The X in FRS is for extreme!

In case this went under the radar, Road&Track did a little opinion column on trying to buy a FRS. The summary is the sales people (yea plural) knew very little about the car, were lackadaisical with facts, and knowledge base was totally out matched by the buyer, who, by the way, was not the author of the article.

The article is here and actually sort of sad.

Well this is the local flyer fresh out of my mailbox.

Yep no favors. You'd think if you were going to have to sell an enthusiast car you should know something about it.

The0retical wrote: You'd think if you were going to have to sell an enthusiast car you should know something about it.

Normally, no, I don't think so. It's all about moving units. The guy who sold me my SE-R didn't know anything about it. The guy who sold us our Civic Si did, though, but we already knew him from the scene.

They should make an frx, that thing would be a hoot with the Subaru awd system in it.

Lancer007 wrote: They should make an frx, that thing would be a hoot with the Subaru awd system in it.

Too bad they won't risk WRX or STi sales to do it.

David S. Wallens wrote:

The0retical wrote: You'd think if you were going to have to sell an enthusiast car you should know something about it.

Normally, no, I don't think so. It's all about moving units. The guy who sold me my SE-R didn't know anything about it. The guy who sold us our Civic Si did, though, but we already knew him from the scene.

I had a huge soap box post but I'll shorten it.

I can sympathize with having to move the cars to make a profit, that's why the dealers are there. With that said the FRS is a halo enthusiast car. The pool of people that had the means, who Toyota spent a lot of time and money marketing the FRS to for the dealers, bought it right away. Now sales are stagnating, from my understanding anyway, and the car needs to be sold on its own merits, which most sales guys know nothing of. This means explaining why it's different than the TC, better than the heavier 370, and more deserving of attention than the MX-5.

Without doing that you end up with another failed light sports car offering up more circumstantial evidence that that market shouldn't exist.

I can't help but feel like that's the reason dealers want Tesla out of the direct to consumer game. Since every time the dealers botch a sale if hurts Toyota and the segment in general but has little to no blow back on the dealer. New cars aren't something that you want to screw up selling someone because they'll carry that brand stigma the rest of their lives. Just think about diesel cars in the US, Fiats having rust issues, or the stigma American made cars, not trucks, carried until a few years ago for example.

I wonder if we could get a track only 500hp FRXX. Of course you'd have to get Scion to hold it for you and own 3 Scions before that plus be selected by their crack sales team to own one.

//All this just so I could make fun of a marketing guy for a flyer hardly anyone will see in the Tuesday junk mail bundle.

I think the simple answer here is that the cars had a small market. The people who want them don't need a sales guy, they know about them and buy. They did. Now there are a bunch of cars... but not enough for volume sales... that no one wants to pay sticker or leave any profit in so there's zero incentive for a sales guy to try to move them.

The good news is that you can walk in and make a deal if you want the car. The bad news is... there really is no market for a small sporty car at a big dealership that moves 100 family trucksters on a good Saturday.

The0retical wrote: I wonder if we could get a track only 500hp FRXX.

Sure.

By one and have one of the few different shops around the country (that are doing these) swap an LSx into it.

Done.

I've never talked to a car salesperson that knew 1/10th what I did about the car I was looking at, even when it was mundane transportation. Years ago my wife (who knows something about cars but is far from an enthusiast) was test driving a grand cherokee and asked the sales guy who was riding shotgun if it was a "V or inline six." His answer was "um..pretty sure it's an inline V6." She looked at me in the rearview mirror and immediately turned the truck around. I asked her what happened as we got in our car to leave immediately afterward and she answered "I may not know much, but there's no way in HELL I'm buying a car from someone who doesn't know the difference between and inline 6 and a V6."

I love that girl....

ultraclyde wrote: asked the sales guy who was riding shotgun if it was a "V or inline six." His answer was "um..pretty sure it's an inline V6."

Maybe he thought he was in a Volkswagen :).

Why don't salesmen study their product? I don't know any other sales position where you can be so clueless about what it is that you're selling. Does it just not matter? Their whole job is selling cars, how can they not know about cars?

mazdeuce wrote: Why don't salesmen study their product? I don't know any other sales position where you can be so clueless about what it is that you're selling. Does it just not matter? Their whole job is selling cars, how can they not know about cars?

Because most people are so excited at the thought of being able to buy a new car they literally couldn't care less who they have to deal with to get it.

I had a salesperson when test driving a car that didn't know the difference between a tachometer and an odometer.

mazdeuce wrote: Why don't salesmen study their product? I don't know any other sales position where you can be so clueless about what it is that you're selling. Does it just not matter? Their whole job is selling cars, how can they not know about cars?

