Their ain't no middle ground!

Either you are a boy or you are a girl. Look down, what do you see? OK take your pants off first. Now what do you see?

If there's something there then you are of the male gender. If there's nothing there you are of the female gender, that is unless your wife keeps everything under lock and key.

Now how tough was that?

Apparently that's beyond the capabilities of some people. Sex is the root of all evil.

These poor kids, think of the abuse they will be getting in life!

Look Ma, no genitals!

They say what's good for the goose is good for the gander so why are the parents still playing at being either the mother or the father?

But as Stocker puts it: "If you really want to get to know someone, you don't ask what's between their legs."

Huh, and here I have been, all these years, thinking that was the only reason to want to get to know someone.

Stocker and Witterick say the decision gives Storm the freedom to choose who he or she wants to be. "What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious," adds Stocker, a teacher at an alternative school.

I like this quote because obviously a baby can make so many good decisions for itself.

it's not unheard of. Back in the 19th century, boys had long hair and wore dresses until about 7 when they got their first haircut.

when did girls start wearing pink

carguy123 wrote: Either you are a boy or you are a girl. Look down, what do you see? OK take your pants off first. Now what do you see?

Oh really?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html

Not to say that this kid has that sort of medical issue, but the attitude that many people harbor that it's flat out wrong and worthy of hate to be somewhere in between sexes causes these people a great deal of pain, and that's not really anything to be proud of.

Also, I sincerely hope the reason that you thought this story was relevant to this site is that all three of their kids are named after asian subcompact cars :).

moonbat said: ...Stocker, a teacher at an alternative school.

why do they so often seem inclined to teach others this stuff?

In reply to Josh:

That link just takes me back to this page.

Oh really? http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html Not to say that this kid has that sort of medical issue, but the attitude that many people harbor that it's flat out wrong and worthy of hate to be somewhere in between sexes causes these people a great deal of pain, and that's not really anything to be proud of. Also, I sincerely hope the reason that you thought this story was relevant to this site is that all three of their kids are named after asian subcompact cars :).

Genetically you are either one or the other, there ain't no middle ground.

If the kid didn't have a medical or mental issue before he/she does now.

The kids were named after cars? I'll have to go back and read it again. I get so upset with bad parenting that sometimes I must focus on the wrong things in life.

Kio? What car is that?

Clearly a portmanteau of Kia and Rio.

As long as I dont have to deal with these people, I dont care. Might as well raise the kids as rabbits as to not impart any of man's destructive behaviors.

Even Ernie can't believe it.

Josh wrote:

carguy123 wrote: Either you are a boy or you are a girl. Look down, what do you see? OK take your pants off first. Now what do you see?

Oh really? http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html Not to say that this kid has that sort of medical issue, but the attitude that many people harbor that it's flat out wrong and worthy of hate to be somewhere in between sexes causes these people a great deal of pain, and that's not really anything to be proud of.

the problem i have is that their 'socially progressive' parents are deficient to make such decisions on the matter on this, what should be an individual medical and psychological issue.

madmallard wrote:

Josh wrote:

carguy123 wrote: Either you are a boy or you are a girl. Look down, what do you see? OK take your pants off first. Now what do you see?

Oh really? http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html Not to say that this kid has that sort of medical issue, but the attitude that many people harbor that it's flat out wrong and worthy of hate to be somewhere in between sexes causes these people a great deal of pain, and that's not really anything to be proud of.

Isn't that what I said? the problem i have is that their 'socially progressive' parents are deficient to make such decisions on the matter on this, what should be an individual medical and psychological issue.

not really. you said there isn't a middle ground, when there is biologically. We know this to be true medically.

I'm just saying these parents aren't qualified to make such a determination, and are doing so out of their sense of social justice. Which is selfish, and dumb.

madmallard wrote: not really. you said there isn't a middle ground, when there is biologically. We know this to be true medically. I'm just saying these parents aren't qualified to make such a determination, and are doing so out of their sense of social justice. Which is selfish, dumb & STOOPID!.

