The real Grassroots Motorsports

Since I'm trying to get old and health problems have drastically altered my lifestyle, I've been looking around for a motorsports related hobby that still might be attainable for me. Last year I ran across a website for "cyclekarts". At first I just thought they were cute, but the more I looked the site over and saw the grins on the faces of the participants I realized that this must be a lot of fun. Road and Track even visited one of the events and drove the cars. The article that was written from this is quite humorous.

Have any of you heard of this or checked out the site? If anyone is interested in seeing it I'll try to find the site and post a link. Or you can google "An Introduction to Cyclekarting".

Have any of you seen the youtube videos of the motorized bicycle races held in Arizona. An anual event is called "The Death Race". This too, although relatively slow, looks like great fun.

It doesen't appear that either of these endeavors are intended to be taken all that seriously. I think the objective is to enjoy the friendly competition with some other crazies. I said they were relatively slow but either is fast enough to get a brain concusion or a broken bone. So I'd say that qualifies as motorsport.

Wonder if they'd let you show up at autocross in one.

(I would think so considering the normal karting)

I think there was a thread on here recently about those.

Feels a little canoe - ey.

I've wondered the same thing but they are mostly built with composite plywood and fiberglass. SCCA used to, and I suppose still does, have a rule about not using flamable materials. I recall many years ago that a plywood company designed, built, and entered a DSR out of plywood monocoque construction with a Saab Monte Carlo engine. The car looked like a wedge of cheese. Good question though. All of the tracks they show on the web site are dirt or gravel. That plus the skinny tires and high cg are what make it fun and exciting to the competitors. One of the pics. shows a guy in one of the cars modeled after a pre-war Alfa F1 car sliding sideways on two wheels while trying to negotiate a downhill 180. Interesting to note that the only helmets I saw were either leather or maybe a couple of vintage open face models.

In reply to Graefin10:

Canoe is a code word for spam. We weren't quite sure if it was spam or not. But welcome to the board.

poopshovel wrote: Feels a little canoe - ey.

Gosh! You are so cynical! Have you had a BM today?

Old thread http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/cyclekarts/9375/page1/

ohohoh this looks kinda fun

I was looking at the mechanics last time this came up, and it seemed they used some older and hard to find parts. An updated and easily found parts list could help the sports growth.

Just a clarification, the PBS plywood sports racer used a heavily modified 850cc engine out of a Fiat, not a SAAB Monte Carlo. Though SAAB engines were popular for many classes back then in the early seventies.

A little side loading ala drift won't taco those spoked wheels?

Dan

The cycle cart concept really needs to be used to build a bugatti type 35 replica (Yes, I know that I've said that before, but I REALLY love the this car. If I had known about a few years ago, I probably would have built a replica of it instead of my datsun.)

Yoshi thinks they're awesome as well.

I polled the wife and got her blessings to build one of these in the driveway. I think I'd go with rotary power.

I want to build a sprint car around an old 327 I have laying in the garage. Am I crazy?

I've thought about building one, but other than running around in my yard with it, I don't know what else I could do with it. Doubt I could autocross it, no clubs around here, etc.

But, I've got the wheels and tires from the old Yamaha dirt bikes, a few old riding mowers and go-karts. So it may happen some day.

Like you, I admire the grin factor.

looks like a good way to die.

93 Civic, thanks for the welcome.

RossD: yes they do use some rather hard to find parts. The wheels they say are getting hard to find, and the Cormet "torque converter" (looks like a cvt trans. to me) is no longer made. I think there's another one available from a go kart supply co. but I'm not really sure they have them.

914 driver: yea, you would think that the wheels wouldn't hold up but the web site says that the weakest link are the axle key ways, steering linkage, and cvt tranny wear.

