast like you and me who acts as the marketing director at each company, and who watches the site to see how they look and how our users are responding to them. They'll likely pull up a monthly report of clicks to see if the ads are sending any traffic their way, too, but it's not a robot making decisions, it's somebody like us.
So, if you'd like to help us, look at the ads, and if they're relevant to you, click on them to learn more about what they're selling. Most of our digital advertisers are small businesses like ours, and they'll appreciate the site traffic even if they don't always close the sale. Of course, if you do buy something, telling them you saw their ad on GRM goes a long, long way. Then, hopefully, they'll call us back the next month and ask to continue running the ad.
I know this isn't a cut and dry answer, but hopefully this explains how the ads end up on the site a little bit.
I hate the ads but understand their purpose and can deal with them.
I am not an expert on the forum coding field, but it always struck me as odd that GRM wanted to reinvent the wheel and spend an outrageous amount of money developing a forum interface, which by the way is still subpar, instead of going to an off the shelf solution like vbulletin. Is it really worth it?
The above is probably going to piss off people, but that's not my intention. Its an honest observation that I am sure is shared by many here.
Your 2020 media kit states that there are 407k unique monthly visitors to the forum. If 1% of those pay $10/month ... that's nothing to sneeze at. Even $5/month is $250k/year. I would be happy to pay $5/month as is ... $10 if the forum had better features; like an ad free interface, ad free search, polls, being able to see members last post, etc. Basically all the stuff I get from vbulletin run forums.
Just an opinion from a member that really appreciates all you guys do and the place you give us to express ourselves, even if it doesnt sound like it lol.
In reply to Marjorie Suddard or Tom Suddard :
I have a question (mostly curiosity)...
I have been on this forum since 2003. 17 years. I've lost track of how many times during that time that GRM has had to completely rebuild the online platform because the software was so outdated. Is it a half dozen? I'm pretty sure its much more...
I know the site software is not a packaged out-of-the-box solution. Essentially, its all a one-off- totally unique.
As a casual observer, it seems this has been a major effort. Nothing seems to update automatically (like out-of-the-box solutions). There are glitches that never seem to get solved (like editing posts), and every once in a while the site needs a total revamping.
It feels like once you went down the rabbit hole (to build your own custom solution instead of using more readily available ones), that the primary reason to stick with it has always been simply that it's too hard to switch horses midstream. (Which may be a very legitimate reason)
So, what are the advantages GRM gets out of the custom solution? What am I missing?
I'm really just interested in learning a little... no criticism.
In reply to Slippery (Forum Supporter) :
Huh... looks like you and I are on exactly the same page...
bigdaddylee82 said:Nope, we're wrong, we were told they aren't invasive, so they must not be.
There are ads?
No Time said:So is there a forum equivalent to the advertiser index in the print edition?
There have been many times where I order online and would have gone through the link in the vendors ad on the forum, but finding it seems to be left to chance.
Maybe make it easier to get to advertisers site through this website? I'll gladly go to RA, TR, or other sites through the GRM links, as long as I can find it (and don't have to wait for it to show up by chance).
This!
Heck, the online buyers I buy from are largely because of GRM. I'd gladly do a clickthrough.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
In reply to Slippery (Forum Supporter) :
As someone who has moderated some very large vBulletin forums for well over a decade, I have also been asking this exact question here for quite some time now.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I really have zero berkeleys to give about an ad that does nothing but help GRM make revenue. It doesn't pop up an ad in my face, it doesn't try to sell me little blue pills, it doesn't have audio, it doesn't do anything except occupy a line. How many topics do you scroll past because you don't have anything to offer to the thread? Do you complain about those? No, you just keep scrolling.
I really don't care one bit that there is an ad occupying a slot that makes me scroll... which is something I was doing anyway.
Tom is just a squirrel tryin to get a nut. Without those nuts, we don't have a forum or a magazine.
You go on with your bad self, Tom. Put an ad under every third topic, I will just scroll a bit more. I think with what this family (all of you) bring to the table is definitely worth a completely innocuous banner that hurts no one.
Quoting this because I can only give it 1 thumb up. I appreciate this forum and realize it's a massive undertaking. Thank you for providing it!
And is there a way we can click through to an advertiser when we need to order something, which then gets you a tiny bit of revenue? I need to order a bunch of things for my new Bronco project.
In reply to Cooter :
Same here, though I only asked once, years ago.
I used to mod and admin a half dozen forums. A couple of them I paid for out of my own pocket and the costs were not significant.
