Way to go Joe

Curmudgeon wrote: Arpaio said if the conditions were good enough for the troops in Iraq, then they were good enough for the prisoners. Makes sense to me. I'm not advocating a return to the days of the dungeons, but when someone breaks the law bad enough to require incarceration then it shouldn't be easy. I wouldn't half mind seeing the chain gangs come back. The thing about the chain gangs was, not only did road maintenance get done but those who saw what was happening couldn't help but think about how they did not want to become part of it. When I was a kid we'd see those guys chopping blackberry vines in the ditches when it was 95 degrees outside and we all were 100% convinced that was NOT where we wanted to wind up. Now kids walk around with their pants hanging off their asses trying to emulate recently released felons. Am I the only one who sees the connection? The shame of being on the chain gang was a powerful deterrent to not do something dumb that would put a person back on them. Now it's cool to go back in, you ain't 'hard' till you have been in the slammer multiple times. Rappers glorify prison, you don't have 'cred' till you have a rap sheet that shows time.

I agree with this. Many of the prisons these days spoil criminals and give them far to cushy of a life style. I have known people that have purposefully committed crimes so that they would be locked up because it was an easier life than they had on the outside. These days it seems everyone thinks all these violent criminals and the like need a hug and therapy. So what do they do? They work the system and make it work for them.

On a side topic of another "Joe" in Arizona. A political hopeful from Ohio nick named Joe the Plumber was giving a speech in Arizona and said that we need to actually put up a complete fence on the US/Mexico border and then make an announcement anyone caught crossing would be shot and then actually do it.

Funny thing is someone that I was discussing this with pointed out it may actually save lives every year. There are hundreds of bodies of illegals found in the desert every year and I am sure there are more that the remains are never found. The person I was talking to said that more than likely after the first few people tried to cross and were actually shot there would be a dramatic drop in illegal entry into the country through the border. It was also pointed out this is the policy Mexico has to its southern border with Guatemala.

rebelgtp wrote: I have known people that have purposefully committed crimes so that they would be locked up because it was an easier life than they had on the outside.

seems to be the trend around here too

that's sad, just berkeleyin' sad

alfadriver wrote: You guys are funny. Scream about the that it's bad that people are willing to sacrifuce liberty for safety, and how bad that is. But when it's someone else's liberty, it's ok to sacrifice that for your safety. Hypocracy at it's best. You must all sleep well at night.

alfadriver wrote: You guys are funny. Scream about the that it's bad that people are willing to sacrifuce liberty for safety, and how bad that is. But when it's someone else's liberty, it's ok to sacrifice that for your safety. Hypocracy at it's best. You must all sleep well at night.

WTF? alfa, generally you make good sense (even if we don't always agree) but this?

Two and a half weeks ago a 15 y/o girl who was one of my daughter's classmates disappeared from her mother's house. The mother's boyfriend refused to answer routine questions and duct tape with the girl's blood and hair on it was found not only in his house but in a junkyard across the street. No he has not been convicted, but if he is I will gladly lock his ass up and destroy the key if it means my daughter is safe.

berkeley his liberty; since he uses it to kill people (he is also being questioned in connection with the disappearance of a 28 y/o woman a couple of years ago) obviously he has no concept of the proper use of that liberty and cannot be trusted with it.

Several years ago I was a witness in a murder trial where the perp beat an 86 y/o woman to death with a toilet tank lid. I saw the evidence. I was part of that evidence; I gave a deposition describing an earlier incident where he had tried to force his way into her house but was scared off. He came back about two weeks later and finished the job. He was damn sure correctly deprived of his liberty.

If I were to do something that heinous, I'd lose my liberty as well.

fasted58 wrote:

rebelgtp wrote: I have known people that have purposefully committed crimes so that they would be locked up because it was an easier life than they had on the outside.

seems to be the trend around here too that's sad, just berkeleyin' sad

Charles Manson was alleged to have said that prison was the only home he had ever known. In 'Helter Skelter', Vincent Bugliosi said it was not out of the realm of possibility that Manson had committed his crimes so that he would never have to leave prison again.

I happen to not be opposed to revamping the prison systems in the country to make them a bit less hospitable. I don't care about pink underwear.

That doesn't make this guy any less of a complete and total E36 M3.

So he's a E36 M3 because the prisoners do not do easy time?

I think I'd rather live outside under the sky than in a place like Graterford. Are people under the impression that it is cushy living in a cage with no windows?

Joe is a power hungry fascist though. berkeley him.

I think what Alfa was referring to was that Arpaio was not targeting out-and-out criminals for corruption, but political rivals. He disagreed with their opinion (mostly on the topic of race relations) and therefore was trying his hardest to dig up dirt on them. It's one thing to get the bad guys, it another to say "I don't like the way you talk, and I'm gonna get you out of office."