JoeyM: I've seen pictures of at least 2 Bugattis that have been built. They are beautiful cars.

digdug18: Unfortunately you're right. Many of the participants don't even wear a helmet and there are a lot of pictures of them sliding the cars around the turns dirt track fashion. The tracks are lined with trees, rocks, parked cars, and people. However, not one word is said on the site about any injuries. I think that's one of the reasons that a lot was said about keeping it as casual fun. Also the reason that they won't publish a set of plans for the kart, just a set of specs. to go by. The thing is who of us hasn't tried to set a new lap record in one of the fun karts at the beach, lol.

I think building it with a simple Briggs & Stratton with a centrifigal clutch and chain setup (like a simple go-kart) would help with its popularity. Some locost type plans maybe...

foxtrapper, I agree with you. If there aren't any other people interested in building them you'd get bored with it pretty soon. I've been toying with another idea in a similar vein that might be more interesting to develope and might be accepted as a seperate class at both autocrosses and rally crosses.

The design parameters would be to keep it as inexpensive as possible, safe, a little faster than the cycle karts, and more adaptable to both dirt and pavement tracks. If the scca or local clubs approved it they might be welcomed to both types of racing events. That would bring some automatic interest around the country.

Design ideas: * Like the cycle karts, plywood/ fiberglass laminate construction would form most of the body/frame of the car. The shape would be somewhat like F500 or Ffirst. i.e. small formula car. The wheel base would have upper and lower limits to accomodate different heights of drivers. Roll over protection would be required as well as seat belts and shoulder harness. Helmets would be required. The sides, bottom, bulkheads, and a top section would form a box around the drivers comp, (although above the "top section" would be a foam/fiberglass laminate or lightweight aluminum section to form the exterior of the top and nose piece. Any type of front suspension could be used. Push rod suspension with multiple pushrod and coil over assy mounting points would allow the car to be easily adjusted for ground clearance and spring rate to accomodate dirt or pavement tracks. The rear suspension would have to be easily adjustable also but since it's simple but a bit more difficult to describe so I won't do it in detail now. * The wheels and tires would be the trailer tires and white "wagon wheels" for both dirt and pavement. Why? Because they're cheap and would last for years.
* I have two ideas for power. 1. spec engines, possibly two chinese built 80cc two strokes with the steel sleeved cylinder, expansion chambers with silencers, and the performance carburetors and air filters. The rear suspension would use swing arms made from a go kart axle cut in half. each engine would drive a wheel on the opposite side. Could this work? I think so by incorporating a quick adjustment to the throttle cables. They could be direct drive through a centrifugal clutch. Another spec. engine possibility is a Lifan brand engine of 125, 200, or 250cc. Probably a 250. These would have a trans. and a clutch. The ability to shift gears would make the driving exp. a bit more challenging and fun. One thing I'm not sure about is how to do the rear axle without having to use a diff. Could direct drive from the engine to the rear axle drive both rear wheels on pavement? It could of course, but would it be drivable in tight turns? I'm not sure. Ideas are welcome. I'm not crazy about the idea of driving one wheel with 250cc like the 6.5 hp cycle karts. Another possibility for power is an aircooled 250cc Japanese motorcycle engine. I checked e-bay to see how available they are and found several. I'd say that most of them in decent shape would have more power than the Lifan. They should be a bit more reliable than the Lifan but I asked about that on a forum for a "bobber" style motorcycle kit that uses one of the threee mentioned Lifan engines and all the responses I got said they were very reliable and there are a lot of those around the country. Many areas of the country have sizeable clubs that have group tours so they should know.

Graefin10 wrote: Design ideas: * Like the cycle karts, plywood/ fiberglass laminate construction would form most of the body/frame of the car. The shape would be somewhat like F500 or Ffirst. i.e. small formula car. The wheel base would have upper and lower limits to accomodate different heights of drivers. Roll over protection would be required as well as seat belts and shoulder harness. Helmets would be required. The sides, bottom, bulkheads, and a top section would form a box around the drivers comp, (although above the "top section" would be a foam/fiberglass laminate or lightweight aluminum section to form the exterior of the top and nose piece. Any type of front suspension could be used. Push rod suspension with multiple pushrod and coil over assy mounting points would allow the car to be easily adjusted for ground clearance and spring rate to accomodate dirt or pavement tracks. The rear suspension would have to be easily adjustable also but since it's simple but a bit more difficult to describe so I won't do it in detail now.

