You guys are a friendly bunch. Mind if I let off a little steam?
X out of the thread if you do.
I've been on the job market. Had to leave the last job. First job I got was in a foundry. This is in my wheelhouse, and I agreed to 50 hour work weeks simply to get me out of the place I worked before. First day, the manager informed me it was mandatory 12 hour shifts. 60+ hours a week. Like it or lump it. So, I finished my shift, and quit. I reminded him that I had only taken the job because he wasn't a headhunter, but acting like one by promising me something, then changing the rules was breach of contract.
So I kept looking. I finally found a job 1/2 mile from home doing maintenance on an office building. I have just finished my first week, and today learned that my "on call" status involves aforementioned office building, as well as several apartments, condos, and who knows what else. I am the first line of defense. An office building is quite different from several residences.
My gripe? Why will no one simply explain the job up front? Do they not realize that misrepresenting the job is a sure path to disillusionment? Are they really that scared of simply telling the truth?
Is integrity dead?
In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) :
This is why I'm sticking with my 20 year old job. At least I know all the bullE36 M3 now and how to deal with it.
When I hire salespeople I'm brutally honest. Good and bad I show it all. Sometimes they turn down the job but I'd rather have this than them leaving 6 months down the road.
I was removed from the task and the shiny camp counselor manager doesn't tell all and folks hired make the same comments you made.
Honesty moment... I have worked for my theater for 6 years and I just got a written job description... that they asked me to write.... that I copied from a website... that took the board 3 years to approve... that they still don't understand.
Status quo here. I keep having fun at my job with zero oversight at the expense of no one respecting me.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
You're respected here. 
If they can't be honest and upfront in the first day/week, what will they be like in a year? There is a massive shortage of manpower right now. You can find a job that isn't completely full of E36 M3. As for the rest? berkeley em.
Appleseed said:
If they can't be honest and upfront in the first day/week, what will they be like in a year? There is a massive shortage of manpower right now. You can find a job that isn't completely full of E36 M3. As for the rest? berkeley em.
Absolutely agree. If you're being abused now, what's it going to be like when you've established that you'll let them get away with abusing you.
Probably different in your case, but I have found job descriptions rarely paint an entirely accurate description of what you end up actually doing.
That can be a good thing (for you and your employer) if you are allowed to define the role a bit, and of course bad if they don't.
In reply to Appleseed :
Agreed 100%
I would counter by shocking them with your directness and honesty. Also knowing that they're short of staff. I've been in situations that were similar and I have not hesitated to ask if they have difficulty with turnover. They're often taken back once asked that. Some of them that they do but then downplay it or say the job's more demanding than most people can handle. (Blame shifting instead of taking responsibility) but I'll flat out tell them that I think it's in my best interest to continue looking for myself but that I'll continue to perform the job as needed and I'll give them notice regarding my plans when they come to be.
I attempt to leave things better than I found, but many people are complacent and have been promoted to a level of incompetence.
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:
My gripe? Why will no one simply explain the job up front? Do they not realize that misrepresenting the job is a sure path to disillusionment?
And no one asks why the position is open?
ddavidv
UltimaDork
7/3/21 6:09 a.m.
You assume the employer will actually answer that question honestly. Thou is naiive.
In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) :
You are going to get a slight reward for being near the bottom of the employment chain
Working people who actually do the job are getting the biggest percentage wage increases.
Over 4 million people quit during the pandemic. Quit, not were laid off, or fired. And the trend is growing. They are either baby boomers ready to retire or millennials tired of low wage jobs looking up the employment chain.
In my state alone they are expecting 10,000 person shortage of school bus drivers.
That's a $20. Hr starting wage job now. Big bus sized signs advertising opportunities. All over. They pay for your training, your medical your background check. Your CDL And teach you using their equipment.
New contract winning companies are paying a 10% /hr premium ($22.50/ hr to steal other drivers. And with a 10,000 person shortage that's not going to be the only increase.
