used oil ==> fuel

No, I'm not talking about Waste Veggie Oil.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110329095735.htm

That dirty motor oil that comes out of your car or truck engine during oil changes could end up in your fuel tank, according to a report presented March 29 at the 241st National Meeting & Exposition of the American Chemical Society (ACS) in Anaheim, California. It described development of a new process for recycling waste crankcase oil into gasoline-like fuel -- the first, they said, that uses microwaves and has "excellent potential" for going into commercial use. "Transforming used motor oil into gasoline can help solve two problems at once," said study leader Howard Chase, Professor of Biochemical Engineering at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom. "It provides a new use for a waste material that's too-often disposed of improperly, with harm to the environment. In addition, it provides a supplemental fuel source for an energy-hungry world."

The article is a year and a half old, but I just heard about it....I hope this one works.

"too-often disposed of improperly"

I find that at least somewhat hard to believe. Companies get paid for their waste oil. Thus why you can drop off your used oil at parts stores for "free". Used oil is already refined and typically sold as fuel oil for heat and other uses, so this is a nice additional refinement option, but I don't see it creating much change.

I guess I just don't buy the argument that most oil is currently just being dumped, when it already has a commercial value.

A guy at my dads work was really cheap and would mix half used motor oil and half gasoline and put it into his ratty old 300sd mercedes. Someone beat them to it.

We get paid for the tanker to show up and haul off our used oil. A majority gets used in Naval ships and Cargo ships as fuel. They switch over to the "waste" fuel at 10 miles out (I think).

xflowgolf wrote: "too-often disposed of improperly" I find that at least somewhat hard to believe.

You're probably right. That wasn't the thing that interested me. I'm just kind of a fan of the alt. fuel thing. There are two projects that I've thought long and hard about:

1) A flat black model T replica powered by a Waste veggie converted VW rabbit drivetrain.

2) an ethanol burning studebaker lark. (local rumor has it that back in the day the FL state troopers and revenuers used undercover larks as pursuit vehicles when chasing 'shine runners coming over the line from GA. That's why I think there would be some fun irony to an alcohol burning Lark.)

Neither one of these will probably ever happen. I do know someone with an unrestored studebaker sitting in a field, but it is a hawk. He's also told me he won't sell it to me.

You'll find all kinds of people on the net saying how WMO will ruin your injection pump, cylinder walls, luck with the ladies and the like, but there are just as many people saying the same thing about WVO and I have almost 80K on WVO so far. I would never do it though. I filter my veggie oil down to 0.5 microns, that's pretty dang fine. But, if anything does get by, it's just food particles. I'd hate to have a small piece of metal to get by my filter There's also the issue of the solvents and such that are in the engine oil. I can't filter that stuff out. I'm not saying you'll ruin your engine, it's just not worth it to me.

You guys ever heard of Thermal Depolymerization? No? Well then, to Google you go!!! Wait... Lemme save you 20 seconds...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

http://thermaldepolymerization.org/

http://www.changingworldtech.com/

pity the company filed for chapter 11.....you would think the rising prices of oil would make it economically viable.

[Wonders if owner/CEO got to big for their britches and decided to use the company's money to buy himself a veyron as a company car.]

JoeyM wrote: pity the company filed for chapter 11.....you would think the rising prices of oil would make it economically viable. [Wonders if owner/CEO got to big for their britches and decided to use the company's money to buy himself a veyron as a company car.]

Yup. LOL Here's what I think would be a great use of the system. Take all the trash that goes to the landfill and divert all the useful stuff to the facility to convert. Use the fuel for city/county vehicles and sell off the rest. Lots of natural gas produced can run the city vehicles and the light crude can be sent off to be refined. Not only are you doing the ultimate recycling, but you're also helping to develop a new technology and creating new jobs in a new field. Pretty much a win-win in my mind.

Our county landfill is supplying their own electricity by burning the methane from the garbage.