"The Justice Department accused Arpaio of engaging in "unconstitutional policing" by unfairly targeting Latinos for detention and arrest, and retaliating against critics."

So we could equate this with government targeting (profiling) domestic terrorists because they spout hate speech and violent anti-government plots.

Retaliation against critics? Heh. He needs to meet Jakie Knotts here in SC for an education in REAL retaliation.

Something else to consider: people do not like getting caught breaking the law. They will retaliate against the cop. Happened here several years ago, a state legislator got stopped for speeding, told the cop (basically) 'do you know who I am?', the cop said yeah but you are getting a ticket anyway. The legislator got hold of the sheriff in that county and tried to have the deputy fired. It backfired big time, the sheriff called the newspapers.

So here's the del: Arpaio's critics are very likely people who have done time in his jails and of course the first thing they do when they get out is holler about how inhumane the jails are because they had to eat bologna sandwiches, wear pink underwear and couldn't watch Jerry Springer on cable TV in an air conditioned building. Screw 'em. If they hadn't broken the law they wouldn't have been in the pokey in the first place, so I don't wanna hear it.

Curmudgeon wrote: So he's a E36 M3 because the prisoners do not do easy time?

No he is piece of E36 M3 for stuff like this.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/12/04/critics_tough_sheriff_botched_sex_crime_cases/?page=full

Or this.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-08-05/news/dog-day-afternoon/full

Or this

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/ninth-circuit-court-appeals-orders-sheriff-arpaio-fix-unconstitutional-conditions-m

The ACLU proved at the 2008 trial that the sheriff routinely abused pre-trial detainees at Maricopa County Jail by feeding them moldy bread, rotten fruit and other contaminated food, housing them in cells so hot as to endanger their health, denying them care for serious medical and mental health needs and keeping them packed as tightly as sardines in holding cells for days at a time during intake.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: A whole busload of people saw him do this. Give him a fair trial and then hang him.

Dude's crazy, he was professionally diagnosed with schizophrenia after the fact and also before IIRC. Is a death sentence what he deserves?

I'm sure his victim didn't agree with his life sentence.

93EXCivic wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: So he's a E36 M3 because the prisoners do not do easy time?

No he is piece of E36 M3 for stuff like this. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/12/04/critics_tough_sheriff_botched_sex_crime_cases/?page=full Or this. http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-08-05/news/dog-day-afternoon/full Or this http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/ninth-circuit-court-appeals-orders-sheriff-arpaio-fix-unconstitutional-conditions-m

The ACLU proved at the 2008 trial that the sheriff routinely abused pre-trial detainees at Maricopa County Jail by feeding them moldy bread, rotten fruit and other contaminated food, housing them in cells so hot as to endanger their health, denying them care for serious medical and mental health needs and keeping them packed as tightly as sardines in holding cells for days at a time during intake.

First story is from 2004, eight years ago, and from the tone (the guy drops the f bomb a time or two) it seems to be a blog. Second one is current time, the guy calls himself 'The Feathered Bastard'. So I'm going to go with these are op ed pieces, not factual reporting. (Although the first one, if it actually went down that way, should have his department brought to task for that. I didn't see a follow up story.)

The ACLU piece reinforced what I said earlier: if it's good enough for our troops in Iraq it's good enough for the prisoners. If they are 'packed like sardines' into holding cells, well maybe it's time to look at the other side of the coin: there's rampant lawbreakers and he is doing his best to do the job he was elected for: geting miscreants off the street.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Except that the prisoners mentioned in the ACLU article were not convicted yet.

True. They were in holding cells. I suppose they should get chaise lounges and hookers feeding them grapes?

Holding cells are not nice places. I know because I was in the drunk tank once many moons ago (no, it wasn't a DUI).

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Not feeding them rotten food would something probably worth while. I personally believe they should bring back chain gangs but he has taken things a step too far IMO.

Curmudgeon wrote: So he's a E36 M3 because the prisoners do not do easy time?

Putting convicted prisoners outside in pink underwear, as controversial as it is, is the kind of thing I can support. Some other things he did, not so much, but then I rarely agree with anyone about 100% of the things they do, and Joe isn't my sheriff, so it really doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

No, he strikes me as E36 M3 because of what I've seen of his personality. I just don't like the man. He seems too authoritarian and also seems to take a guilty-until-proven-innocent stance.

There's only anecdotal evidence for the rotten food claim.

Go to page 65 to begin the section on jail food and 71 for the actual findings: http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/prison/graves_v_arpaio_findingsoffact.pdf

There's some information in there which says the jail system receives donated food and it has been necessary to discard some due to spoilage. There were also small rocks mixed in with potatoes. Hell, that's happened to me. Last night at the BBQ place I hit a small chunk of bone in my 'cue.