There's a major union riot in my town!

Toyman01 wrote: I can't for the life of me imagine why Boeing built a plant in SC.

Lets just hope it stays here .

stroker wrote: Longshoremen? Didn't Container Ships turn them into Dodos years ago?

Longshoremen are involved in the loading and unloading of anything off a ship. A friend of mine is one and works at one of the chemical tank farm port facilities in northern NJ.

spitfirebill wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I can't for the life of me imagine why Boeing built a plant in SC.

Lets just hope it stays here .

Not likely, considering the fact that Cessna is now building planes in China and shipping them here.

I give it about 10 years at the most before that plant is as empty as an old car factory in Michigan.

madmallard wrote:

Mazdax605 wrote: I like my union,but many may not. Union Proud IBEW!!!!!

Is this one of the unions that shuns anything over 40 hours a week for working?

No we welcome any amount of work,and OT is welcome with open arms,and wallets.

Snowdoggie wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I can't for the life of me imagine why Boeing built a plant in SC.

Lets just hope it stays here .

Not likely, considering the fact that Cessna is now building planes in China and shipping them here. I give it about 10 years at the most before that plant is as empty as an old car factory in Michigan.

i did not know we build old cars in Michigan. when did this start?

AngryCorvair wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I can't for the life of me imagine why Boeing built a plant in SC.

Lets just hope it stays here .

Not likely, considering the fact that Cessna is now building planes in China and shipping them here. I give it about 10 years at the most before that plant is as empty as an old car factory in Michigan.

i did not know we build old cars in Michigan. when did this start?

Better get your order in for a 1965 Corsa Turbo today.

Snowdoggie wrote:

AngryCorvair wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I can't for the life of me imagine why Boeing built a plant in SC.

Lets just hope it stays here .

Not likely, considering the fact that Cessna is now building planes in China and shipping them here. I give it about 10 years at the most before that plant is as empty as an old car factory in Michigan.

i did not know we build old cars in Michigan. when did this start?

Better get your order in for a 1965 Corsa Turbo today.

I smell a group buy coming!

Today's update: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_8ff454ae-dfed-11e0-a5e7-001cc4c002e0.html

6 more arrests of Local Union members for the protest the day before the riot and a Federal Judge rules the whole Union was in contempt. Fines are forthcoming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj6yFmOnlXw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Before you go "AH HA!!!" - yes, it's a romney ad. That doesn't make it any less true. This is how modern unions roll. There's no interest in 'protecting' employees (that's what labor laws are for.) They're here to shake down business owners and collect dues mafia style. No wonder president chicago loves them. I'd love to see these fatass mouth-breathers come to my town.

If you're proud to be a union worker, you're proud to do the least amount of work for the most money. Have fun sucking at life while the mafia gets rich convincing you your boss is the enemy.

Snowdoggie,

They're still arresting and reporting: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_75b8d090-e319-11e0-94e7-001cc4c03286.html

By the way, the "peaceful" 200-person "turn-in" at City Hall happened across the street from my office. All of the union guys showed up at once unannounced, blocked traffic, and brought bullhorns. It was not a peaceful attempt to surrender, it was a show of force meant to intimidate the law. Cops pulled the right move to let them huff and puff and then go away. I saw bats being carried from the cars (I work on the 4th floor and had a view of the whole street).

In reply to poopshovel:

Some of your points have way too much truth, and this particular situation is a shining example.

I'm inclined to believe the story, actually, but a Romney ad told entirely from the perspective of the business owner, whose word we're supposed to take for the idea that his employees aren't interested is a notch below that. This thread is impartial documentation of how badly unions can berkeley things up, why drag in something so clearly partial?

Yes, we have labor laws now. I don't think the fact that we have labor laws because we had unions is enough to justify the continued existence of unions. That justification is provided by the predictability of what would happen to those labor laws upon the dissolution of unions, and how difficult the benefitting parties would make it to re-establish the concept, assuming they're not oblivious to history.

I'm also... Strongly in disagreement with your summary of a union worker. Rather than give you a blow-by-blow of my dad's work history or those of some of his friends, I'll just point out that your case-by-case examples of lowlifes are not any more valid than my case-by-case examples of folks who worked hard their whole lives to manage a lower-middle-class income. I also know that the "encouragement" to consider a non-union solution is also not free of a thug element.