DrBoost wrote: You'll find all kinds of people on the net saying how WMO will ruin your injection pump, cylinder walls, luck with the ladies and the like, but there are just as many people saying the same thing about WVO and I have almost 80K on WVO so far. I would never do it though. I filter my veggie oil down to 0.5 microns, that's pretty dang fine. But, if anything does get by, it's just food particles. I'd hate to have a small piece of metal to get by my filter There's also the issue of the solvents and such that are in the engine oil. I can't filter that stuff out. I'm not saying you'll ruin your engine, it's just not worth it to me.

How about the exhaust your make is really, really bad? Most people who do conversions don't have anything for exhaust emissions on their vehicles....

For the OP- pretty cool, but two things- oil can already be cracked to make smaller HC's, and used motor oil isn't wasted- it's either recycled or used.

My friend's dad used to run straight used motor oil in his M1008 CUCV in the summer. It needed a longer glow time and would run rough till it warmed up, but always started. Stank and smoked really bad though. Worse than usual.

iceracer wrote: Our county landfill is supplying their own electricity by burning the methane from the garbage.

Ours does the same....they not only use that electricity for lighting, but also to power the water recirculation pumps to keep the organic matter in the dump moist so it continues to rot and produce methane. The recirculation is key....by reusing the water, they keep any nasty things that leech into the water in the dump.

around here, most auto repair shops use their waste oil to heat the place in the winter and they are more than happy to take your oil off your hands.

there are plans online that show how some hippies in the early 80's figured out how to make an old water heater into a clean burning heater that uses about a quart of drain oil an hour and heats a whole house..

novaderrik wrote: there are plans online that show how some hippies in the early 80's figured out how to make an old water heater into a clean burning heater that uses about a quart of drain oil an hour and heats a whole house..

What a disparaging way to refer to MotherEarthNews.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1978-09-01/Mothers-Waste-Oil-Heater.aspx

alfadriver wrote:

DrBoost wrote: You'll find all kinds of people on the net saying how WMO will ruin your injection pump, cylinder walls, luck with the ladies and the like, but there are just as many people saying the same thing about WVO and I have almost 80K on WVO so far. I would never do it though. I filter my veggie oil down to 0.5 microns, that's pretty dang fine. But, if anything does get by, it's just food particles. I'd hate to have a small piece of metal to get by my filter There's also the issue of the solvents and such that are in the engine oil. I can't filter that stuff out. I'm not saying you'll ruin your engine, it's just not worth it to me.

How about the exhaust your make is really, really bad?

Are you talking WVO or WMO?

foxtrapper wrote:

novaderrik wrote: there are plans online that show how some hippies in the early 80's figured out how to make an old water heater into a clean burning heater that uses about a quart of drain oil an hour and heats a whole house..

What an accurate way to refer to MotherEarthNews. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1978-09-01/Mothers-Waste-Oil-Heater.aspx

FTFY.

DrBoost wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

DrBoost wrote: You'll find all kinds of people on the net saying how WMO will ruin your injection pump, cylinder walls, luck with the ladies and the like, but there are just as many people saying the same thing about WVO and I have almost 80K on WVO so far. I would never do it though. I filter my veggie oil down to 0.5 microns, that's pretty dang fine. But, if anything does get by, it's just food particles. I'd hate to have a small piece of metal to get by my filter There's also the issue of the solvents and such that are in the engine oil. I can't filter that stuff out. I'm not saying you'll ruin your engine, it's just not worth it to me.

How about the exhaust your make is really, really bad?

Are you talking WVO or WMO?

Not many people who do WVO conversion have emissions controls, so that's what I'm harping on. Great, you use less fuel, at what detriment to the environment? WMO used in diesels is a totally different animal, unless it's already burning the very, very dirty bunker fuel.

Coincidentaly, I saw a tank truck labeled "Used Oil Pickup" this morning.