In reply to Marjorie Suddard :
I appreciate that you're working towards a goal, and that's the important part. I'm not going to bail being a FS soon. I just would like to have a better experience if I'm paying.
I'm often at advrider.com and they offer an ad-free experience in turn for financially supporting the site.
Cheers
Peabody said:In reply to Cooter :
Same here, though I only asked once, years ago.
I used to mod and admin a half dozen forums. A couple of them I paid for out of my own pocket and the costs were not significant.
It really reminds me of an employee I have.
He drives a late 90's Dodge pickup and spends $400 of gas a month. I know because I am tired of hearing complain about it. Its a piece of crap that breaks down monthly too.
This guy makes $27.3/hour, has no kids, ect. I mentioned countless of times he would certainly come out ahead if he bought a brand new Civic/Corolla/Mazda3 etc. He keeps driving that piece of crap and complaining.
I just watch from the sidelines.
First. I don't care much about the ads. I don't click on them, and they are laughably ugly, but whatever. I get the reason for them.
I am 100% with you SVreX - this forum has been built & rebuilt *many* times over the years. Often rather major events, followed by much outrage in the community. It seems to cause stress, cost money, and generally be a pain.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:So, what are the advantages GRM gets out of the custom solution? What am I missing?
Drag and drop image embedding/upload is pretty nice. But yeah, aside from that, for a user like myself, vB is superior in every conceivable way.
I would be curious to know what advantages this custom solution gives the GRM team.
Don't think we haven't been (aggressively) investigating alternatives, including off the shelf solutions. The decision to keep driving this car comes after a year of work behind the scenes.
The suggestions seem to miss a very important point: We are not just a forum. The forum is one part of a website that's focused on editorial content. Every alternative we investigated would require breaking you all off to your own corner of the website and severing the links between the forum and the content. That's before we figure out how to migrate all the forum threads, which we wouldn't want to abandon. We also want to keep our drag-and-drop image uploading and our integration between article comments and forum threads.
Oh, and most importantly, we want to make sure every thread will stay accessible for as long as humanly possible. You all are pouring your hearts and souls into every thread, from baking tips to decade-long build threads, and the only way to ensure they're still online and easily accesible 50 years from now is to keep things in-house. That's also a big reason we built our own photo hosting solution, as it's frustrating as heck to open a 10-year-old thread and not see the photos.
Sticking with our custom solution also lets us build the new features we have planned, including new experiences tailored to somebody's status as a Forum Supporter.
FWIW, Ars Technica has a similar integration with articles they way you guys do (comments are forum posts), and they use phpBB.
Tom Suddard said:to decade-long build threads...
Hey! I resemble that remark.
I get it. I really do. Make the ads the height of the threads, and make them the full width, and it's going to be way better.
Also another suggestion: Put together an advertiser list. Lots of us are looking to buy stuff, and if an advertiser sells it we will actively seek it out. Just an easy list, maybe categories. You want engine parts for a Nissan? Call these guys. And we will. The more blatant, the better penetration you'll get.
I'm not a developer, but to rebuild this site with phpBB is a monumental undertaking, and would require so much customization that again, we're better off sticking with what we already have.
And I agree; Ars Technica does a good job. They're also part of a company with $1.2B in revenue and 6000 employees. We're operating at a different level.
Also, have you seen their ads?
In reply to tuna55 :
I appreciate the sizing suggestion, but we want to keep it VERY obvious what is and isn't an ad when you're browsing. Camoflaging them as forum threads could lead to accidental clicks.
The advertiser list is a neat idea, but not something we've ever had any interest in from our customers. I'll bring it up again and see what happens.
We do have our list of preferred partners at the bottom of every page, though.
Tom Suddard said:Also, have you seen their ads?
I have :) I don't love them, but its cleaner than here. I have 7(!) ads for Tire Rack on this page right now. 5 of them are adjacent to one another!
Anyway, I won't take it any further than this, I was just offering that for what it was worth. Love you guys.
Thank you, we do appreciate the feedback (seriously). It's my hope that once we build out a real home for our Forum Supporters, that revenue stream will cover the desire for far fewer ads on the site.
Let me say that I, for one, don't particularly like most canned forums. Keep using your slightly funky custom built version. I actually prefer it.
My only request would be some sort of view counter. With no indicator that anyone is reading stuff posted, it gets hard to be motivated to continue long build and adventure threads.
I've been around since 2012 (I think) and I only knew of one forum upgrade since then, unless I missed one.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I was thinking one major revamp and several tweaks since 09.
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