Reform for what unions can do, and a rationalization of some of the insanity of can't-pick-up-a-broom rules? Seems like a great idea (with the obvious and aggravatingly political concerns about giving an inch). Clearly there is some ridiculously lousy behavior under the current rules. Dissolution of the concept? That seems short-sighted at best in my opinion.

Perhaps this is all just a symptom, though, of the difference between my interpretation of some aspects of what a society is supposed to do and yours. One of the roles I believe in for government is to make sure that people aren't unduly abused by their employers. I'm under the impression (and aware that I may be spectacularly wrong) that this is an area where you feel that the free market and a spine should be just about all anybody needs. I do not remotely expect to change your mind, but I don't see much historical precedent for that approach working. FWIW, I don't see much historical precedent for any approach working consistently for a long period of time; rather each era attempts to fix some of the shortcomings of the last while inevitably introducing its own.

Sometimes history only seems to suggest that the best we can manage is to berkeley things up in an interesting fashion. I can't seem to think through any aspect of the human experience without eventually wanting to sigh, hang my head, and go work on my car.

ransom wrote: I can't seem to think through any aspect of the human experience without eventually wanting to sigh, hang my head, and go work on my car.

Troof

FWIW, I can clearly understand WHY unions were created. I cannot for the life of me understand WHY theyre are STILL around. Yes, we needed them, BADLY, around the turn of the last century. Yes, people were CHAINED to machines, yes, They were NOT GIVEN breaks to eat, let alone pee. Yes, they were FORCED to work around machines with little or sometimes no safety apparatus in place, for no money, sometimes under fear of personal injury for refusal. I get it. They did a great job of establishing what a safe, fair, and honest working condition was. But that was all they were intended to do: ESTABLISH, not MAINTAIN. Unions ESTABLISH the standard, Uncle Sam MAINTAINS it. Any group given power to maintain their own regulation is going to eventually exceed their boundaries for their own benefit (read: Greed and power). Feel free to extrapolate that relationship to apply to any group given any power ...coughpoliticianscough cough

Domestic Manufacturing can haz a sad

Ah hell, here we go again. The idiots decided to block the train again (which the courts have declared illegal and they have a protection order on it and the NLRB is already fining them for it) and one of the ding-bats arrested was the Local President himself. Freaking idiots!

http://tdn.com/news/local/article_23e53158-e47e-11e0-9edb-001cc4c002e0.html

Is it just me or does sitting on a train track sound like a REALLY stupid idea?

The paper is updating stories like crazy! (Some of the comments will make you want to move to another planet though...) Looks like the NLRB is going to charge the Local for the damages and the police overtime.

Wow, I just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0XkhQRxs1E

I'm sorry, but using your body as a blockade is extremely stupid.

This is a gem too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vjb0rXH8Ww&feature=related

Just. Wow.

ransom wrote: In reply to poopshovel: Some of your points have way too much truth, and this particular situation is a shining example. I'm inclined to believe the story, actually, but a Romney ad told entirely from the perspective of the business owner, whose word we're supposed to take for the idea that his employees aren't interested is a notch below that. *This thread* is impartial documentation of how badly unions can berkeley things up, why drag in something so clearly partial? Yes, we have labor laws now. I don't think the fact that we have labor laws because we had unions is enough to justify the continued existence of unions. That justification is provided by the predictability of what would happen to those labor laws upon the dissolution of unions, and how difficult the benefitting parties would make it to re-establish the concept, assuming they're not oblivious to history. I'm also... Strongly in disagreement with your summary of a union worker. Rather than give you a blow-by-blow of my dad's work history or those of some of his friends, I'll just point out that your case-by-case examples of lowlifes are not any more valid than my case-by-case examples of folks who worked hard their whole lives to manage a lower-middle-class income. I also know that the "encouragement" to consider a non-union solution is also not free of a thug element. Reform for what unions can do, and a rationalization of some of the insanity of can't-pick-up-a-broom rules? Seems like a great idea (with the obvious and aggravatingly political concerns about giving an inch). Clearly there is some *ridiculously* lousy behavior under the current rules. Dissolution of the concept? That seems short-sighted at best in my opinion. Perhaps this is all just a symptom, though, of the difference between my interpretation of some aspects of what a society is supposed to do and yours. One of the roles I believe in for government is to make sure that people aren't unduly abused by their employers. I'm under the impression (and aware that I may be *spectacularly* wrong) that this is an area where you feel that the free market and a spine should be just about all anybody needs. I do not remotely expect to change your mind, but I don't see much historical precedent for that approach working. FWIW, I don't see much historical precedent for *any* approach working consistently for a long period of time; rather each era attempts to fix some of the shortcomings of the last while inevitably introducing its own. Sometimes history only seems to suggest that the best we can manage is to berkeley things up in an interesting fashion. I can't seem to think through any aspect of the human experience without eventually wanting to sigh, hang my head, and go work on my car.