Why harp on the lack of emission equipment when there was none to begin with? Very few “conversions” are carried out on vehicles that have any emissions to begin with. Of those that are, I’ve known of none that have included removing any emissions controls. As far as the detriment to the environment, I don't require any off-shore, or on-shore drilling for my fuel. My fuel is renewable and cleans the air as it's growing (becoming fuel). And if it’s spilled, it biodegrades. But that’s just me talking, here’s information from the folks that have actually done the studies to back up what they say:
“On-road data collected on a 1981 Volkswagen Vanagon suggested simultaneous NOx, CO and PM reduction while running on waste vegetable oil compared to petroleum diesel. Laboratory data collected on a 2002 Volkswagen Golf shows that waste vegetable oil yielded consistenly lower NOx emissions than petroleum diesel fuel, while CO and PM emissions have increased. (Both portable, on-board monitoring systems – OEM-2100 Montana System and SEMTECH-D – and laboratory instruments were used for measurements.) On-road data on a 2003 Volkswagen Jetta also suggests significant NOx reduction when running on waste grease.

Compared to biodiesel, waste vegetable oil is inexpensive, easily obtainable, and appears to yield lower NOx emissions than both petroleum diesel and biodiesel. PM data is inconclusive, but it appears possible that any potential PM increases might be easily remedied by exhaust aftertreatment devices.”
The collected date while driving on the road and found

And

You’ll notice the greatest gain was 3% NOx, but a drastic reduction in CO and PM. All that with no emissions equipment!
There was some lab testing as well, naturally the results were a bit different. Wouldn’t be the first time lab results didn’t match the real-world.

This information was taken from http://www.buffalobiodiesel.org/svo_emissions.pdf

You posed the question “Great, you use less fuel, at what detriment to the environment?” I’ll ask you then, what is the detriment to the environment from my recycling veggie oil? I’ll ask also, why is burning WMO “a totally different animal” from WVO?

In reply to DrBoost:

Well, had you bought a gas engine from the same time period, you would be producing a lot less HC and NOx. Particularly NOx. Yet you pretend that you are doing the environment a favor by not drilling.

While it's great that you reduce the use of fresh oil, with worse smog, what's the point? You drive some 80's vehicle, yes?

FWIW, those emissions numbers you post are bad. Very very bad. Especially for the very easy test they ran. The current new car puts out about 0.05 g/NOx and HC's, and under 0.01 g/PM, running an actual FTP, and aged to be at the full useful life of the vehicle. So you are about 20 new cars. Yay.

WMO has a lot heavier HC's in it, which means it's burns with more PM than WVO, and that does not account for anything else that's in the oil- some of it intentional, like phosphorus. I'm not sure if I really want to breath phosphorus in a gasious verison.

If you want to be good for the enviornment, do it with a proper set up. Don't pretend that some 80's conversion is better since you burn corn oil. If you do it for the sake of being cheap- whatever. If you do it to be "green"- I am the first to call you on that BS. That's far, far from green.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to DrBoost: Well, had you bought a gas engine from the same time period, you would be producing a lot less HC and NOx. Particularly NOx. Yet you pretend that you are doing the environment a favor by not drilling.

In reply to alfadriver: So you are saying a diesel has more HC and NOx than a gas car? Wow man, you are on the cutting edge of knowledge there. And you contend that I'm not doing the environment a favor, but anyone else would agree that drilling (and the resultant spills and such) are not good for the environment. There's no drilling for my fuel, and any spills aren't environmentally harmful.

alfadriver wrote: While it's great that you reduce the use of fresh oil, with worse smog, what's the point? You drive some 80's vehicle, yes?

Maybe you can educate me. With significantly lower NOx, CO, and PM where's the increased smog coming from? Did I read that report wrong? Or are you still comparing a diesel engine to a gas one? If so, your soapbox is in the wrong place. And no, my car is not from the 80's, but that's just a fact that would confuse the argument.

alfadriver wrote: FWIW, those emissions numbers you post are bad. Very very bad. Especially for the very easy test they ran. The current new car puts out about 0.05 g/NOx and HC's, and under 0.01 g/PM, running an actual FTP, and aged to be at the full useful life of the vehicle. So you are about 20 new cars. Yay.