Restaurants, retailers, and any entry level are already well past the $15/hr minimum. Entry level for lawn mower companies /yard work is near $20 while construction workers start well over $25/hr. New multi million dollar house on the point is going up slowly with only 3 carpenters where typically 15 would be working.
While that's good, lack of employees will slow the growth of the American economy. Even the owners see that.
There will always be bullE36 M3 and there will always be honesty. The bullE36 M3 seems more common than it is because it keeps popping up because there's so much churn.
It's not that there is a lack of good positions by ethical employers who accurately or at least fairly represent the scope of the work they're hiring for, it's just that the people hired for those jobs tend to stay in them. So they only pop up occasionally when something big happens in the person life. Not every 3 months because every new hire keeps telling them, "berkeley it. I'm out."
Sad part is this is by far, the best job I've had since I moved to East TN. I'm going to hang in there for a bit. At least I'm on the books for a raise. My understanding is that job hopping is the new form of promotion. I can do that.
What I think it is is this:
Headhunting has become so common even normal jobs have resorted to the same tactics. Ramp up the pressure, and count on the fact that changing jobs is tough to keep them there. Or work them on such a schedule that they don't have time to look for another job. The employee is a consumable. It is just silly that there is a nationwide labor shortage, yet companies won't take the time to hire good employees.
When I inquired about my job (been here 9yrs), my now boss told me it's "10hr days, sometimes a saturday". I told him to choke on a phallus. The next day he calls me back and says "ya know I may have been over blowing it, I'm just trying to find someone that will work out. How about 40hrs a week and no Saturday's?"
been here nine years. Never worked a Saturday, and hardly ever work more than forty. My boss looked for someone with my qualifications for 4 yrs and when he finally found me, wanted to lowball me into slavery. Nuh uh buddy.
When I was interviewing for my previous job in engineering I asked specifically about work hours and overtime and I was told I would get paid for every minute of overtime worked by the Engineering director. That was a lie. The last 2 years I worked there I averaged 75 hrs/week and had one week where I worked 110 hrs. The entire industry is built on expecting people to work unpaid overtime as a point of "pride in your job". Each person is loaded to about 50hrs/week before any emergent issue support comes up. So happy I left. It only took me 7 years to realize my mistake....
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:
Or work them on such a schedule that they don't have time to look for another job. The employee is a consumable. It is just silly that there is a nationwide labor shortage, yet companies won't take the time to pay good employees what they are worth.
FTFY. Employees are a consumable. They are just cannon fodder.
In reply to noddaz :
Agreed,
As we wade our way out of Covid, my faith in humanity is very low. Starting to look for work did not improve the situation. Put out some feelers, and it is a feeding frenzy of headhunters. I have had hundreds of scam attempts since I have been looking in earnest. I mean, are people not vulnerable enough when trying to transition jobs without every black web a-hole coming out of the woodwork to strike at that person's most vulnerable?
My previous position was not as advertised and a couple months in, there wasn't enough work to keep my position going so I was switched to another position. This was a couple months before Covid hit. A ton of people got laid off after that and I found my current job 15 minutes from home so sometimes it works out for the better.
aircooled said:
Probably different in your case, but I have found job descriptions rarely paint an entirely accurate description of what you end up actually doing.
That can be a good thing (for you and your employer) if you are allowed to define the role a bit, and of course bad if they don't.
Hell, 90% of the job ads anymore not only don't tell you anything about the job, if you don't know the company already you have to guess what they do.
nocones said:
When I was interviewing for my previous job in engineering I asked specifically about work hours and overtime and I was told I would get paid for every minute of overtime worked by the Engineering director. That was a lie. The last 2 years I worked there I averaged 75 hrs/week and had one week where I worked 110 hrs. The entire industry is built on expecting people to work unpaid overtime as a point of "pride in your job". Each person is loaded to about 50hrs/week before any emergent issue support comes up. So happy I left. It only took me 7 years to realize my mistake....
This is why I have now made it a policy to flat out refuse to work a salaried position. Somebody is going to get shafted, and it's rarely the employer.