Why do you suggest the owner is not an honest upstanding person?

I am 100% behind your sentiments Poopie, these unions are criminals and thugs, they do nothing for the country, the customer or the community, they do not care about their members, just their stranglehold on the workers.

Guess which government who handed out a trillion $ in "stimulous" money made sure "every cent" went to union contracts. Who was being stimulated manually in that deal. By the way they are trying to give the unions another $500 billion as we speak.

I guess the rest of the country just doesn't need any help. Surely our Prez couldn't be wrong, just because he has unions affiliations going back through his entire career

Javelin wrote: Some of the comments will make you want to move to another planet

aussiesmg wrote:

ransom wrote: In reply to poopshovel: I'm inclined to believe the story, actually, but a Romney ad told entirely from the perspective of the business owner, whose word we're supposed to take for the idea that his employees aren't interested is a notch below that. *This thread* is impartial documentation of how badly unions can berkeley things up, why drag in something so clearly partial?

Why do you suggest the owner is not an honest upstanding person?

Where do you get that I called him anything else? I opened the paragraph about him by pointing out that I'm inclined to believe him...

My point was that that there are plenty of unbiased examples of this sort of idiocy without resorting to posting Romney ads. A Romney ad is not an impartial source, and the whole discussion is lessened by the source's implicit bias. It's like quoting the fox on the issues of henhouse guardianship; he may tell the truth, but that's just not a credible source.

My comments on the topic of unions are consistent with my stance that if we do away with them completely, labor laws will be unduly influenced by corporations, which I believe is very bad. I do believe that the current state of union behavior and the laws that allow it (noting that the spectacularly dumb behavior which started this thread is not legal and people are getting penalized for it) is insane and needs fixing.

It really sounds to me like I said something that didn't boil down to "kill unions" and you took that to mean "go team union! rah rah rah!", which suggests you didn't read the parts where I pointed out that I agree that the current arrangement is pretty broken.

Maybe these guys need a union, or at least some more cold bottled water.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917,0,7937001,full.story

Snowdoggie wrote: Maybe these guys need a union, or at least some more cold bottled water. http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917,0,7937001,full.story

I used to work in a tire warehouse during the summers here in Atlanta. No fans, just a water fountain. I didn't have to work there, I chose to work there. It sucked, it was hot, and the pay was lousy, but it was a job. Warehouse work is hot and it sucks, what did they expect? As far as employing temps, again, it is warehouse work. People come and go all the time.

slefain wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: Maybe these guys need a union, or at least some more cold bottled water. http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917,0,7937001,full.story

I used to work in a tire warehouse during the summers here in Atlanta. No fans, just a water fountain. I didn't have to work there, I chose to work there. It sucked, it was hot, and the pay was lousy, but it was a job. Warehouse work is hot and it sucks, what did they expect? As far as employing temps, again, it is warehouse work. People come and go all the time.

I did document review in a warehouse for over a year. A white collar job in a blue collar environment. They actually paid us a little extra above what the job would pay in an air conditioned office. Lots of people would quit after a week and they actually had trouble finding people to do the work, but nobody ever left there in an ambulance. I also did warehouse work during the summers when I was in college and knew how to keep cool.

The warehouse manager brought us bottled water and tried to get us to take salt tablets like his employees did. He brought in fans and tried to keep us cool any way he could, and Texas summers are worse that what you find in Pennsylvania. The professionals would be allowed to wear shorts and a t-shirt but the clerks and data entry people were forced by their temp agency to dress up when the temperature inside was over 110. That was crazy. Even the warehouse workers wore shorts when it really got hot.

Looks like Amazon screwed up here until OSHA stepped in.

Longshore union sues law enforcement over tactics http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130391448.html

rainydave wrote: Longshore union sues law enforcement over tactics http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130391448.html

If the train would just keep moving instead of stopping for these goons, the problem would take care of itself.

More arrests: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_448ea976-e572-11e0-9a7c-001cc4c03286.html

And the local version of the lawsuits: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_192b4cbc-e56d-11e0-9e58-001cc4c03286.html

Including, "Police have made about 135 arrests of ILWU members and their supporters over the past two months."