Oh, so not only are you comparing diesel (or WVO) to gas, but you are comparing a 1981 diesel to a 2013 gas car? Are you saying we should all be driving the latest, most efficient and clean technology? Do you tow your electric Alfa to the races with an electric F-150, both powerd by solar cells reclaimed from calculators? Yes, the VW that was measured pollutes. But it still runs. Some folks won't crush a car that is still good transportation so they drive them. In this case, by using WVO they are reducing emissions, as long as you compare apples to apples that is.

alfadriver wrote: WMO has a lot heavier HC's in it, which means it's burns with more PM than WVO, and that does not account for anything else that's in the oil- some of it intentional, like phosphorus. I'm not sure if I really want to breath phosphorus in a gasious verison.

I am not arguing with you here. I don't run WMO.

alfadriver wrote: If you want to be good for the enviornment, do it with a proper set up. Don't pretend that some 80's conversion is better since you burn corn oil. If you do it for the sake of being cheap- whatever. If you do it to be "green"- I am the first to call you on that BS. That's far, far from green.

What is the proper setup? Enlighten me please? I had no idea I was doing it all wrong. How many cars have you "converted" to WVO since I'm not sure of the exact number. Again you make assumptions based on your opinion of me (and others) that don't hold water. My car is not from the 80's, I'm not doing it to be green, and your version of green is different than most folks and I'd venture that you don't even measure up to your ideals.

BTW, you do know that a "conversion" is simply adding a second fuel system upstream of the IP and a branch of the cooling system to heat the oil? The only thing that's changed is the rubber hoses. If there is emissions equipment in place, it's left in place. In effect here, you are attacking people that chose to drive older cars since you compare the numbers with a new car. Sorry, but that's a pretty high horse you are on there.

How did that guy measure the gases in the exhaust? I think you'd need a dynamic test to get good measurements.

If diesels were inherently cleaner than gas engines we wouldn't have to use urea injection and particulate filters to bring diesel exhaust into compliance with modern emission standards. I'd believe that diesels running WVO will be cleaner than straight diesel but still pollute more than a gas powered catalysed car.

benzbaronDaryn wrote: How did that guy measure the gases in the exhaust? I think you'd need a dynamic test to get good measurements. If diesels were inherently cleaner than gas engines we wouldn't have to use urea injection and particulate filters to bring diesel exhaust into compliance with modern emission standards. I'd believe that diesels running WVO will be cleaner than straight diesel but still pollute more than a gas powered catalysed car.

Click on the link to see the testing method, and yes, diesels will pollute more than a gas car.

In reply to DrBoost:

Start with a diesel post 2000. That would be a far "greener" solution.

Yes, it's very much apples-oranges, but the people who get 80's benzes or other old vehicles pretend that they are doing something really great for the enviornment, just by burning 10% less fuel, but since the gas emissions are 20x higher, the net result it a LOT worse. THAT IS MY PROBLEM. 80's cars converted to WVO for environmental reasons. Total BS. You really think that the small amount of gas you keep from being drilled (and it's effects) is offset by your gasious emissions, I very, very much disagree with that.

If you want to stand on "I'm a cheap bastard, so I want to burn free oil"- go for it.

But if you want to barely claim that it's something that's good for the enviornment, you are very, very wrong.

As for the increased SMOG- where? Most places in the US, smog has gone down, just not as low as some think it should be. Europe has a smog problem- but they also have diesel that is 1 euro cheaper (or has been) so there's a ton of pre-emissions diesels running around, as well as more lax standards for diesel.

Just call yourself cheap, and be happy that you are cheap. You are not being environmentally friendly.