Fixed it for you.

Growing up is hard enough before the little buggers learn some social skills, why make it harder on your kids than it has to be. It's not as if they didn't realize what they were doing to their kids.

And their ain't no middle ground, either you've got a penis or you don't. There ain't no "I've only got half a penis" position (sorry Wally I didn't mean to hurt your feelings).

carguy123 wrote: And their ain't no middle ground, either you've got a penis or you don't. There ain't no "I've only got half a penis" position (sorry Wally I didn't mean to hurt your feelings).

Medically, your assumption is categorically false. From the article I botched the link to, 1 in 2000 people born have some form of gender ambiguity. For years doctors have mostly attempted to "assign" a gender right away via medical procedures with the assumption that it's better for a child to have a clear gender identity than not, but often that leads to worse problems as the person's actual identity doesn't conform to the one chosen at birth. Maybe the problem isn't their genitals' (or brains') nonconformity to the rigid expectations of gender, but those rigid expectations themselves.

As mad_machine said, the idea that a child needs to be given a rigidly defined gender role from birth is relatively new, historically speaking. The real weirdness is that adult society's gender roles have been going in exactly the other direction over the last hundred years or so. We make sure we dress the little tykes in the right gender-defined clothing and colors, and give them the right gender-defined toys, just so we can turn around and tell them as teenagers that they can play any sport or have any job they want regardless of their gender. No wonder teenagers are so berkeleying confused all the time.

What possible problem could you have with this? It's not like they're deliberately trying to sissify their son or butchify their daughter. They're just not telling other people what gender their kid is. Otherwise as soon as you say "he's a boy" or "she's a girl," BAM! Out come the well meaning "gifts" of Li'l Suzy Housewife or Macho Man Cowboynator 3000 playsets, "for boys" and "for girls" storybooks, etc.

I don't see the problem with trying to insulate your kid from retarded gender stereotypes in his/her most formative years.

What's berkeleying stupid is the fact that this is a big news story and that people care about it.

Here's an idea, raise the child how you like, as long as it's "well," and then at 18, let them make the decisions they want. If Johnny wants to become Jenny, then, then berkeleying go for it. berkeley what everybody else thinks.

I just don't want to hear about it, because i don't give a E36 M3.

Jay wrote: I don't see the problem with trying to insulate your kid from retarded gender stereotypes in his/her most formative years.

Besides creating a cross-dresser in the making, absolutely it's fine.

In other news, I thought this youtube video applied (NSFW):

Show me your genitals

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

you have the choice to not listen if you don't want to.

the problem is, this kid doesn't have a choice except to be raised at the discretion of their parents. And in these parent's minds, raising them 'well' means an adherance to their sociopolitical world view on a matter more suited to medical and mental health advisory.

(@ HiTempGuy: )

(a) Refusing to rigourously segregate everything about your kid's life into "these are boys' things" and "these are girls' things" does not lead to cross-dressing later.
(b) What's wrong with being a cross-dresser? If that's your thing it ain't my business to tell you not to!

(@ Madmallard: )

We're talking about a BABY here. NO kid that age gets a choice in ANYTHING, for a very good reason. If you're too young to even have teeth yet, having a bunch of stupid stereotypes forced on you by supposedly well-meaning acquaintances is a lot less of a choice than being spared those stereotypes... Seriously the only thing this kid is "missing out on" is getting 'birthday boy' or 'birthday girl' written on his/her cake, which the parents will eat anyway because the baby isn't old enough to have cake. By the time the kid is old enough for it to make any difference whatsoever s/he will have started TELLING people "I'm a boy" or "I'm a girl"... assuming s/he waned to.

madmallard wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: you have the choice to not listen if you don't want to. the problem is, this kid doesn't have a choice except to be raised at the discretion of their parents. And in these parent's minds, raising them 'well' means an adherance to their sociopolitical world view on a matter more suited to medical and mental health advisory.

I got duped into thinking this thread was something far cooler.

As for the rest of your post, some people are unfit for the job of being parents. This ain't news.

tru dat