I dig it. Sounds fun. It would be simple enough to actually build, but potentially complex enough for someone with more experience to be interested.

Graefin10 wrote: * I have two ideas for power. 1. spec engines, possibly two chinese built 80cc two strokes with the steel sleeved cylinder, expansion chambers with silencers, and the performance carburetors and air filters. The rear suspension would use swing arms made from a go kart axle cut in half. each engine would drive a wheel on the opposite side. Could this work? I think so by incorporating a quick adjustment to the throttle cables. They could be direct drive through a centrifugal clutch. Another spec. engine possibility is a Lifan brand engine of 125, 200, or 250cc. Probably a 250. These would have a trans. and a clutch. The ability to shift gears would make the driving exp. a bit more challenging and fun.

I'd love to see a displacement limit, and open aside from that. With all the other variables in chassis/suspension fab, I don't see much reason to spec one specific engine.

Graefin10 wrote: One thing I'm not sure about is how to do the rear axle without having to use a diff. Could direct drive from the engine to the rear axle drive both rear wheels on pavement? It could of course, but would it be drivable in tight turns? I'm not sure. Ideas are welcome.

Make it a Morgan-esque 3 wheeler series. The fabricator could then use a properly shielded chain or belt drive to the single rear wheel. Or if desired, the bevel drive arm of a shaft driven motorcycle could be utilized.

Or for the 4 wheel set, why not use the differential from a FWD car. Pull the guts from whatever is small enough and has your desired rear end ratio, and house it in a little tube or box, and run a properly shielded chain from your motorcycle transmission to a sprocket where the input gear was (or perhaps just bolt it to the input gear directly?).

I'd love to see something like this start.

I always got the impression that this was something a half-dozen friends liked to do together, not a serious race series. Thus the lack of plans or rules.

Another semi-silly thought. Embrace the dirt and proclaim it an ATV.

Around here I can't ride my dirtbike hardly anywhere, but a 4 wheel atv I can ride in many of the parks. Not sure what's involved in creating my own cyclecart ATV, but this could be semi-silly fun if I could ride it on some of the milder trails.

One would certainly get plenty of attention!

It appears they come in flavors other than Bugatti.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autistrystudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cycleKar3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autistrystudios.com/blog/index.php/2010/01/project-idea-cyclekarts/&h=505&w=600&sz=91&tbnid=RYnYPY0sCi0btM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcyclekarts&zoom=1&q=cyclekarts&hl=en&usg=__eu30XMYE5GGA_sI899Lu98OjJXU=&sa=X&ei=MdiUTdLMIcjk0gGbkdD5Cw&ved=0CDEQ9QEwBg

BAMF: The reason I thought of air cooled instead of just a displacement limit is to keep everyone from trying to locate a 2011 Ninja watercooled 250. The reason I specified a plywood monocoque is because a few wood working tools are much less expensive than those needed for metal working. Also, build the tub and most of the body is complete also. Your idea would work fine though with just a weight min. and max. established. I also like the 3 wheeler idea but I felt that it would be easier to find a smooth field to make a track in than pavement. Let's face it, even local autocross locations have been drying up for quite a while now. I'm not sure how well a three wheeler would do on dirt. Of course a tractor tire could be mounted up, lol. I guess bringing up the possibility of running autoX and rallyX was just thinking of the possibility of what it could lead to.

The reason I presented this idea to the forum is to get others thoughts and opinions. My thinking is that if I decided to do it, plans and rules would be a good idea so that if a group wanted to have organized races they would all be on a level playing field.