Because most sales folks, especially in male dominated industries such as cars, are arrogant SOBs who think they could sell a icecube to an Eskimo. It's amazing considering that the average new car costs more than $19,000. What's more interesting is that our economy is probably comprised of quite a few sales people who don't sell cars, and while they may be incredibly knowledgeable in selling farm equipment, printing equipment, or industrial equipment, when they walk into a dealer they simply want a truck with leather and big honkin engine and they won't pay a dime over MSRP.

In reply to PHeller:

Car salesmen have the same people skill set that strippers do. Sometimes they are very persuasive.

Also, I'd never buy a vehicle new for more than msrp. Market adjustments are a crock of E36 M3.

I have multiple people trying to get me into sales at a local multi franchise dealer. As I have always said, I know too much about cars to be a car salesman.

the guy selling cars has himself a job......

mazdeuce wrote: Why don't salesmen study their product? I don't know any other sales position where you can be so clueless about what it is that you're selling. Does it just not matter? Their whole job is selling cars, how can they not know about cars?

That was the other part of my rant. I don't have patience for ignorant sales people. I don't care if it's a TV or if it's a car. If you can't even tell me the basic differences between two multithousand dollar items I don't have time for you.

To the other point, Scion has 5 models. Toyota has 15 (leaving aside the various hybrid submodels.) That's not that many cars to know what what engine is in it, if it comes on manual, and which wheels motivate the car.

Hell I don't even want horsepower numbers I just want a salesman that can tell me which cars are designed to do what. I won't, and most normal people won't, crucify you for saying you don't know but you'd be happy to get the info for them when we get back, so long as you can match the car to the want well enough and provide enough information that you appear competent.

I was surprised that the Mazda salespeople up here could actually tell me that the i-eloop system was a capacitance system rather than a traditional hybrid system. So it's not as if it is all salesmen.

I love how one of the main reasons the Frizbee doesn't sell is a perceived lack of power, but they won't make a more powerful model because the regular one doesn't sell...

Any company that can afford to develop SEVEN different SUV models for its current lineup can afford to spend a little on improving a car that already exists and has an easily-defined deficiency.

On a semi-related note: did you know that base MSRP on a new Land Cruiser is $79,000 ?! Wholly berkwad, Batman!

The S and X keys are right next to each other...

GameboyRMH wrote: The S and X keys are right next to each other...

So where's the "proofread, you dumb berktard" key?

Duke wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: The S and X keys are right next to each other...

So where's the "proofread, you dumb berktard" key?

The history books I guess, nobody proofreads anymore

I've sometimes wondered how well a car dealership would do with no salespeople. Customers would walk in, there would be a board listing what's on the lot along with asking prices so they wouldn't have to physically walk around the lot to look through everything, you could get a key to test drive after letting the attendant record your driver's license info, and if you liked the car you found, you'd ring up the purchase at the cashier's office.

Most car salesmen I've seen appear to contribute nothing more than annoyance to the car buying experience, and if I had an option to go to a dealership that advertised they had zero salesmen, I'd be quite interested as long as the prices were reasonable.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

I agree 100% on this method. If I didnt have to listen to a line of crap about how safe this Corolla is or it has bluetooth I'd be one happy camper. When my girlfriend and I went to lease her new 2014 Corolla, all the guy kept saying was bluetooth! touch screen radio!. I wanted to know the difference between the ECO model and the NON ECO model. he had no idea they made an ECO model... and we wanted one in dark green, they had it, after I found it on their website to show them -_-

Edit: we ended up with an ECO model, and love it

Car enthusiasts represent such a small portion of the new car buying public that there really is no incentive to cater to them(us). Kinda weird when you think about it - imagine someone going into a camera store to buy a Leica rangefinder or a bike shop and buying an all-carbon Colnago when they really aren't that into photography or cycling. But it happens everyday with cars.

neon4891 wrote: I have multiple people trying to get me into sales at a local multi franchise dealer. As I have always said, I know too much about cars to be a car salesman.

This is my problem as well, I could tell you drive layout, power, and tested specifications on about anything......but that isn't what sells cars.

Hell, say there was a dealership and they had a bunch of compact cars in Base, Loaded, and Sporting submodels, you could have someone come in deadset on a loaded or sporting version, yet still buy a base model due to the color. My parents are now this way, they don't give a flying berkeley about anything unless it is Ford's Tuxedo Black*

*Granted, they still ask me sometimes about submodels and still seem to have taste. Hence the Titanium Fusion and the psd F350 that were bought last year....